Twinky

Hmm. Going from Van Wert to New Knoxville is about an hour. They delivered the first load at 1.30pm. Presumably unloaded the van and took some of the heavier stuff to locations such as sitting rooms, bedrooms, etc. Had a break for a meal, no doubt, then set off and loaded some more stuff. An hour to travel to VW, then load up and drive back (another hour), to arrive at 10.30pm. Allowing for travel time, that leaves 7 hrs to unload, eat/rest, and repack in VW. I have shifted a lot of stuff in my time: my own and other people's stuff. A 3-bed house-load, van packed with stuff, can be unloaded by only two people in an hour; a little longer to load up. Less time, of course, with more people - which the implication is, in the excerpt. So: how much stuff had they got? What happened to "travel light"? (Or maybe, "travel light" came about because of the huge amount of junk they'd accumulated that they didn't need? ) Or maybe, even more -ishly ... ... were the men were busy keeping out of the way of the fellowship? Heck, perhaps even then they realised how boring "fellowship" had become. (I'd better go and play with my cats before I have any more naughty ideas, LOL)

Yeah, I wondered that too, T-Bone. I wondered if it were a contribution towards the expenses of some of the overseas students from Africa. When I was in rez, I seem to recall that a couple of them (from poor parts of Africa) got "scholarships" - ie, they didn't have to contribute the amount required from in-rez Corps every semester. Just a waiver of fees - don't know if their airfares, etc, were also paid or contributed to. And I do know that some money had been sent to help in Zaire. How much and how often I have no idea. But in any event, we're talking late 90s/early 00s - not right at the start of the ministry.

People here might be interested in the following, from the local church newsletter this week: The October SPCK [Society for Promoting Christian Knowledge] Book of the Month: "Reformation Myths" by Rodney Stark. 31 October 2017 marks 500 years since Martin Luther nailed his 95 Theses to the door of the Wittenberg Castle church. Reformation Myths: Five centuries of misconceptions and (some) misfortunes is an entertaining and enlightening exposé of over-inflated claims about the Reformation and what it has done for us. https://www.amazon.co.uk/Reformation-Myths-Centuries-Misconceptions-Misfortunes/dp/0281078270/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1508543962&sr=1-1&keywords=reformation+myths I haven't read it yet but it might be a good read.

@T-Bone - "sticks" are "twigs" that are no longer connected to the root. They are twigs where the leadership has left HQ. No life in a stick. No nourishment from the root. Just dry. So, where a whole bunch of people had left because they followed their region leader when he left/was kicked out, then those twigs became sticks. If those R&R people had been running "twigs" or fellowships, those fellowships would automatically be designated "sticks" when their leader was M&A'd. Perhaps this is an expression from after your time. LCM used it a lot and was always jibing at "sticks."

You rub two "sticks" together.

Only slightly ... WW's post led me to take a peek at their website, not a place I visit very often. And their theme for the coming year? "For the 2017-2018 ministry year, as we celebrate seventy-five years of Biblical research, teaching, and fellowship, our focus will be The Word of God Is the Will of God." How very original.

Doncha love the "benefits of the class" - Learn how to: Get true peace in your life Know with certainty that you are going to heaven Develop a knowledge of the absolute goodness of God Know what happens when people die Enjoy reading the Bible Strengthen family relationships How to win in this life Hmm. If Jesus [who's he?] is a role model for "winning" "in this life" - the prize of crucifixion isn't one that would attract many people. Whoever said we would win in this life? Chapter and verse please! As to "Know with certainty that you are going to heaven" and "Know what happens when people die" - I know what the Bible says and what I understand and believe; but these "benefits" are still speculative. People don't come back from heaven (wherever or whatever that is) or after they've died, to tell us. We have a glorious future ahead of us - but we don't really know what it is going to be like. It will be different from this life, however, and beyond our wildest imaginings. I would say that all of the other things mentioned happen OUTSIDE TWI - and further, that any peace you have in your life now, or understanding of the goodness of God, or enjoyment in reading the Bible, and decent family relationships, will ALL BE SHATTERED BY TWI. And whoever put this poster together doesn't understand that they don't need to repeat the "how to" in the final benefit. They forgot to mention the charge, sorry donation, required for this "class series," too. Don't think I'll be in a hurry to sign up for this. (Runs away very fast.)

