Twinky

Just got myself a new laptop, Dell Inspiron, preloaded with Windows 10 and a few MS bits and pieces (well, what isn't, these days?). A question or two for techies here. It uses Edge as a browser. Is it any good? Reliable? Stable? I am used to Firefox. Don't know whether I should download FF and use instead. Next question, and this is a real dorky one: I backed up all my stuff to the cloud before I took in my old (well-running) HP laptop for its "health check," which was a good thing that I did, as Curry's have managed to replace the hard disk and now they can't get it going again ("driver problems"). Hence my brand new computer. BUT how do I easily get my stuff OFF the cloud? I want everything on the laptop. Not in outer space to be hacked into by any high school kid that chances across it. Thanks in anticipation of your assistance!!

I'm all for telling how God is good, is faithful, cares. And giving examples. Happy to share with anyone how God is at work. If that's "moving the word," fine. What we never knew, much less said, was that in TWI it was "moving the goal posts" that was what was meant.

I also give monthly to Medicine San Frontiers aka Doctors Without Borders. Why? They're definitely not a Christian organization. Why? Because I'm so thankful for the extraordinary access and free healthcare available to me under our National Health Service. Some people have to walk days for medical treatment and even then it's not good. MSF provides services in remote areas, free of charge. I can't help those citizens directly, but indirectly via MSF works for me. And, of course, because God makes his rain, his blessings, fall on the just and the unjust. He has compassion on the needy. He doesn't expect payment, just thanks, and sometimes he gets it.

I belong to two churches here. One I rarely support except for special things. Nobody ever enquires. There are occasionally invitations to donate. The other, that I regard as my main church, is a group of churches very active in supporting the community. Again, regular attendees are invited to donate, but nobody knows who does or doesn't, and there's absolutely no compulsion. I give, because I WANT to, because I know it costs money to help those with nothing. To provide the weekly free meal and hangout time for very lonely, or rather strange, or really impoverished, people hereabouts. To run after-school clubs, homework club, toddler group for young mums. To pay for the outgoings on our building and to heat it. Why would I NOT want to support that? And every year, the church treasurers present a report to explain how money is spent and answer any questions. Oh, and both churches support external groups - partner ministries overseas and such like. Sometimes an individual or couple undertaking work in Christian or non-Christian communities overseas. The question isn't whether one should donate or not, but is there compulsion? And who benefits from the money received?

I am soooo glad to be snuggled into a vibrant Christian community, where words are profound yet simple, and actions abound in service to others. I know this : if I'd known then of church communities like those I'm involved with now, I'd have called some of the things I saw when I was first beginning to get involved with TWI for what they were - unkind, unloving, egotistical. Scratch the surface of R&R. Hmm. Wonder what's underneath?

I just read the last 4 or 5 pages of this thread, lost patience earlier with it. But I thought I'd see if anything had changed. Grief, these groups, the people, are so full of ego, and nothing about genuine humility. "I can teach you this, that - and the other." Don't we have a holy spirit to help us? Don't we have lots of other GENUINE teachers? Those who teach with words (preachers) and those who teach by example, the ones at the coalface getting their hands dirty helping the vulnerableand disadvantaged?

Oh, thanks, T-Bone, for your kind words, but really I'm just a nobody trying to help a few people less fortunate than myself. I think God gave me a few "smarts" in trust to help others. And he gave me great parents to model how to help, selflessly. And God is kind enough to help all of us who want to help others. Even those who later behaved callously. I think most had a genuine desire to help others, originally. Then TWI perverted them with promiscuity coupledwith supposed "tough love." I pray they can recover their true Godly selves one day.

Hey, Chocky, your response seems a bit OTT. You've enjoyed posting here for some years. Why notoffer help in some way - financially or as an administrator, or in some other way.

