Twinky

The debt thing really should be completely changed. TWI doesn't teach proper budgeting skills - when I was in rez we all had to write down what we spent our monthly pocket money on, and it was scrutinised when we got our next pocket money. But budgeting skills and forward planning, as such, weren't taught. I contrast that with what churches here are doing to help people learn about finances, and get out of debt. No beating with cudgels, no condemnation, but instead good solid advice and help. Contact with creditors too, to get them to hold off with their intimidating letters and visits. Just suppose: if TWI had taught budgeting skills and debt management, how much that skill base could have been taken into the community to help people learn to balance their budgets. It's not "research" as such, but it is practical help.

The general populace of the UK doesn't focus on Advent either, just on a spending splurge, lots of parties and booze, a few carols, and decorating trees. When I lived in a southern hemisphere country, not only is Advent unknown, Christmas is pretty low key too. A great excuse for extended time off work on one's long summer holiday. The places where I worked (in legal offices) often closed for a huge 4 or 5 week holiday from <>23 Dec to end of third week of Jan... or a bit longer. (That's because the courts are usually closed then.) This was a bit of a luxury - other offices and businesses usually only close for a couple or three weeks. That's why it's good to be reminded of what Advent is about, and what "Christmas" is supposed to be about. Not an event that TWI ever considered, or focused on. But it is worth taking the time to slow down, think of things to come, and plan with hope and expectation. Joyful anticipation... excitement... real celebration. Advent has been a part of the Christian "church year" internationally since the fifth century at least - possibly long before. Not just a UK event.

It's Advent Sunday - the church's start to the Christmas season, a time of expectant and joyful preparation. Blessing, peace and joy to all my friends. And also to those who are not yet friends. This week's theme is HOPE - expectantly looking forward to the coming of the promised Redeemer. Isaiah 9:1-7 - - the hope of breaking every yoke of all the oppressors [Syrians and Assyrians, at the time], of the burning of all their weapons of oppression; of the coming of a great light and the coming of the government of peace, the Wonderful Counselor. Those people had a wonderful hope to look forward to. And we too have a wonderful hope of the "second coming" to look forward to, in just the same way. And we have more immediate "hopes" - for a better year, for a better job, for our families and friends. What are YOU hoping for, for this coming Christmas season and for 2018?

What's Vodafone got to do with anything? Plenty of other service providers. Makes the article look like inflammatory hype. If you're talking about restricting access to services or some website, maybe a better comparison would be China. Even Google plays by China's rules, in China.

Thanks for that, rrobs. Your link was slightly incorrect (https stated twice). If others here choose to follow up, here's a better link - I've pointed this to their home page, as there are items there that might be of interest: https://characterofgod.org/ The "I create evil" article contains a number of references and quotes from sources, academics, from decades if not centuries ago. If this "idiom of permission" was understood then, how come the knowledge got lost? Buried, perhaps in AV [KJV] English, which at times was a little political. There are a number of articles from older commentators. Some of these look as though they might be a good read. One of the articles is quite a long essay which also may be of interest. Here's the link to that: http://characterofgod.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/Interpreting-Hebrew-Causative-Verbs-Permissively.pdf The author of this document quotes a number of different versions of the Bible, including easy-read type versions, which in this case appear more accurate (as in "I will let [some event] happen"). Thanks again for the link. Like you, I don't think any of the contributors has Way connections at all.

Check it out. Let me know if it's worthwhile. There may well be such an idiom. Or is it just - irony? However, I'd suspect that VPW used it more than it warranted, to give himself permission to re-work scriptures to give his own slant, or to give himself permission to do something that's definitely prohibited.

There was nothing memorable about the class when I took it. No dogs with women videos. There was negligible stuff about families, Christian or otherwise. In these days of inappropriate treatment of children, you might think there'd be loving guidelines about bringing up a child with tenderness and love (oh wait - this is TWI), teaching kids to say prayers at an early age, etc. I recall nothing of the type. There was probably a section about wives submitting to their husbands - their husbands, not to other men/other wives' husbands. Whatever - this section would have been taught in a way that pushed females to a lower status than men. (And, not followed in practice anyway, where other men's wives were fair game for VPW and LCM.) When it came to sex, there was no careful teaching about (if you like) how to make love (not sex) except that "sex starts at the breakfast table" - in other words, be nice to your wife all day if you want her to be nice to you at night. Some people are even now, and more so when this class was recorded, remarkably ignorant about how babies are made, best times to make babies, natural family planning etc. This got a brief nod and may have taken all of 5 mins. It could have been a decent, careful explanation - but it wasn't. No teaching about what happens to a woman's body during pregnancy, extra care she might need, post-partum issues, or possible loss of libido. What I do recall is a great long list of nicknames for men's and women's private parts. VPW spent a lot of time on this. We needed to know, because people might use these names to describe their sexual problems to us when we were "counselling" them, so we'd need to know what these terms meant, and not to be shocked by them. This class was a total disappointment, an abysmal waste of time, and if you'd paid for it, an utter waste of money.