That's the important thing about looking back. What happened? Why? How can (I) prevent this happening (to me) again? We will always come up against "red flags." Some we have to view with caution: proceed forward warily. Others definitely mean DO NOT PROCEED. Which is which? And how do we proceed? What do we do to stop getting into similar dangerous situations? How do we respond to red flags, now? At work? When we see something happening in our neighbourhood? In many cases, our friends and families warned us - and we didn't listen. How do we warn our own friends and families of dangerous situations that they might be wandering into? It doesn't mean being suspicious of everyone and everything. It does mean being vigilant (roaring lions bearing red flags are everywhere!). And it definitely means SPEAKING UP and "whistleblowing." Which is not easy when one is in a position of subservience to someone with power or authority, however it comes, over one's life.

You could have a point there, Spec.

Grace, a lot of the content of those Birth to Corps papers was used to manipulate the Corps one way or another, and to ascerrtain and exploit vulnerable young women. If someone disclosed an abusive (esp sexually) background - hey presto, VPW knew which buttons to press. No doubt others also used these papers this way, if they'd been granted access. But note these papers were written in the second in-rez year, that is, after some years of mental pressure to conform whilst in rez etc. Papers from beaten down people. Remind me of the fake confessions so vaunted in courts with inadequate judicial systems. Victims are so desperate that they'll sign or agree to anything. There's a whole thread on B to C papers somewhere. To bring this back to topic a little, I'm sure that if any B to C paper had been written in the style of VPW's letters, it wouldn't have been acceptable. His style of alternately expressing disappointment and then haranguing his readers isn't communicative so much as yet a further assault on people's sense of self.

Did you mean "tactical" ?

Wow, Birth to Corps papers. What if someone wrote that they'd been born into a Christian household, with loving caring parents, normal sibling relationships, average schooling (not too bright, not thick either), played some kind of team sport but only at inter-school level, got a job (or jobs) - okay but not stellar. Went to Sunday school and church, but didn't find it particularly enthralling. Interested in knowing and understanding a bit more. Perhaps you could add in sorrow at a grandparent dying, failed driving test at first attempt but did well second time around. An uneventful life, a well-behaved kid. In other words, not much "ammunition." I wonder what VPW would make of that? Would he send it back, saying Give us the bad stuff you did? Would someone want to embroider their past with indiscretions, make themselves seem naughtier than they were?

What you don't see is, firstly, any genuine love for God, or for Jesus Christ; and secondly, any genuine concern for God's people. No kindness, compassion, consideration. No honest concern for the Way Corps. No concern whatsoever for the "mission field" other than getting bums on seats. (Well not bums, they wouldn't be allowed, but bottoms on seats.) Just whiny moaning and "poor-little-me-ishness", and complaints about abandoning the ministry. Shows how degraded the WC of that time had become, to accept this as "normal." (Can't speak for myself as WC then, as I didn't come along till after the Great Man was dead - we had other terrors (or terrorists) to contend with.)

Banging my head on a stone wall here. I was attempting to respond to you, rrobs, unlike others here who have jumped on you. My headache from banged head, and I, are now going away for the weekend. Have fun not responding to others.

What I said, rrobs, was this: So again, what, in practical terms, are you doing, rrobs? In what way is the quality of your life and thus the quality of life of your society [community] effecting social change in your community? Is it working? How has your community improved? Show us your faith, by its outworking. By what you do. You chose to quote a part of my own post. But I quoted you (that's what you repeated) and then I asked you the above question. Do please answer. And DO NOT ascribe to me your take on anything other than the written word. Most Christians use the written word as the basis for getting out there and DOING something for their society. I don't care for fancy phrases. I do care for living the way Jesus Christ has modelled, taught, lived.

"Social gospel"? WTF? Did not Christ spend much of his time "socialising" and thus spreading the gospel? Healing people (how social is that!!)? If "the word" as you define it has no social application - well, I want a better "word." Cos the God I love is passionately interested in people and in their wellbeing. God doesn't live in books but in people. (Sorry to disappoint you.)

