Twinky

Where to now, for JY? Seems to me there are three choices: 1. Stay with TWI in whatever role is now assigned to him. 2. Depart TWI and start his own splinter group. Not sure he'd be welcome at R&R. 3. Depart TWI and get a real job. What do you put on your resume, when you've been booted from being the (apparent) head honcho?

They moved onto "The Prevailing Word" after "Word Over the World." So clearly, it didn't prevail very successfully if they had to go back to "Word Over the World." Anyhow, they don't mean "Word Over the World" so much as "Way over the World." In which, thanks be, they have failed dismally. Somehow, "Way International over the World," honest though it may be, doesn't quite have the allure (?) of the catchphrase "Word over the World."

400 years? Jews have apparently been counting for over 5500 years. In fact, today: 14 April 2020 / Gregorian calendar 20 Nisan 5780 Do you say also that Adam and Eve had a sabbath day which fell on a Saturday? Are you really sure, like really really sure, about the actual day the world was finished being created, and upon which God rested?

You're right, that'd be very transparent. So much for "word over the world." Normal religious institutions (churches and suchlike) are posting services, sermons, short homilies, uplifting hymns, songs, and music; offering a normal-ish Sunday service to all who want to log onto the church's website/YouTube channel, etc etc. That's making the "word" freely available to all. I also know the churches both individually and collectively are carrying out their sub-ministries as best they can - ensuring that people get food, get debt help, get regular phone calls or online meetings; Children's ministers put together activities for children of various ages; Seniors ministers facilitate conference calls to others in the seniors group. I believe also my own church has helped re-house one or two women from domestic violence situations that have flared up or got worse during lockdown. And no doubt TWI is still singing the same song from its gilded cage without realising no-one is listening.

Me too. Waxit's proposition was raised in open forum; should be responded to in open forum. Waxit, I have your PM. A page and a half is hardly succinct. I'd expected no more than two paragraphs. I am not remotely interested in reading a 80+ page document about a topic I'm not bothered about, and where its proponent is not concerned to make it interesting or relevant. It may be better if any discussion of how many crucified be kept to those threads, rather than jumbling all that up, too, on this thread. Does it matter, in context of this thread, if it were 2, 4 or a hundred or more?

They are still sending out "Way Disciples"? Must be even more interesting living with a bunch of strangers - and having to "witness" to people from 6ft away. What's the justification for driving from Georgia to Ohio? Most churches are doing their services online by compilation of individual segments pre-recorded by the sermon-preacher, the prayer leader, the music group, and others involved. Perhaps that's too technical for TWI. In, or at, what did JYdL say he'd failed?

Okay, no answer then. Not interested in lengthy essays by other people; you have a voice. Use your own words. Be succinct, if you care to respond. Over and out. Bye.

Some of you might enjoy this, a bit zippier than you might have sung it before:

@ Waxit. I asked you this question (among others) and await your response. It appears to me that you are missing the point, in a big way. Mt 23:23 I think you're busy focussing on the "letter of the law" and forgetting the more important matters: justice, mercy and faithfulness (so Jesus says). But those are, in fact, the details of life that I focus on. May I have your answer, please, to the question I put to you on 8 April?

I've got a very good life. Don't hang out here so much, but I do look in to see if there's anybody new, who I can help to "get a life."

I think I'm done with this conversation. There is no need to be insulting just because someone presents a different and well-thought-out view.

Ah, no, we aren't the "spiritual seed" if we obey as you state. What's your chapter and verse on your proposition? And don't forget, Abraham was born and died waaaay before Moses was even a twinkle in his dad's eye, never mind the time when he was given the ten commandments. Abraham is "pre-law" or "patriarchal" (for those who are into "dispensations"). Therefore, you can't say that Abraham "obeyed the law" as it was later written down. Obeyed different (unwritten) laws, maybe. We can't know what, with precision.

This is why they wouldn't be assembling to discuss religious stuff except on one day/week. If you are seeing a commandment to keep the sabbath, you should also see a commandment to work a full six-day week. This extract is from Deuteronomy, but the Exodus version of the 10Cs reads similarly. I guess if you're not working a six day week, you can't be said to be keeping the sabbath properly. Furthermore, you shouldn't be causing anyone else to break the sabbath, by going out for Sunday (or maybe Saturday) lunch, no shopping at the mall or elsewhere, not driving your car (perhaps equivalent to your animal). Only reason to "work" was for humanitarian reasons: medical emergencies, feeding one's animals, etc. To this day, observant Jews won't turn on a light switch (that's "making a fire" - forbidden elsewhere) or cook a meal (fire, work). They stay home - but they fake home by stringing wires between houses to "enclose" them so that they can walk about and visit each other. Personally I see that as ridiculous and getting close to mocking the Lord, but each to his own.

