Twinky

He's a fool, So_Crates, or badly fooled, little difference here. I can't be bothered with him any more. I have things of genuine profit, to do. Prov 26:4 "Do not answer a fool according to his folly, Or you will also be like him."

That was PRECISELY why I started the ONE THING thread. But you wouldn't post on it, and it's now been locked. You've adequately demonstrated your ability to post here. What more "set up" can you possibly need?

I'm a zillion miles from "church lady," thanks. I'm a lawyer; it's my "legal hem" that you perceive (if anything). One that would keep on at any evasive witness, or partial documentation, until finally the truth emerges. If you have learned anything about "Christ formed" in the collaterals or Orange Book, do please post it. Your posts, however, indicate that this is a topic you're still "exploring," because it's inadequately covered in PFAL. Nobody wants to "pay better attention" to your posts; we're all bored by your evasive antics. That's why this thread is here: so that you can present a simple, clear, concise, ONE THING. If indeed there is ONE THING. Or ANY thing. Anyway. I'm bored. I'm done with this "witness." Dismissed. He has nothing to add. If anyone spots any new information, do please PM me

Wordwolf, appreciate your comment, but I really want this thread for ONE THING that Mike can tell us. Then that ONE THING won't get lost in clutter about other tangential issues. (Please don't respond here.) Noticeably, Mike hasn't posted anything substantive on this thread yet, too busy with the "God-breathed" thread.

I prefer to respond if someone asks me direct questions. Do you? And (as per the scriptures) I'm always ready to share how great my God is and speak of his wonders. Are you? ONE THING, Mike. ONE THING.

Good clip, Rocky. And even an angry man, to really help those who became used to "leaders" who like to yell.

Mike, I think you would do much better if you studied the scriptures. Read in several versions. Get some decent Bible software. I recommended this in a much earlier post. Set your thoughts on GOD and / or on JESUS CHRIST, try to think what the scriptures are saying about heart, integrity, and looking forward to the life to come. Your hunt through PFAL is a trip underground down a rabbit warren. There is a way out, but will you find it? Anyway, I think I'm done with this. Somebody please wake me up if Mike ever comes up with something of substance.

Mike, in a few words, I could present quite a number of things I learned whilst in TWI. Possibly, probably, even from the Orange book. Things I learned then, and continue to believe now. And I know that it's in TWI that I learned those things, because I never learned them in the church I walked out of years before, because it was so boring. So, then, I find it astonishing that you won't share anything that you learned. You are "not prepared to present" anything. Even though you have seen "spectacular results." Most Christians love to share when they've seen "spectacular results" from seeing God at work. The difference between you and me (and other Christians), however, is that I (and other Christians) use the Scriptures as the basis for what I believe. And we give thanks and glory to God. Whereas, you use the Orange book as the basis of your beliefs. And give thanks and glory to a man.

Question is, though: What did Mike learn? Still waiting to hear from him. Just ONE THING.

Not singling anybody out, Mike. But if in 20 or more years you cannot point to any practical benefit - well, it seems to me that some local self-help group might be more helpful. Slimming World, or Assertiveness. Or even just an Art class. One would probably learn something practical at the very first session. Apologies, Modcat.

That's a ridiculous answer, Nike. If something is good, and you believe it, you'll do it. Goodness me, if someone tells you a new store in town has opened and it's a great place to find your favorite Wotsit, you'd believe them enough to go and visit the store and find out how many Wotsits they have, what sizes, colors, etc. Simply, you believed the person who told you, took action on that, went and did. That's practical application. Now you seem to be telling us that you don't do that with "God-breathed" PFAL materials. Wow, that is some recommendation. "PFAL is God-breathed, but I don't act on it." The implication, then, is that you don't believe it. Yet, you also say, "Living it..." One has to ask, Living what. then? I know when I first read the epistles, there's a lot of practical information in that; I read them, thought about what was said, and decided to do it. Even on an "exploratory" basis, I found it worked. So I still do those things. But you, you can't point to anything in PFAL that has had that profound effect on you? After all these many years of deep study? That is so sad. Anyway, if anything does occur to you, I opened a thread just for you to post such practical insights. I'm sure you've seen it.

