Twinky

Too right, Penworks!

Nice, T-Bone. If our "Christian" beliefs do not enable us to connect better with the world around us, what is the point of those beliefs? We are to love God, AND we are to love fellow humans "as ourselves". We are to LOVE others. Did not Jesus love others enough to GIVE himself and to DIE for all of them, those who knew and cared for him, as well as those who've never heard of him or who reviled him? Yes? Then we are to do the same. We cannot LOVE others without engaging with them. LOVING others involves action, caring, empathy. We have to GIVE of ourselves; what we receive back through his amazing grace [ie, not "payment"] is an amazing understanding of his love for us. Acting in love is how we "grow in every way into him who is the head--Christ" (Eph 4:15). So that's why I'm interested in learning more of Mike's journey into understanding as he explores the threads at the Cafe and learns of other people's stories. How has that helped his understanding grow? How does that help him to help others in his immediate vicinity? How does empathy for others play out in his life?

That's quite a vid, Sky. And quite a confident young man. Cool as a cucumber.

Nostalgia? Over the breakup of families?? WTF??? I'd've thought "nauseated by" would have been a better description.

Strikes me your previous post is a waste of your time. You said you were going to read old threads to try to understand people, and give up posting for a while.

Mike, please re-read the first two posts when I opened this thread. You indicated that you had been re-reading heart-rending stories on old threads and your understanding was growing. So this thread is for you to share how your understanding is growing. Do be aware that most people haven't written "their story" in one place, but there may be many posts by a person on many threads over a long period that will give "their story". If you read all the posts by one poster, you'd get a little of "their story" but it'd take you a long time. (Rocky, whose post is immediately above this, has, I see, nearly 11,000 posts, some of which may embody his story, and other posts will be something flippant.) People are not bitter, but some have suffered irremediable harm at the hands of "leadership" in TWI. There may have been much forgiveness of TWI, but that does not rectify the loss of a body part or the loss of a child or the damage to a marriage, which marriage might or might not survive. It does not rectify lost job opportunities, career development, financial hardship now caused by surrendering so much to (being coerced by) TWI. It does not rectify the missed opportunity to see a loved one before death, or repair damaged family/friend relationships. I fear for some of the children brought up in TWI who had been raised in a bullying and otherwise abusive atmosphere - raised with fear and not with love. Most here will acknowledge some initial benefits, or deliverance, as you yourself do, delivered from the bondage of the RC church. Others talk of deliverance from addictions of various kinds. (One of my Corps sisters had been delivered from a life of drug addiction that led to prostitution, simply so that she could get her next fix. She had an amazing story to tell - and she gave the glory to God. Yes, she was helped by TWI, only God knows how.) However, too often the deliverance is a deliverance into deeper bondage and servitude; it's just less obvious. So, if you are reading, and you now begin to understand this damage that has been caused, and to develop empathy for the victims, sufferers, abusees, call 'em what you will, it would be a pleasure to share your journey in understanding. If it helps you, here's a brief snapshot. When I was cast out I fell into deepest despair. I was alienated from all my friends and family. All. Everyone. I had given up everything and everyone to follow this wonderful Godly ministry. I was on my way to crawl back over broken glass to get back to TWI after ten years of abject misery and (self-imposed) condemnation away from TWI. I was bright, confident and outgoing before I met a bunch of WoWs; now I was afraid of my own shadow and of every action, no matter how kind, that was shown towards me. I happened across GSC whilst looking for the zip code for TWI. I was totally appalled at the disrespect for this wonderful ministry. I could not believe what I was reading. This godly ministry would never allow these things to happen! They would stand up against sexual abuse, defend marriages, model Godly behavior. Yet, the stories I read chimed with things I'd seen. The severe abuse that happened to me, I learned, wasn't personal as such, just part of the working pattern of TWI. What happened to me had happened to countless others, especially women, and very especially to smart women. I read much that shocked me to my core. And after that, the scales from my eyes and my heart, and God has worked hard to help and heal me. Loving gentle people in churches have helped me. Strangers in the street have been kind to me. Some friends and family relationships are restored, another significant one even more damaged. God has restored very much to me, so much I could weep at his great graciousness. And yet, my career has never recovered, and my longed-for children will never be born; I am now way past childbearing age. Learn to see these stories, Mike, and you will genuinely be able to help people. I believe you have a heart to help and to show God's love to people. You can do that, but you MUST abandon your PFAL mindset because that doesn't deliver into freedom but into bondage. PFAL and TWI cannot be separated. If you argue otherwise, you haven't learned much from the "heart-rending stories." So, what have you learned so far?