Dunno, .T-Bone. I always thought of people's situations and tried to help. But then, I also thought that TWI was the answer. I wasn't a good salesman, but caring and being interested in people did encourage or even entice people to want to know more about TWI's wares. But ask some leaders for help ... I met some great caring folk. And some really hard ones, that you wouldn't naturally want to turn to. And I also watched so move from the first group to the second group. Not sure that I ever saw second group move to the first group. Glad to be out. I don't have to take my minister's advice, turn to him or her for help; there are many Christian people I know whose advice I can take seriously should I choose to seek it.

Hey Bramble. I enjoyed your posts. Good to hear from you again. Glad you'vegot a life. And a hubby. Life's good.

Mmmmm - just checked in after my vacation. I find myself wondering what you are on about and if you are on vacation, or at least your head is, in some very unusual place. In other words, what are you talking about?

Which kinda demands the questions: what about figures of speech? which are certainly NOT literal. And usage at what time period? Because surely also, words change meanings. Which VPW made a big deal of - mainly because he was soooo ignorant that he didn't actually understand the English language, never mind any ancient languages. Maybe - literals according to AB-usage? Or even - be-littles according to usage?

Try this link. You might need to rummage around a fair bit. http://www.greasespotcafe.com:80/waydale/main/lawsuit-main.htm

Maybe you should try editing the "Cults" Wiki page?

Welcome, Sugarrush. When did you leave? I know all of them. And so do others here. They've had different experiences in TWI but they've all been in leadership positions. And they all know enough to speak out and condemn the evil that there is in TWI. They don't need to "revive and restore" what has caused so much damage in so many lives. What they do need is to involve themselves in the wider Christian church, that's out there doing and not merely talking about doing. They need to acknowledge the genuine good work (and "believing") of others, and they need to acknowledge the evils and bad work of TWI, both from its beginning and to this day.

Isn't that a statement from PFAL? Plagiarised, of course, though who knows who or what from.

First, WELCOME, AlohaAnn, sounds like you've been a lurker for a while. Good to know our historic posts are still helping people. Well done on escaping yourself. Second, FAB NEWS that your daughter has escaped. I'm sure (as you've been out for a while) that your heart is leaping with joy. You can build some healthy family ties and get to enjoy your grandchildren and be a lovely, "spoiling" granny. Your daughter and her husband have a long way to go, but that they have seen for themselves that the emperor has no clothes is a great start. They have seen enough to know that all is not well in Waybrain. Now they need patience and help to disentangle themselves from the myriad lies in thought and behaviour. You of all people know that they may well be a little weird in their thinking patterns. Be patient, love 'em up big, especially the grandkids - they often have a lot of difficulty. Haere mai!

Interesting take on an old story, Bolshy One.

And now to bring this back to the thread title: I said earlier that the first sin of mankind was a failure to understand God. And there seems to be plenty of evidence of that, in the way this thread has taken a sudden turn. People! Not one of us can wholly understand God, and especially not alone. Let's not have infighting, even where we disagree with each other. Rom 12:16 - Live in harmony with each other. Don't be too proud to enjoy the company of ordinary people. And don't think you know it all! (NLT) Prov 3:7 - Don't be impressed with your own wisdom. Instead, fear the LORD and turn away from evil. (NLT) You remember from PFAL how VPW said Eve's problem was that she "considered" what the serpent had to say. VPW used this as his pretext for getting us to not consider other viewpoints. Can I say, I'd think that her "problem" was not that she "considered," but that she didn't go to the fountain of wisdom to ask "Why?" but instead listened to other another source of "wisdom" (the serpent) that was way off beam. There are many reputable people out there now who do sincerely honour God and do their best to present an honest viewpoint (rather than set out to deceive), but their viewpoints are inevitably coloured by many things, and they may not be wholly accurate. So don't hang your hat on them and their viewpoints. Love God (and his wisdom) first, and then love your fellow man (and his wisdom). James 3:17 - But the wisdom from above is first of all pure. It is also peace loving, gentle at all times, and willing to yield to others. (NLT)