A THREAD JUST FOR MIKE - post from the Theopneustos thread Let's make it easy. Nike, give us ONE THING that you know better than anybody else. ONE THING from the collaterals that you know and apply better than anyone here. ONE THING that works. Note: from the collaterals. So that means you aren't referring to the Bible or quoting verses, since elsewhere you've disavowed the Bible as anything other than "background." Be sure also that you aren't plagiarising other people's work. ONE THING. Quote one paragraph or sentence, one pronouncement of VPW. Then, show how it applies. How YOU have benefitted from it. EVERYBODY ELSE: please keep off thread. No tangents to distract him. Let's see if he actually has anything.

Let's make it easy. Nike, give us ONE THING that you know better than anybody else. ONE THING from the collaterals that you know and apply better than anyone here. ONE THING that works. Note: from the collaterals. So that means you aren't referring to the Bible or quoting verses, since elsewhere you've disavowed the Bible as anything other than "background." Be sure also that you aren't plagiarising other people's work. ONE THING. Quote one paragraph or sentence, one pronouncement of VPW. Then, show how it applies. How YOU have benefitted from it.

I think you meant as amended above, Sky.

You beat me to saying this, Waysider. Life is not "pure evil" just as nothing is "pure good." But just as having, say, a potato that is gnawed by slugs that have eaten it, or a piece of fruit that has been dropped and bruised - once you cut away the damaged areas, there's really very little that's usable left. Better to and get some new, undamaged, potatoes or fruit. The "good bits" relating to TWI in any event are mostly the lower-level people (not any writings), some of which people, I am the first to agree, are passionate, enthusiastic, and awesome. But that is because they love God - and not because they love PFAL.

Quite clear your name's MIKE not NIKE ("just do it!")

So why don't you just get on and write what you want to say? Stop "dealing with the audience" by dribs and drabs, and get on with the "main course." "Practice write-up"? Huh? If you took on board what people said, and refined your - whatever you're pretending to write - then it could be a practice write-up. But this drib and drab style, drip-feeding your morsels to an unappreciative audience, isn't practice - it's procrastination. Put up or shut up, Mike.

Waysider, stop baiting the silly beggar. Then, he'll have time to present his manifesto or thesis or whatever it is. Baiting him just prolongs the agony (from his PoV) or amusement (from our PoV).

And here was me thinking this thread (and the other) had gone very quiet. Quiet, because Mike is busy writing his "manifesto" and none of us here want to disturb him in that most important act.

Pity them both in the article. What a lot of baggage to have to carry.

And Raf. I think I'd agree with you to some extent about "God-breathed," though for different reasons. Some of the Bible is (without limitation of categories) record keeping; some is collections of sayings or common sense or wisdom; some is history; and some is visionary. The last category might be "God-breathed" or God-inspired. These threads intertwine throughout all the books of the Bible. I do not believe every word is "God-breathed." I do think that the principal ideas that the words convey are (often) Godly, when they aren't being factual reportage.

Not sure if this was aimed only at Chockfull or at all the posters on this thread. I'm amused (and sorrowful) at the whole lot of these recent threads. They are actually very interesting. I am well impressed by some of the posts here, by the discussion in general. T-Bone, So_crates and Chockfull in particular all make good points, good theological points. I hope some might think my own contributions worthwhile too. It's not VPW-bashing - nor is it Mike-bashing. It is idea- and heresy-bashing. Doctrinal would be a good place for this thread.

Prov 20:11, in four versions: King James Version Even a child is known by his doings, whether his work be pure, and whether it be right. Darby Bible Translation Even a child is known by his doings, whether his work be pure, and whether it be right. World English Bible Even a child makes himself known by his doings, whether his work is pure, and whether it is right. Young's Literal Translation Even by his actions a youth maketh himself known, Whether his work be pure or upright. Even a child... how much more an adult, no matter how much the adult dissembles. Eventually his real self will "out." It's one's own actions that makes one's own heart known. It's obvious; people can see what one does. It's one's "doings" that are the fruit in someone's life, the fruit and product of all that he believes in his heart.

