Twinky

Above post continues: If you would prefer from a Jewish background, try this, same laws, slightly different order, which expands rather more about each Law (from https://www.myjewishlearning.com/article/the-noahide-laws/). You can also google "laws of Noah" and bring up your own references. Could you point out which one of these (the post above, and this one below) reflects your view that Noah observed the Sabbath? Maybe there is a verse in Genesis that says this explicitly? I can't recall one, off-hand, but it's a while since I read the story of Noah, and NT commentary on him.

I wonder, Waxit, if you are aware of what's known as the Noahide laws, or the seven laws of Noah? From Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seven_Laws_of_Noah

Getting easier as I read more. Mostly dispensed with the very long sentences. Reporting fairly unemotionally on the unimaginable horror that was Crakow at the time. It's the sentence structure that conveys the horror, the confusion, the hopes and the fragility.

I've just started reading Schindler's Ark (the book upon which the hit movie Schindler's List is based, and now re-released under that title). The author, Thomas Keneally, is a novelist by trade. He has collected many accounts of Schindler from Jewish survivors and other sources, and put this book together in novel-style, though he is at pains to point out that only the dialogue is fictional, and that that follows known patterns or summarises known conversations. It's what's known as a "non-fiction novel" and the author won the Booker Prize for it. We all know the story. I thought the book might be more pacey. It's not at all pacey. Some sentences are short, graphic. Others are long, covering five or six or eight or more lines, quite convoluted, lots of clauses and subclauses, asides, details: you have to read twice if not more to get the sense of the sentence. Keneally is anxious to sketch out this man Schindler, to show the readers his complexity; and to show the slow, inexorable, degradation of the Jewish population of Crakow. And, indeed, the slow, inexorable, degradation of the German population, to think that such treatment of other human beings is acceptable. I believe that's what the author intended. So far, I've read four chapters; it's taking time. As it happens, I've visited Crakow [Krakow]. I can picture some of the locations. I know the official view of the current population; in fact, they claim to treasure the Jewish population now, by way of apology, and there's a nice Jewish centre. But the populace has changed its mind once, from companionable living together in a thriving community, to rabid hatred and mass murder; and now they treasure this population group? I wonder. I wonder at myself - what would it take for me to behave like that? Would I be sucked in (I was sucked in by one organisation that we all know)? Or would I take a stand against? Such thoughts come from a slower-moving piece of literature. https://www.amazon.com/Schindlers-List/dp/B00NBELTP2/ref=sr_1_13?crid=1VFRMYE62F86Z&dchild=1&keywords=schindlers+ark&qid=1587823061&s=books&sprefix=schindlers+ar%2Caps%2C223&sr=1-13

Good post, Modgellan.

Waxit has certainly made life interesting these past few days. I can't think of another time when the entire Café was busy throwing buns at one person - not even Mike, with his rather unusual ideas. When coming from our many varied perspectives, we all spoke with one voice and decried Waxit. I wish him well, and if he has other input on other topics - get posting!

Heh, I recall when in-rez I wandered into Plurality Palace (a give-away location, for those who haven't been to HQ). There were some books on a shelf and (being a prolific and avid reader of just about anything) I sat down and started flipping through one. No idea what the book was about (a novel, perhaps?) but my priggish Corps sisters came in, saw me, and threatened to report me to the Corps Coordinator if I didn't stop immediately and come outside. She would have done, too, and been commended for doing so. I surrendered my guilty pleasure, complied, and went with her. Ohhh - petty minds.

To be honest, I still find it hard to settle down to read the Bible, and for a long time after my exit, all I could read was condemnation. When I do settle to read or study, I really enjoy it and am surprised constantly at all the wonderful gems there are. So much was withheld from us - we were given a diet and kept so busy that it was hard to find time to look at non-SNS or non-Corps or other non-class stuff unless it was the basis for the current rant. One of the best ways of getting back into reading the Bible was to pick up The Message, with its wildly different terminology. Really makes you look twice. Now, for preference, I use Holman Christian Standard Bible, which is in good, modern English and seems to convey accurately (according to what I now understand) the intention behind the words; I also look at many other versions.

Waxit, please stop being so insulting. Particularly towards me (is that because you know me?). And do NOT attribute things to me that I haven't said. There is one VPW worshipper between you and me, AND IT ISN'T, AND NEVER HAS BEEN, ME! You may think you are not a VPW-worshipper, and you do speak against his behaviour (quite rightly) but (together with an overlay of other things you have read later) you continue to : refer to, quote, use, and otherwise adhere to, many of the things he taught in PFAL, in a way that sounds, whether you mean it or not, like a VPW-worshipper. .

How sinful of you, T-Bone, to read those! Without having been properly instructed by VPW!!!

Waxit, I am not unduly influencing anybody here - as if!!! And, as I said, I am firm in my belief that if the obvious is incorrect, the less obvious is suspect. I'm not saying anything about your spelling, though I'm sure you do know better. "Realiability" better. And BTW, you still misspelled Allan's name!!!

Some people, present company excepted, could spend some time learning basic grammar and spelling. That would significantly improve their thinking ability. Completely agree that reading "classic" literature, or other older material, requires more "thinking" ability, and the ability to hold a thought for more than the nanosecond needed for pulp fiction. Some older material, indeed, is very densely written, and difficult to understand when it goes on for several lines; yet amazingly, it's grammatically written despite its many clauses. But wait! If something is written with long sentences and some parts of the same literature are written with short sentences, that gives the reader the opportunity to think, "What other thought is the author trying to convey here?"