Mike also said this, on page 30:

Mike, on another thread, said:

Maybe it's time to divide this thread and lock this part of the thread, as it's now moving in a completely different direction, that could be interesting to explore. Thoughts, mods?

Don't confuse "prosperity gospel" with true gospel.

Good post, T-Bone. Thought the above bits bear repetition. To be slightly more balanced regarding thinking processes, it's perfectly true that our thought processes were subverted and badly, or very badly, damaged. However, we all have worldly thought processes that need to be unravelled too - our selfishness, unkindness, pride and arrogance - these are "bound up" in our flesh, and it's what we brought with us when we "got into" really wanting to know Godly things - we need to reckon the old man dead and put on the new spiritual man clothed with the mind of Christ. Unfortunately we were taught to put on the mind of Wierwille, so we have to get rid of that as well. Perhaps this is a little of what Mt 23:15 is getting at: "Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You travel over land and sea to win a single convert, and when you have succeeded, you make them twice as much a child of hell as you are." We have become "twice as much a child of hell" as our "father in the word" (VPW, gag) because we have both worldly and Wierwille thought processes to unravel. Years ago, you, T-Bone, said that the WC program was like Miracle-Gro for all our faults. It's time for the Round-Up now - or even SBK - to kill those faulty and putrid thoughts right down to the root.

Well done, Mike, at long last you got a "reputation" or "like" vote. Well, a couple of votes, actually.

I think we might be seeing a bit of meekness and humility from Mike, and, dare I say it, some beginnings of empathy. Very good. Peace, Mike.

In all your huffing and puffing, Mike, you've missed everything that is good about any Bible version. You assume dishonesty, attack and much negativity, when people here point out what you don't understand. Wantonly do not understand.

Is it time for this to go to Soap Opera? That'd give Mike his much needed rest.

Translation: "The more obvious and adversarial the set-up question is that’s hurled at me, the wriggle room I need."

Just one question to Mike... Do you think that Christ is formed, or is being formed, in you, Mike? (Hint: the answer would be in the range "Yes" or "No.")

I'm glad I never suffered under Pontius Wierwille. I suffered under the reign of the Dancing Prez. Burdens? My lord, when I hear what some of the early Corps got up to, I wonder how on earth you had the liberty. Practically every minute of in rez time in the 90s was buttoned down very tightly. LCM was twice the child of hell, as it were. As in this statement, by Jesus: "Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites, because you travel around on sea and land to make one proselyte; and when he becomes one, you make him twice as much a son of hell as yourselves." "Woe to you, Phariseeical President, VPW, hypocrite, because you travel around on sea and land to make one President; and when he becomes one, you make him twice as much a son of hell as yourself."

@ Mike. You say you miss posts - hard to see how, as you're running this thread. It seems to me to be disrespectful to not bother to check if you have missed any posts, before "pouncing" on a few posts that you don't like, and never commenting on posts that might be asking you something. However, if you really don't know how to read a thread and see all the posts, here's a beginner guide. Arrive at GSC, even in the About the Way forum. Refresh the page (F5 key on your computer). Page will refresh. If there are new posts, the forum name or thread name will be in bold type. At the side of each thread, you will see something like a star, or other symbol (spot) on less active threads. Hover over that; it will tell you that if you click it, it will take you to the First Unread Post. Click on the star. Hey presto, you will see any posts you "missed." If someone posts while you are posting yourself, you will get a message saying there has been a reply or replies. You can click in that, or repeat the Refresh action as above. (I find refreshing is a better choice, as otherwise, posts are sometimes not in correct order: but that might be something to do with my browser or other software.) So now you have no excuses for "missing" questions posed to you.