I was thinking, kindness and compassion go a long way to overcoming social isolation, which may be an indicator of problems. But there are many social isolated people who don't commit heinous crimes. And there are people brought up in decent households who do commit heinous crimes. So what, in practical terms, are you doing, rrobs? In what way are you attempting to effect social change in your community? Is it working? How has your community improved? These might be helpful things to know. Please tell us more about your assertions that "With a scripture centered change of mind, the quality of your individual life will take a turn for the better. " and how that relates to your opening statement of "The quality of life of a society is ultimately determined by the thoughts that each individual in that society holds in their mind." So again, what, in practical terms, are you doing, rrobs? In what way is the quality of your life and thus the quality of life of your society [community] effecting social change in your community? Is it working? How has your community improved? Show us your faith, by its outworking. By what you do.

To address the topic that rrobs presented: Perhaps we could "stop the shootings" by everyone being watchful of their neighbours. Watchful, as in snooping, keeping a permanent eye on everyone else's business. and instantly reporting any shortcomings. Ah, I remember! We did stuff like that in rez. Snooped on each other and reported each other. We could go a step further and have a sort of spycam in everyone's houses and in public buildings. Y'know: "Big Brother is Watching You." As in 1984." A "thought-cam" even - does the technology exist yet? That way, everyone's behaviour and thought patterns can be constantly monitored. Hmm... I don't like that idea, either.

Just picked up the book from the local library. I'd reserved it some months ago. Read the foreword by the author and she points to where she found her inspirations and precedents to the behaviour described in the book. The author, Margaret Atwood, herself not only advised on the film, she had a bit part - she found that very unsettling. Looking forward to getting into it. Read it in the 80s when it was written; so much of it has stayed in my memory, unlocked by the film. Film is now being repeated on TV (internet) so it'll be interesting to re-watch that after reading the book.

Donated???!!! By TWI?????!!!!! My in rez Corps got to work for several weeks on preparing Emporia for auction. First and only time I've seen the place. G@il, the librarian from HQ, came to see what books she wanted to take. She made a very accurate estimate of the number of all of the books there. Chose the ones she wanted to take to HQ, then we packed those. Then as I recall we packed up the rest of the books into auction lots. Or maybe we counted the remainder, on the shelves. We counted the books as prepared for auction; that's how I know her estimate of the number was a very good estimate. Of course, I don't know the outcome of the auction. We weren't there and would only have been told afterwards that the auction as a whole had raised $xxx - if we were told at all. It'll be in journals that I kept at the time - I still can't bring myself to look at those.

Grief! 46 years of the same old boring lockstep routines. Nothing new or innovative, nothing exciting. Scarcely any people, either. Well escaped, DWBH.

I don't know about anyone here, but splinters or any other organisation - I don't care. Can't cope with these "festivals" and group meets such as that on the page that Raf has included. My church puts on weekends with special speakers, and I always want to run a mile. Part of my legacy of too many boring meetings run by TWI. Sad really. I'm probably missing out.

If you Private Message the poster Don't Worry Be Happy, he may be able to give you a lot of background. Then, you can share what you feel is appropriate on these pages.

There's a lot to be gained from reading different versions of the Bible. Some come with a different theology attached (translating "it" for "he" to make Jesus = God, for example). There's an abundance of new versions available, some of dubious scholarship. As with any document, never forget to root it in the language of the time it was put together. Language is not once-for-ever; words do change meanings, sometimes very significantly. TWI only used AV [KJV] because they could poach Bullinger's work. You could almost say that Bullinger was the Research Dept for TWI.

Hi, Tessie, and welcome. You will find a few children of TWI parents here. It hasn't been easy for you with your formative years spent in a demanding condemning cult. I don't know if you will find people of the time period and location you mention. Congratulations on getting out. Sorry about your Mum. Do you still see her? It must be difficult for both, all, of you. How's your sister - an innie or also out? Have a cup of coffee and enjoy reminiscences and revelations.