Waxit, not overly impressed with your ability to see, understand and learn. You said: Well, you quoted the post from the person you are replying to. And if you look carefully, at the quote you posted, it's headed with his "handle" and with the slightest amount of attention, you will see he is called ALLAN - not Alan. Indeed, I know you've known this man for - gosh, it must be 30 years. And he's posted on this very thread several times. You say you do all this study "because [you] love people." One of the fundamentals to demonstrate that you love people is to get their name right. Something I carry away from TWI is: if people can't get the obvious correct, they surely are not reliable in what they say about what's less obvious.

Absolutely, on both points. We didn't acquire "an in-depth understanding and spiritual awareness" (and words added later "of the Word" => "an in-depth understanding and spiritual awareness of the Word") we acquired an in-depth MISunderstanding and spiritual DULLNESS. Never mind "iron sharpeneth iron" and those constant reproof sessions; and "fear is sand in the machinery of life" - sanding is a way of quickly dulling a sharp blade, and the in rez Corps were certainly put into fear by constant reproof and correction sessions pointing out minor faults (and especially where those "faults" were a query about a leadership decision).

Now you're winding Waxit up, Waysider.

After so many shocking revelations of sexual assaults in church settings - priests assaulting choirboys, female congregation members, and such like - well. When news of such assaults really started to come forth a decade or more ago, I recall thinking, "Wow, that's dreadful, it would never happen in TWI, such a Godly organisation, it would be stamped on immediately and the perpetrators thrown out." (You have to remember, Martindale's homo purges had taken place while I was in rez.) Ho ho, what a blind fool I was! I had no idea that sexual assault started at the top in TWI and had been going on since the beginning. At least in the UK, all churches, schools, etc now have Safeguarding policies and those in positions of responsibility or influence over or contact with any vulnerable members of the group (congregation, scholars, etc) are subject to criminal records clearance - this is not just whether they have a criminal conviction, but also includes whether there have been serious suspicions about someone but insufficient evidence to support a criminal conviction. Churches are combing old records to see if there are historical records that have been swept under the carpet. This is very good for both church/school leadership PoV and also for the vulnerable groups so protected. Certainly in the Family Corps, all leadership there would be vetted now. Not at HQ particularly, except for those involved with children's groups. I wonder if TWI does have a Safeguarding policy - and if so, how effective it really is. But even so, I don't know that that would protect adult females, who are supposed to be able to make decisions for themselves. Unfortunately the adult women were made vulnerable by faulty teaching and much other abuse. And of course, no women managed to report it to police or even, effectively, to any leader in TWI.

The lockbox concept itself was abusive. Sure, some things should be kept confidential, covered over, not bandied about openly. It's right to be discreet, if something has been told in confidence. And sometimes, it's right to break the confidence, if keeping it may cause harm to others. But many, most, things should be open, should be able to be discussed. VPW introduced this idea of "lockbox" even between spouses, not so that men could hide secrets from wives, or vice versa, but so that he himself, VPW, could hide his assaults on women and say that it was "lockbox" between him and another man's wife, that the other man didn't need to know about. And that - is evil.

Keep it in one place, please. Doesn't need to sprawl all over the Café.

Reads like the green card.

Funny fellow, T-Bone, you put yourself down too much. I know you've done a lot of careful and very deep thinking.

I do recall being at RoA whilst being in rez, and people from my country came to that RoA and wanted to see me. These are people who have come from overseas, paying out not insignificant air fares (and generally paying those from a generally lower income level than in the USA), to come and hang out; and naturally, as most of them were also supporting me as my spiritual partners, wanted to spend a little time with me. This was not permitted at all by my shift leader - and as we all know, shifts were basically all day, every day. Some of my people came to find me. And some I met by sneaking off for just a few minutes. Wasn't even allowed to spend an hour with them as a group. Pathetic.

Gosh, I found one of those Red Thread long-sleeve shirts the other day. Had forgotten I'd got it. It could be a nice shirt to wear, but I don't like its connotations. And no doubt it has TWI's name all over it and I wouldn't want to "advertise" them. Might have to make dusters or some such out of it.

True, Rocky. My bad.

You might ask if God ever changed his mind about this - because originally when the Israelite nation was founded, it was itself supposed to be a beacon of God's love, to show the nations and thus draw all peoples from all nations to Him. And this group of people was only chosen because God's pre-Israelite plan for all to know Him had failed due to people's egocentricity and hardheartedness. Genesis 11: 1Now the whole world had one language and a common form of speech. 2And as people journeyed eastward,a they found a plain in the land of Shinarb and settled there. 3And they said to one another, “Come, let us make bricks and bake them thoroughly.” So they used brick instead of stone, and tar instead of mortar. 4“Come,” they said, “let us build for ourselves a city with a tower that reaches to the heavens, that we may make a name for ourselves and not be scattered over the face of all the earth.” 5Then the LORD came down to see the city and the tower that the sons of men were building. 6And the LORD said, “If they have begun to do this as one people speaking the same language, then nothing they devise will be beyond them. 7Come, let Us go down and confuse their language, so that they will not understand one another’s speech.” 8So the LORD scattered them from there over the face of all the earth, and they stopped building the city. 9That is why it is called Babel,c for there the LORD confused the language of the whole world, and from that place the LORD scattered them over the face of all the earth. God's plan had been for all to know him, as in the beginning with Adam and Eve. But people's egos got in the way, right from the beginning, and going forward even to today. You could say, He changed his mind and scattered the tower-builders (and thus, the nations); then (maybe) changed His mind back (Plan C, D, or whatever) - resumed the original plan - when establishing Israel. But Israel was itself only a "temporary measure" because God's plan (1 Tim 2:4) has always been for "all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth."

Dotty was the "Dean"? I recall when out Lightbearers, we ran a foundational class and this young male was thrilled to receive his certificate. Said it was the first certificate for anything that he'd ever received. Hm. Had forgotten all about the certs, though I didn't forget his pleasure at getting one.