This is a bit long, sorry, but the rebellion of Korah is referenced elsewhere in this thread, and links in well with the story of Balaam. Some comments in blue in the text, some application comments at the very end. Numbers 16 (KJV) 16 Now Korah, the son of Izhar, the son of Kohath, the son of Levi, and Dathan and Abiram, the sons of Eliab, and On, the son of Peleth, sons of Reuben, took men: 2 And they rose up before Moses, with certain of the children of Israel, two hundred and fifty princes of the assembly, famous in the congregation, men of renown: 3 And they gathered themselves together against Moses and against Aaron, and said unto them, Ye take too much upon you, seeing all the congregation are holy, every one of them, and the Lord is among them: wherefore then lift ye up yourselves above the congregation of the Lord? [So, Korah, who had been anointed as chief of the Levites, inciting rebellion. He had a position of leadership and authority – but rebelled against The Establishment (Moses and Aaron) and thought he wanted a share of the action too. Claimed Moses and Aaron were too big for their boots. Claimed all the congregation was holy, when it was very clear they weren’t. Korah incited other leaders and got them to follow him.] 4 And when Moses heard it, he fell upon his face: 5 And he spake unto Korah and unto all his company, saying, Even to morrow the Lord will shew who are his, and who is holy; and will cause him to come near unto him: even him whom he hath chosen will he cause to come near unto him. 6 This do; Take you censers, Korah, and all his company; 7 And put fire therein, and put incense in them before the Lord to morrow: and it shall be that the man whom the Lord doth choose, he shall be holy: ye take too much upon you, ye sons of Levi. [Moses reminds them that it’s the Lord’s choice who serves Him – not his, Moses’s choice.] 8 And Moses said unto Korah, Hear, I pray you, ye sons of Levi: 9 Seemeth it but a small thing unto you, that the God of Israel hath separated you from the congregation of Israel, to bring you near to himself to do the service of the tabernacle of the Lord, and to stand before the congregation to minister unto them? 10 And he hath brought thee near to him, and all thy brethren the sons of Levi with thee: and seek ye the priesthood also? 11 For which cause both thou and all thy company are gathered together against the Lord: and what is Aaron, that ye murmur against him? [Moses reminds them that they already have a special role to play. Why should they overreach and demand even more? Demand the role assigned to others? Korah and the others are looking enviously at what they perceive the others have – status, position, power, authority. It’s what Korah lusts after: the control of the fledgling nation of Israel, the control of God’s chosen people.] 12 And Moses sent to call Dathan and Abiram, the sons of Eliab: which said, We will not come up: 13 Is it a small thing that thou hast brought us up out of a land that floweth with milk and honey, to kill us in the wilderness, except thou make thyself altogether a prince over us? 14 Moreover thou hast not brought us into a land that floweth with milk and honey, or given us inheritance of fields and vineyards: wilt thou put out the eyes of these men? we will not come up. [Those who listened to Korah were caught up in his rebelliousness, resented Moses’s position and authority, and wanted their own fiefdoms. Dathan and Abiram weren’t Levites, but were from other tribes. They were leaders in their own right, but didn’t have special tabernacle responsibilities. But they had been led astray by those who did have tabernacle responsibilities.] 15 And Moses was very wroth, and said unto the Lord, Respect not thou their offering: I have not taken one foot from them, neither have I hurt one of them. [Moses says he has taken nothing from them. There’s an implication here that these rebels may have taken asses and other property from others.] 16 And Moses said unto Korah, Be thou and all thy company before the Lord, thou, and they, and Aaron, to morrow: 17 And take every man his censer, and put incense in them, and bring ye before the Lord every man his censer, two hundred and fifty censers; thou also, and Aaron, each of you his censer. 18 And they took every man his censer, and put fire in them, and laid incense thereon, and stood in the door of the tabernacle of the congregation with Moses and Aaron. 19 And Korah gathered all the congregation against them unto the door of the tabernacle of the congregation: and the glory of the Lord appeared unto all the congregation. [Korah gathered “all the congregation.” He was only told to gather all those who colluded in his rebellion - "all thy company." But Korah wants to make a big show of his power. Notably Moses doesn’t gather everyone. Implication is he’d rather be a bit more private about it, not make too much of a show.] 20 And the Lord spake unto Moses and unto Aaron, saying, 21 Separate yourselves from among this congregation, that I may consume them in a moment. [God sounds really pi$$ed off.] 22 And they fell upon their faces, and said, O God, the God of the spirits of all flesh, shall one man sin, and wilt thou be wroth with all the congregation? [Genuine leaders, making genuine intercession.] 