Twinky

Well, that sounds quite promising. Sounds good. One of the things that I have enjoyed about going to my church is that sometimes a familiar Bible passage will be read - and then the talk (sermon) is something so wildly different from the TWI "standard line" that it might as well be a different book altogether. But always, there is the Bible passage, and then an effort to link that to how we should be responding now, what our actions and heart should be - without ever "pointing the finger" and NEVER with any kind of bellowing, shouting, name-calling or bad language. Perhaps you can encourage these people you're hanging out with to read a variety of different Bible translations. You might find that very helpful, both in choice of words, and in how some passages are punctuated. Also try looking at one or some of the more modern "thought for thought" versions, considering why they chose a particular turn of phrase, and what that might communicate to people today. Frankly, now, I find it impossible to read, or hear read, the AV (what you call KJV), for a variety of reasons, one of which is the mindset I find myself being dragged back into, and dubious teaching brought back. There are other threads here about what Bible versions people prefer, and why. You do understand, don't you, that VPW chose AV not because "it's the most accurate" but because he pinched a class that had been started in it, then pinched other men's work (esp Bullinger's); and giving his versions of archaic language made him seem to be a scholar. In fact HE DID NOT understand the language or some of the turns of phrase. If he'd understood English, especially idiomatic English, and English grammar, some of his phony difficulties wouldn't even have been there for him to expound his great wisdom. And if he'd understood English, especially idiomatic English, and English grammar, there are in fact some real gems that he could have drawn from some passages.

Taxidev, nice that you've found a local fellowship that you can enjoy. My question is: these teachers - are they doers of what they say? even more, are they doers of what the Bible commands them to do? and do they lead others into doing by example? This will have a practical outworking of service to the community at large, regardless of whether they are Christian believers or other people? Are these teachers full of head knowledge, or has that head knowledge developed into really wise, gentle, ways of dealing with complex situations?

I'd agree, and perhaps this part can be split off from the original "cite his sources" thread.

I never saw "Staying Alive" but I just watched a couple of clips on YouTube. Wow! Yet more plagiarism!! Extended plagiarism!!!!

Sky, glad VPW was wrong, and you got to make up with your parents. You also got to see the clay feet of your tormentor. But he achieved his goal: bound you closer to himself, and there you remained, at least for his lifetime. So much for "builds harmony in the home." Only if your "home" is in a cult!!

Looks like re-editing might be a job for DWBH.

Why??? I find "mass" a weird thing ("communion," too; the Anglican version). Isn't it supposed to be a "sacred" meal? Since when did people have meals kneeling down with their hands cupped? Or drink wine, kneeling (unless they've had too much!)? Too much ritual, for my liking. Anyway, Wildcat, enjoy your spiritual journey wherever it takes you. There is much to learn, from humble Christians everywhere.

Yeah, yeah! Considerable improvement on the original.

Either. Both. But not 114 pages!

Maybe you could copy it and post it as a document, or at least an attachment, here?

That needs a WARNING, Rejoice. Hahahahahahahahahaha!!!

I cannot begin to tell you how horrifying it was, to learn about the sexual misdeeds at HQ and top leadership. All the years since they'd M&A'd me, all the mental anguish they'd caused me, and I'd been so sure they were right, whiter than white, simply wouldn't stand for adultery, child molestation and other shenanigans. There were a lot of allegations about the time I found out, about the RC church and its abuse of children. Smugly, I thought, "TWI would never behave like that!" No. They didn't. They behaved worse. I suppose there remains within me a residual anger at TWI and its LYING, FRAUD, MANIPULATION, ABUSE, that I could poke into life, but I prefer to use that residual anger to understand and help others who have been abused by those they trusted.

I was there. Most of you here - have only secondhand knowledge. Sky and OldSkool probably have first hand knowledge from Corps hookups. I had to listen to LCM's rants, live and in all spittle: front row seat, in fact. He spent months of Corps Nights ranting on about homos, 2 or 3 hour rants using foul language and foul descriptions of the alleged perverted activities these men did. Slandering people (men) who might or might not have been "guilty" of anything; these people just vanished from HQ and of course nobody had the opportunity to talk to them (one, I know, certainly had no such inclinations [blushes]). "Sniffing them out." "Spiritual suspicion." The first couple of rant-sessions, I thought, "There's obviously a problem here." But as the weeks turned into months, I wondered at his obsession with this. ("Methinks he doth protest too much."). There got to be some overspill into Sunday Night Service tapes. I wondered if he himself had a problem with homosexuality - whether he was a closet homosexual. I wondered at his sanity - but then, I was a newbie in-rez Corpswoman, and he was the spiritual leader; he knew better. In all of his rants, though, it was only males he ranted about - never about women with women. I find that interesting, sort of, now, knowing what I do. He was having it away with whatever women (other men's wives, single women, any women) for shorter or longer periods. I personally have talked with one woman who was his "squeeze" for a while; she told me in detail the sad tale of the decline of her marriage. And of LCM's role in that breakdown, his insidious comments about her cuckold husband. His wife was having it away with another woman, RFR, who herself "had him by the b---s," though only figuratively. (Perhaps this is where the serpent/lesbian idea crept in? It was a jibe against RFR.) But I only recall him ranting about females almost in passing. His obsession was men-with-men.