Oh, unkind. I would give the Dancing Prez a couple of minutes, during which Stallone would lounge on the ropes, laughing. Then, with a step forward, he'd swing a couple of mighty blows and knock the shoot out of the Dancing Prez. For this contest, we might allow hitting below the belt, as LCM seemed very keen on hitting below the belts of other men by, hitting on their wives. As to a fight with the Bus Driver, Stallone might have slightly more problem. The Bus Driver would draw his gun, as that is the source of his strength. Stallone would with one mighty punch knock the pea shooter from the Bus Driver's hand. G33r is such a slimy slippery thing that Stallone's initial blows might just slide off (!), but hopefully a good clonk to the solar plexus would release all the hot air that G33r is full of, and he would collapse on the floor like a spent balloon... or condom... ;) Let's say, another 15 seconds after having dealt with the Dancer.

That was what my ONE THING thread was about. Which Mike successfully derailed until it got locked. I don't believe there is ONE THING or indeed ANY thing.

Mike, I do feel sorry for you. I am very glad that PFAL delivered you from the sin-bondage of the RC church and showed you much greater truths about who God is, and his desires for his people. I'm very glad. Not just for you, but for all those other people who learned a lot of stuff that their churches, RC or otherwise, hadn't taught them. Myself included! If you paid attention to the posts all over GSC, you would see many people saying, Glad I got in, glad I got out. Presumably they are "glad" for similar reasons. However, what any good Bible teacher should do is always point you in the direction of Jesus Christ, his accomplishments, and through him to God, the creator of our entire universe. It's hard enough to fathom Jesus; it's impossible to get a full comprehension of God - and not even a smidgeon of comprehension outside of Jesus, and what is written about him in the OT and in the gospels and in the epistles. Glory must go to God, and to Jesus. The bad Bible teacher constantly draws attention to him/herself, and replaces Jesus as the focal point through which we must pass. The RC church usurped this function by installing a "Pope" [Father] and imposing mini-popes (ministers, also called Father). We don't need these people: but they may serve as guides, teachers, those who help us on our way. Your "thesis" is absurd because you haven't learned to see Jesus, to see God (in your heart) because a man has interposed himself in the Sonlight. That man casts a very long shadow in your life. There are better Bible versions than what you call KJV, actually AV; my preference is for Holman Christian Standard Bible (very readable); others prefer NIV (I don't like it); others RSV. There is a choice available! But the central themes are the same (despite your argument to the contrary). You will not find deliverance, salvation, peace of heart, or "what you need in life" in the writings of a man, and especially not in the writings of a man whose lifestyle was so perverse. If he couldn't convince himself of how to live life - why on earth should he be able to convince anyone else? To the extent that you do find "what you need in life" in PFAL written material, have you thought why? It's because the scriptures that are quoted are satisfying that need. I am sorry for you, because you are trying so hard and apparently expending so much effort to find the right path. But you are looking in completely the wrong place. Can't you see the Lord himself holding out his arms ready to welcome you? Waving and saying, "Here! I'm over here, come this way!"

"...Learn how to distinguish truth from error..." Even a stopped clock tells the right time twice a day.

Oh, and newbies... LCM was definitely >>into<< seeking out that seed woman. As in into having sex with her. So it is well reported here at the Cafe, by those in the know (not that I'm gossiping... )

Heh, when I was clearing out all my PFAL stuff, I came across the video. I'd thought it good at the time. Looked at it again decades later and couldn't get past the first five mins. But hey, it burnt beautifully in the log burner!