At the moment, my microwave /small fan oven has failed - the Start button doesn't work any more. Worn out, I think. It's surprising how many times I want to use the oven - to cook conventionally, to mwave food, or simply to soften some butter. How easily we become reliant on technology. With an enormous power outage, practically everything everywhere would stop. No electricity for street lights and home appliances. No ATMs, no fuel pumps. How long would hospital generators continue to work? No info from satellites! No info from satellites? Wow! No media! Just think about all the out-of-work celebs there would be!

Skyrider! After all this time you care - to re-take WAP?

I think, after all this time, I really don't care any more. What does WAP stand for anyway - Waste of Abundance and Personality? Find a decent church, get to know the people there, and see what they DO, not just what they say.

This thread has got right off topic, so I'm just posting the starter post to remind people what the thread's about. It would be interesting to know what differences there are - and what still remain.

That's disappointing, when he agreed to 30 years. It's obviously not in the nature of a "contract" that he agreed to, when he agreed to be extradited. And then to lodge an appeal?! He'll still be an old man when he get out - if he gets out. Methinks the "accidents" that have befallen him, and attacks from other inmates, may not improve his lifespan. He may be unhealthy from years of prison life. Perhaps getting geriatric illnesses and diseases. In the UK sometimes such prisoners are given early release, because a prison isn't a hospital and they don't have facilities to deal with the problems - like dementia, or serious degeneration of their bodies - of very elderly prisoners. But some - like Ian Brady, a notorious torturer and killer of young children - die there, despite their condition (he had brain cancer). Perhaps they're kept in because even after decades, it's safer for them in prison.

Also, Chockfull, if someone didn't complete the WAP class(es), did that become the leader's fault (because the leader didn't "undershepherd" well enough? I recall pressure to get people signed up to run classes, more pressure to keep people who'd started the class, and then of course if the people didn't stick around... I recall LCM shrieking about poor undershepherding - that was when PFAL was being run. I was gone before WAP was introduced.

Interesting, I'd never read much about this. Didn't realise that the gang was mostly women. In the UK, these women (and the male gang member) would probably have been allowed out on licence long ago. (Parolees are, of course, supervised, and can be recalled at any time and for any - or no - reason.) I'd think, with careful psych treatment, they could have been returned to society and got on with life, at least to some extent. With their cult leader out of the way, they could have resumed "normal" brain function. As for Manson himself, he seems to have been such a degenerate person that no matter where he was, he ought to have been locked up forever - as indeed he was. A horrible start to life, apparently, but did nothing to redeem himself or improve his life chances. What a waste.

I did actually pose the question as a serious one.

So this infamous cult leader has finally died, in prison. No loss to society. Any thoughts, anyone? What happened to his followers? Were any imprisoned? Released? Gone on to be helpful, or horrible, members of society?

Ah, T-Bone, not going to give up posting here - just that I won't bother attempting to engage with rrobs.

Difficult to know, but I'm not falling for it again. This is the second thread (at least) where he's talked past me, won't engage. So I won't get involved in his threads again. If he posts again!

Grace, have a practice in the area at the bottom of the Home page, called Testing 1 2 3. You can try out whatever you might need to do, there, or perhaps even find out some answers to other potential problems.

"Stinky"???? Okay, I see you changed that in a later post. Do you know you can edit posts, Grace?

I am coming to the conclusion that rrobs may have Asperger's syndrome. Clearly intelligent, well able to function in a mechanical way (after all, he was a pilot) - but not able to comprehend the meaning behind the words. Asperger's people take things at face value; literally; black and white; that's it. Excellent at some tasks, logical, decisive. But lacking, as Rocky remarks, empathy and compassion. Asperger's people can learn a little of what goes on behind the words, but they don't comprehend it. There's more to life than that. Words encapsulate what goes on in the heart. "Love" as such isn't literal, isn't quantifiable or measurable, and isn't mechanical. Nor is "forgiveness." If these are any of those "mechanical" things, it's not love and it's not forgiveness. An alternative to rrobs having Asperger's is that he is simply a Waybot, the sort of person that spouts the scriptures but doesn't properly consider who he's talking to and what their needs might be, but simply talks right over them. These people are like records or tape machines. They aren't really interested in what the person they are talking to has actually said, don't pay attention to responses, and they don't "draw out" from whomever they are talking to what is really going on, what the problem really is. Sadly, Waybots don't even notice when responses cease. Rather, this seems to make them spout even more scripture of increasing irrelevance to the person they are addressing. I don't know whether Waybot-ness is learned behaviour or whether it patterns onto something in the Waybot's own personality. Whatever... they still miss the point that they are dealing with people and people's issues. And thus, (despite probably being well-meaning) they fail to be good ministers of the gospel. I prefer to think of rrobs as the former. The latter thought is too horrible to entertain.

T-Bone, what are you on???!!!

Thank you, Rocky. Looks like rrobs doesn't bother to read responses. He could easily have seen those posts. Not like this is a long thread; this is only page two.

I find it most interesting that rrobs posts something about being loving and getting on and loving the unlovable (paraphrase). I posted something very personal and directly on point; an initial post and a follow-up one. Other people have commented, and one kind poster has PM'd me. I know rrobs has had the opportunity to see it, because he has posted a couple of things after that. What has he said, or done? Just plain IGNORED IT and thus IGNORED ME. How very "loving" of him.

Hahahahahaha! PFAL was the biggest "clone class" going. A stolen class from someone who'd genuinely put it together. Oh, the irony!!