I don't give a f---. I'm free of that mind control and enjoy the ability to think and ponder over what I hear.

Yes, that's something they did to in rez Corps, usually in the first semester, and now and again at other times, too. There's some tiny trigger event, nothing significant, and it's an excuse to blast everyone in sight, threaten them, browbeat them some more. I think one of the provocations for throwing out my Corps was: we were out running, outside, one cold and frosty midwinter morning: the usual 6am wake-up. Ed Horney, Corps Coordinator, had decreed that we must all wear our hats. Now, if a person is running, something to be expected is - getting hot! - so some people took off their hats for a while towards the end of their runs. Adults, right? Able to make decisions as to personal comfort levels?? This crime of taking off one's hat was grounds for giving all of us a bo££ocking and threatening to throw all of us out for disobedience. Happily (?), we were all allowed to stay, providing we didn't dare stray into disobedience again. What? They'd rather we got heatstroke from being too bundled up? (Never mind injuring ourselves by slipping on the ice, or snow, that they were making us run on!!) There were occasional other events of this type.

Yep, your link works. I am offered "sub-channels" - Blaze, H2, Crime Investigation, etc. Can you send me a link to one of the episodes, and I can doubtless follow up from there and watch previous episodes. Thanks.

Penguin2, so sorry about the diagnosis that you've been given. I do believe that God desires health and healing for all, including and always, YOU; He made your magnificent body and He knows how to fix it. (But neither should we be foolish enough to ignore that sometimes the magnificence isn't fixed in this lifetime). Get pushy and demand healing. Meantime, while you're waiting, do what your docs tell you, and try to relax and enjoy life. Keep giving, keep sharing the gospel. And as to what the Mags told you: as the truth is usually diametrically opposite to what phony leadership pronounced, I'd suggest that instead of being the failure the Mags prophesied, you acknowledge they are false prophets; and the real truth is that you are in fact, in truth, a good wife and mom. Throw some ice-cold water on their fiery dart. You are still a seeker after God and the Lord Jesus, and that makes you anything but a failure. Jesus never called anyone a failure. He called them dear friends, companions, and empowered them.

Wish I could watch this program, but it's not available here. Aha! Just found some items by Lalich on YouTube. Might be worth a look.

Don’t know about “moving the Word,” but it strikes me that as far as WoG=WoG goes, this is the Will of God: Ezekiel 33:11- Say to them: 'As surely as I live, declares the Lord GOD, I take no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but rather that the wicked should turn from their ways and live. Turn! Turn from your evil ways! And I Tim 2:3-4 - This is good and pleasing in the sight of God our Savior, who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth. I doubt that much that we did helped people make the decision to “turn from their ways,” nor “come to a knowledge of the truth.” Unfortunately (God forgive us), too much that we did moved people into mere existence, and not “life in all its fullness.”

Yeah, LCM is in prison - with his Bible with the hand-turned pages. Much good that did him. FRAUDS the frikin lot of 'em.

"And if you ever want to talk, if you every want to do anything, we're here." In other words, YOU come to us. We are not going to find you (and apologise). No, Jacque. YOU come here, you apologise. You will get a lot of flack. But you might find a little forgiveness or compassion, too, IF if if you are humble enough. You will need to LISTEN and not to (pretend to) preach.

Blessed putrid be the fruit!

Stupid jargon phrase. Anyway, I don't know anybody except TWI that uses that phrase. Maybe, "speaking the Word" or "speaking the gospel" is better. In church we talk more about "outreach" or "evangelism." One of my favorite "hated phrases" is "the Word of God is the will of God." Sounds good. Pretty meaningless, at least in the way TWI used it.

This wasn't under VPW's reign. This was under LCM's reign. I can't remember if the Bible was for him, but probably so. Maybe a gift to commemorate the filming of the live Advanced Class? Or maybe someone, and some event, quite different. Most of you folk posting here are from the VPW era. Please don't bring everything back to that; those who suffered under LCM suffered a different reign of terror and manipulation. Servitude with a different flavor. Much worse, I think. I look back now and think, how could I ever have got so sucked into that state of mind? But it was that slow turn of the screw, the "short sharp shock" when we started in rez (with the lying promise of relaxation later) and the slow laying on of further burdens. Anybody else here from being in rez in the post-fog years? No doubt leadership of the time had their own set of burdens and pressures; Skyrider has written of some of these.