As well as what WW indicates, it's likely that people worked all day every day and the "sabbath" was the only day off. The only day the men weren't about their business of tending cattle, fields, trading, etc; women more likely in the home tending children, or doing household tasks, or maybe trading. In the evenings, people would eat at home and generally stay home (agricultural community: early to bed, early to rise) or hang out with nearby friends. The times for meeting would be market days (which may have happened on most days, but it's still work, not time to discuss at length) and at "weekends" ie sabbath days. So when else would the Gentiles, or anybody else for that matter, have time to discuss further? I think that what's more important here is that some (but by no means all) of the Jews of Antioch were at that time willing to hear, to consider; and that the community was enlightened and open enough that Gentiles could also hear the message. It might be interesting also to consider where this next reported meeting took place. "Almost the whole city came together" - but not necessarily in the synagogue (smallish building) nor in a temple (with a Court of the Gentiles). In fact, almost certainly not, because the holier-than-thou Jews then got ticked off at Paul & Co. 44 On the next Sabbath almost the whole city gathered [where??] to hear the word of the Lord. 45 When the Jews saw the crowds, they were filled with jealousy. They began to contradict what Paul was saying and heaped abuse on him.. Maybe in the agora/market place? We know from Acts 17 that Paul "reasoned" with people in the market place, having made himself unpopular in the synagogue.

Not "all Christians," Waxit. All Israelites (ie, not just Judeans or "Jews") - yes. All Christians - no. Can you tell us why this issue (above all issues) is important to you? I ask, because there are so many other things we've discussed here at the Café that appear more relevant to our daily lives.

Names of days are arbitrary; in fact, most days are named after pagan gods. When a named day falls is arbitrary. If you're going to get really precise, you have to count the 7th day from the original first "day of rest." Don't envy you that task. Please have a little more respect for people here. You have knocked some very thoughtful people. We have reached our current views after long heart-searching, after sometimes painful journeys out of the bullying and dogmatic approach of TWI. No-one here needs anyone else to try to order us to think in a particular way. By all means, present your argument - for discussion, not for dogma or doctrine. I know you are passionate to understand God and to do your best. Please accept that others are, also, and we are all at different places of our understanding of God. Do what's right for you, now.

Don't you mean, Bored of (Mis)Directors?

Ain't that the truth! How it all overlooks that God is a God of common sense. He doesn't ask us to do stupid things. He asks us to embed his word in our hearts and then act accordingly. Acting against, or ignoring, common sense is "tempting God." Did Jesus think he could fly? Jump off the temple? Did he do stupid things? No. But he could go above and beyond common sense where he needed to. Relationships and lives have been ruined because some leader intervened in a situation about which he had no knowledge whatsoever, but spouted off whatever "wisdom" or random thought he happened to think at the time. And if such "wisdom" were ignored, and then there was a negative outcome, it was the other person's fault because they didn't listen to the wisdom. Never mind that the situation could have been even worse if it were followed. All a sham. And a shame.

Sea water stops coronavirus. (At least, a lot of young people seem to think so. Especially in New Zealand, Australia, possibly places in Africa - and in Texas). https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/01/us/coronavirus-texas-austin-spring-break-cabo.html

Looks like something based on Bullinger's structures. With a few added bits that may or may not mean something. Is that right?

One of the things we should remember is that when God got around to fashioning our world, he did things - from rest to rest. And the evening and the morning were the first/second/… day. Your day starts from rest (sunset the day before, reset through the night, work through the day, then returns to rest in the evening. Too often we think our day starts when we get up. It doesn't it starts earlier than that: when you rest. And your working week also starts from that position of rest: a time to relax, unwind, enjoy God, breathe, before a full-on week … then rest again.

I work hard, and it's quite physical at times. Generally, I don't do any work on Sunday (unless I have to care for someone, visit and help them in their home). I go to my lovely "community" church and am welcomed by friends. There's so much hanging around both before and after the service! Maybe have lunch with a friend at their house. Then, I maybe go for a long walk and enjoy the freedom of it and relish God's beauty in the fields and wildlife around me. Or I tend my own garden and again, relish God's beauty and ability to provide. Maybe (though not lately nor foreseeably) I visit my Mum. If I don't have this time to rest, the following week is much harder, more tiring. People: take time to breathe. Time to smell the roses. Time to appreciate God's beauty in all the things around you. In the people around you. You need a rest.

United still going? Haven't they gone bust yet, like other airlines?

Sorry, the Quote bit went wrong for me - again. But you can figure out what's what, I'm sure.