23 And the Lord spake unto Moses, saying, 24 Speak unto the congregation, saying, Get you up from about the tabernacle of Korah, Dathan, and Abiram. 25 And Moses rose up and went unto Dathan and Abiram; and the elders of Israel followed him. 26 And he spake unto the congregation, saying, Depart, I pray you, from the tents of these wicked men, and touch nothing of theirs, lest ye be consumed in all their sins. [God’s giving the congregation the opportunity to repent, not be caught up in this aspect of the spiritual battle.] 27 So they gat up from the tabernacle of Korah, Dathan, and Abiram, on every side: and Dathan and Abiram came out, and stood in the door of their tents, and their wives, and their sons, and their little children. [But the rebels stood firm. Dathan and Abiram, not being Levites, weren’t at the temple, but hung back at their tents. Leaders of some sort, perhaps, but cowardly ones.] 28 And Moses said, Hereby ye shall know that the Lord hath sent me to do all these works; for I have not done them of mine own mind. 29 If these men die the common death of all men, or if they be visited after the visitation of all men; then the Lord hath not sent me. 30 But if the Lord make a new thing, and the earth open her mouth, and swallow them up, with all that appertain unto them, and they go down quick into the pit; then ye shall understand that these men have provoked the Lord. 31 And it came to pass, as he had made an end of speaking all these words, that the ground clave asunder that was under them: 32 And the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed them up, and their houses, and all the men that appertained unto Korah, and all their goods. 33 They, and all that appertained to them, went down alive into the pit, and the earth closed upon them: and they perished from among the congregation. [Wow, what a display of power! Very scary!] 34 And all Israel that were round about them fled at the cry of them: for they said, Lest the earth swallow us up also. [Everyone who saw this was scared witless.] 35 And there came out a fire from the Lord, and consumed the two hundred and fifty men that offered incense. [These are rebellious Levites, false servants who wanted the power and authority and kudos.] … 41 But on the morrow all the congregation of the children of Israel murmured against Moses and against Aaron, saying, Ye have killed the people of the Lord. [It only just happened, and already the people have forgotten, and blamed those with the real power and authority.] 42 And it came to pass, when the congregation was gathered against Moses and against Aaron, that they looked toward the tabernacle of the congregation: and, behold, the cloud covered it, and the glory of the Lord appeared. 43 And Moses and Aaron came before the tabernacle of the congregation. 44 And the Lord spake unto Moses, saying, 45 Get you up from among this congregation, that I may consume them as in a moment. And they fell upon their faces. [Genuine leaders, making more genuine intercession.] 46 And Moses said unto Aaron, Take a censer, and put fire therein from off the altar, and put on incense, and go quickly unto the congregation, and make an atonement for them: for there is wrath gone out from the Lord; the plague is begun. [God deals with the people and there is a fatal plague among them] 47 And Aaron took as Moses commanded, and ran into the midst of the congregation; and, behold, the plague was begun among the people: and he put on incense, and made an atonement for the people. 48 And he stood between the dead and the living; and the plague was stayed. 49 Now they that died in the plague were fourteen thousand and seven hundred, beside them that died about the matter of Korah. 50 And Aaron returned unto Moses unto the door of the tabernacle of the congregation: and the plague was stayed. [How gruesome! The leaders of the rebellion died in horrible ways – fell into earthquake cracks, or were consumed by the very fire that they themselves had offered in their own righteousness. And those leaders had led astray many others, who themselves died in the plague.] To me, this smacks of the desire to usurp legitimate spiritual authority. VPW wanted to be a preacher-man, because he saw what power the local minister appeared to have. Having started his own ministry, he then leads others astray, incites rebellion, takes wannabe leaders and trains them up as Way Corps, and tries to take over a large number of God’s people and pervert them from God’s own way and God’s chosen ministers. The rebels wanted “their” own ministries too. Their own “splinter groups.” They, and all those that follow them, will ultimately perish. They don't enter into the "more abundant life," but into death. But God continually listens to pleas for mercy, and allows those who repent to live.