In any event, the "first sin" wasn't anything sexual at all. The first sin was lack of understanding, leading to God-rejection, leading to disobedience. Tempter: "Hey, try this activity." Mankind: "Not supposed to do that." Tempter: "Why not?" Mankind: "Don't know. God said, but I don't know why." Tempter: "You can be like God." Mankind: "Hmm, why not?" Tempter: "If you do this, you will be wise like God." Mankind: "Hmm, yeah, sounds all right to me, I'll give it a go." Mankind: does the forbidden thing. Tempter: "Here you are. You're wise now. You understand what a f-up you've done. Have some guilt and shame, and a few other byproducts of disobedience-awareness." It isn't just God-rejection, which itself is a symptom; it's failure to understand of God, who God is, and what he does. Mankind, who had walked and talked with God, surely knew who'd made the animals and the plants and everything else. Perhaps mankind saw creatures copulating, reproducing, young being born or hatched (Gen 1:23) and didn't see themselves (mankind) also increasing (Gen 1:27) because they didn't understand the process, or the timescale, or for some other reason. Rom 1:18ff is all about failure to understand. They knew God... didn't glorify him... understanding became darkened. They did not (Rom 1:28) "think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God" so (then) "God gave them over to a depraved mind." If you read this section of Romans carefully, it appears to say that idolatry came before sexual sin. But the lead-in is the failure to see and understand what may be known about God, "God's invisible qualities - his eternal power and divine nature - have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse." (NIV, Rom 1:20) Which is why we are urged in Proverbs 4 (AV/KJV)

I thought that, exactly. Happily, I don't think I could remember a thing within minutes afterwards. I certainly have no recollection now, and please, nobody remind me!

So, knowing what you knew when you were at that Adv Class - did you take the opportunity to tell those present that you were leaving, and explain at length WHY you were leaving?

Love the movie clip, T-Bone.

If (as was taught by VPW, and therefore probably also by JAL) Christians are the real Israel - then wouldn't Jesus's words apply to us? And while we're about it - Judeans (or Judeans and Benjaminites) are not "Israel," much less "all Israel" - they're just a couple of the tribes of Israel. There were a lot more tribes, who got hived off into the "northern kingdom" as a result of David's disobedience. The other tribes (still Israel) became ruled by Jeroboam and were led deeply into idolatry, worship of golden calves, etc. So. Israel. Just Judeans and Benjamites? The whole of the 12 tribes? Spiritual Israel - the Christian church? The Bible makes a heck of a lot more sense if read without PFAL-coloured glasses. Which part or parts of Jesus's words in Mt 5 (for example) don't apply to the Christian church (only the bit about the sanhedrin? Bring up to date with modern "authorities" and attitudes, and well, there you are, a bad attitude can lead to a very bad outcome.

I think this might be an appropriate place to add a small anecdote about the Body working together. A friend and I were on holiday, in France. Friend was driving. A very minor accident occurred; friend was reversing slowly round a corner because we'd missed our turning; a Frenchwoman was coming forward round the same corner. It was "our fault." Ms French was understandably upset and berated us vigorously. The damage was slight: only a broken trim round her headlight, nothing to our vehicle. We didn't know what to do, couldn't speak adequate French, didn't know if it had to be reported to a gendarme, could imagine horrible consequences. It was getting very stressful. There seemed no-one in sight. Suddenly two young women arrived, quickly sized up the situation. One helped Ms French phone the Lancia dealer and the other calmed everyone down and explained in good English what was happening. It turned out that she had been a missionary in London for a couple of years. Amazing! It was established that the part would cost about 17 or 18 euros. Ms French was offered 40 euros (to compensate for her trouble). Despite her noisy outrage, she refused to accept that much, even finding the English to say, "Too much;" she accepted 20 euros. And off she went, quite happy. We thanked the young women, looked back at our car - looked round for the women again, and they'd vanished. Question: were they ministering angels? Probably not, though they do go around in pairs. I think they were real live, human beings, part of the Body, that the Lord himself had sent to help us in that situation. We found a small chapel and offered prayers of thanks. The kicker is: they were Jehovah's Witnesses - part of a sect (some say cult) that many would deny are in fact Christian.