Twinky

Mike, I do feel rather sorry for you. You are clearly committed to trying to ascertain God's honest truth. You have spent years of your life doing so. But you are looking in the wrong place. or in your case: 37The Father who sent Me has Himself testified about Me. You have not heard His voice at any time, and you haven't seen His form. 38You don't have His word living in you, because you don't believe the One He sent. 39You pore over PFAL because you think you have eternal life in it, yet it's the scriptures that testify about Me. 40And you are not willing to come to Me through the scriptures, so that you may have life. I can't help feel that if you studied the Scriptures, by means of different Bible versions, and some reputable commentaries (or even some disreputable ones!), you would have a wider understanding. I wonder if you have any decent Bible software tools so that you can study more easily? Can I recommend the online programs (apps) BibleHub, or Blue Letter Bible? They're both good, easy to navigate, and have a lot of research features. They're free to download. There are other programs available. You can research individual verses, themes, topics, do word studies, get historical background, access dozens of commentaries, compare different versions, and find more complex or more simple versions. In fact, by comparing different versions, you'd be surprised at how little variation there is in them, if you extract the thought that the words represent.

So_crates, he can't look any verses up. Even if they're copied into PFAL or the collaterals, they're certainly not interpreted "right where they're written" in PFAL materials. Remember, all the Bible is suspect, probably corrupt. Therefore, direct Bible quotes are all suspect and corrupt. And in any event, they're only "background."

Impossible. Unless maybe you use a spiritual sword to do the separating out of PFAL from TWI. Are you meaning to separate out the fruit of PFAL from the fruit of TWI in general, is that what you were saying? But TWI is PFAL in action. No-one else has PFAL. Therefore, no-one else can be modelling PFAL to the world. Therefore, whatever fruit there may be is fruit of PFAL as manifest as fruit of TWI. Heb 4:12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, [and of PFAL from TWI], and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

There's no shame attached to promoting a new idea. But if there is shame to be attributed, it is brought about by YOU YOURSELF, Mike, by your persistent refusal to "put out" your theory. YOU bring ridicule upon yourself firstly, by proposing your theory (which as you know has not been received with enthusiasm here) and secondly, by your refusal to respond when challenged. If your theory were so certain, surely you would have at least the basics together now? Why not, as I suggested, just take a break, get it all together, and then come back. Be prepared for some flak. You might even get some constructive criticism, pointing out holes in your theory. If VPW had bothered to submit his ideas, perhaps they would have been better and not so full of holes. You can avoid that by presenting something a bit more coherent and allowing others to point out the holes to you.

I think we should give Mike a bit of a break so that he can put his "manifesto" together. In one coherent place. (Then we can really challenge him.) Yeah. That's really going to happen.

Oh, so true!

Ah Rocky - you spoilsport!

Skyrider - you danced like that? Cute! Did ya wear the little skirt like that, too?

I had a career, which could have taken me to places of influence. Not really been able to pick that up again. Do something very different now. I had some good friends, who (amazingly) have welcomed me "back" with love in my post-Way days. I liked music and bands and whatever, mostly rock/prog rock style, but my musical interests got squashed in Waydaze. Happily now I have resumed an interest in music and am getting the musical education I missed out on in secondary school - rather different - now I sing in a choir (mostly works by Mozart, Brahms, those older composers - brilliant choirmaster, Head of the school's music dept, makes sure we know what was going on in music at the time); sing in a couple of church worship groups in "cathedral contemporary" style. In fact, sung a solo part in the abbey here, 500 in the congregation (yikes!). What else? Broke up with a nice guy that I could've been with even now - he wasn't interested in God stuff so I lost interest in him. (He's been married many years now now to the person he met after me). But I have nice male friends in my life ... and who knows where it goes from here? (smiles privately to self).

I had a career. Which wonderfully took me to another country. Which, since this thread appears to have become about cars, enabled me to buy my first car, a Ford Laser Sport. Bright red, it was (especially once I'd cut'n'polished it, brought the colour up beautifully). I liked it a lot. Like this but below the rubber door trim it was red, not grey as in the image.

Very good post, T-Bone. Very good.

Oh, what rubbish. Either it fits all or it fits none. If your whatever-it-is is really the revealed word of God, then it should be good for "OLGs," "refugees from Craig," grads, and people who have never heard of TWI. Do you know, Mike, if people do a PhD (as in "Dr W"), they have a very searching oral examination on the minutiae of the subject of their thesis? " Once you have submitted your thesis you will be invited to defend your doctorate at a ‘viva voce' (Latin for ‘by live voice') or oral examination. The thesis defence can be a daunting prospect, but many people really enjoy this experience of discussing their PhD research with genuinely interested experts. It can also be a useful networking opportunity. " https://www.vitae.ac.uk/doing-research/doing-a-doctorate/completing-your-doctorate/your-viva Your Dr W would (if he'd really done a doctorate) have had to defend his thesis (premises) before real experts. He would have to show he really knew his stuff. It's a bit more than delivering a token sermon. Now then, Mike. You will see if you care to read the link above that to some extent you are being subject to some searching and challenging questions. (I know you aren't defending a PhD but you are presenting some very controversial material.) You have to answer these challenges if you want to be taken seriously. If (as appears) you want people to throw away their Bibles, their compilations of sacred literature going back for millennia, in favour of PFAL material, you have to deal with the challenges as to why that might not be an appropriate course of action. I daren't even think about you presenting PFAL to a Jewish person, telling them that Moses is a liar or deluded or hadn't got it right, and that some cornfield preacher in Ohio is the only one who really understands God. Never mind "OLGs," "refugees from Craig," and grads.

(runs off screaming)

I honestly cannot believe that you really believe that, Mike. Whaddya mean, "Welcome"? I've already posted several things on this thread. Some of which you have responded to. For someone to receive such great revelation as to write the whole revealed word of God... at the same time behaving as that wicked man did... beggars even the ... (words fail me). Totally preposterous. You are so badly deluded, Mike.

Mike said: I don't think even VPW said that. Explicitly, at any rate. Might be implied, by requiring extensive study of collaterals rather than what everyone else refers to as "the Bible."

"The greatest secret in the world today is that the finished PFAL writings is the revealed Word of God.

That would only be the things that you yourself wrote, Mike, wouldn't it? If you were to use other people's responses without their permission, you'd be breaching their copyright. If you passed such commentary off as your own, that'd be plagiarism, as well. And you wouldn't want to be accused of being a plagiarist, would you?

Yet another distracting device. Some might think it a great ADvantage to not know other posters in person, so that the PoV can be considered outside any background knowledge. Do the facts support the argument, or does one's knowledge of the person tip the balance - either to agree or to disagree with the argument? If personal knowledge of a poster tips the balance, then what is being considered, the argument or the person? People here don't need to prove their PoV because nobody here has stated that they think the scriptures are Godbreathed or any such argument. The context is: is PFAL "Godbreathed" as you, Mike, assert?

I knew it! I knew that he'd argue about "proof." ("What kind of a proof do you want?") My only surprise is that he hasn't asked what "proof" actually means, he only asks "What kind?" as if there are at least two kinds of proof, and possibly more. Mike, surprise us all with any kind of proof. Emphasis on "proof," not on what kind.

Yep, So_crates. You've asked just one question. Let's see just one answer.

No, you bloody well weren't, despite many many requests for answers. Wouldn't mind if you could actually refute anything - whether neatly or not. But that would require actually addressing something that had been said.

That's where I found it.

Plagiarism? Theft of copyright? I was checking out something that was raised in an earlier thread and found this on the home page: And here was I, thinking that L.E.A.D. Outdoor Academy and W.O.W. Ambassadors were TWI products. (Mods, please spin this off as a separate thread if you think more appropriate, or depending on the way this thread develops.)

I'm wondering if maybe someone ought to steal Mike's copy of the orange book. What would he say if someone did that? That's it's okay, it all belongs to God? Or that someone took something that is his, Mike's? If it's not okay to steal a physical object (a book) why is it okay to steal intangible stuff (intellectual property)? If the orange book is the revealed word of God (as Mike claims) and it was okay to steal the revealed word of God from Stiles, Bullinger, and others - then it must be okay to steal Mike's copy of the orange book.