Twinky

Waxit has certainly made life interesting these past few days. I can't think of another time when the entire Café was busy throwing buns at one person - not even Mike, with his rather unusual ideas. When coming from our many varied perspectives, we all spoke with one voice and decried Waxit. I wish him well, and if he has other input on other topics - get posting!

Heh, I recall when in-rez I wandered into Plurality Palace (a give-away location, for those who haven't been to HQ). There were some books on a shelf and (being a prolific and avid reader of just about anything) I sat down and started flipping through one. No idea what the book was about (a novel, perhaps?) but my priggish Corps sisters came in, saw me, and threatened to report me to the Corps Coordinator if I didn't stop immediately and come outside. She would have done, too, and been commended for doing so. I surrendered my guilty pleasure, complied, and went with her. Ohhh - petty minds.

To be honest, I still find it hard to settle down to read the Bible, and for a long time after my exit, all I could read was condemnation. When I do settle to read or study, I really enjoy it and am surprised constantly at all the wonderful gems there are. So much was withheld from us - we were given a diet and kept so busy that it was hard to find time to look at non-SNS or non-Corps or other non-class stuff unless it was the basis for the current rant. One of the best ways of getting back into reading the Bible was to pick up The Message, with its wildly different terminology. Really makes you look twice. Now, for preference, I use Holman Christian Standard Bible, which is in good, modern English and seems to convey accurately (according to what I now understand) the intention behind the words; I also look at many other versions.

Waxit, please stop being so insulting. Particularly towards me (is that because you know me?). And do NOT attribute things to me that I haven't said. There is one VPW worshipper between you and me, AND IT ISN'T, AND NEVER HAS BEEN, ME! You may think you are not a VPW-worshipper, and you do speak against his behaviour (quite rightly) but (together with an overlay of other things you have read later) you continue to : refer to, quote, use, and otherwise adhere to, many of the things he taught in PFAL, in a way that sounds, whether you mean it or not, like a VPW-worshipper. .

How sinful of you, T-Bone, to read those! Without having been properly instructed by VPW!!!

Waxit, I am not unduly influencing anybody here - as if!!! And, as I said, I am firm in my belief that if the obvious is incorrect, the less obvious is suspect. I'm not saying anything about your spelling, though I'm sure you do know better. "Realiability" better. And BTW, you still misspelled Allan's name!!!

Some people, present company excepted, could spend some time learning basic grammar and spelling. That would significantly improve their thinking ability. Completely agree that reading "classic" literature, or other older material, requires more "thinking" ability, and the ability to hold a thought for more than the nanosecond needed for pulp fiction. Some older material, indeed, is very densely written, and difficult to understand when it goes on for several lines; yet amazingly, it's grammatically written despite its many clauses. But wait! If something is written with long sentences and some parts of the same literature are written with short sentences, that gives the reader the opportunity to think, "What other thought is the author trying to convey here?"

Waxit, not overly impressed with your ability to see, understand and learn. You said: Well, you quoted the post from the person you are replying to. And if you look carefully, at the quote you posted, it's headed with his "handle" and with the slightest amount of attention, you will see he is called ALLAN - not Alan. Indeed, I know you've known this man for - gosh, it must be 30 years. And he's posted on this very thread several times. You say you do all this study "because [you] love people." One of the fundamentals to demonstrate that you love people is to get their name right. Something I carry away from TWI is: if people can't get the obvious correct, they surely are not reliable in what they say about what's less obvious.

Absolutely, on both points. We didn't acquire "an in-depth understanding and spiritual awareness" (and words added later "of the Word" => "an in-depth understanding and spiritual awareness of the Word") we acquired an in-depth MISunderstanding and spiritual DULLNESS. Never mind "iron sharpeneth iron" and those constant reproof sessions; and "fear is sand in the machinery of life" - sanding is a way of quickly dulling a sharp blade, and the in rez Corps were certainly put into fear by constant reproof and correction sessions pointing out minor faults (and especially where those "faults" were a query about a leadership decision).

Now you're winding Waxit up, Waysider.

After so many shocking revelations of sexual assaults in church settings - priests assaulting choirboys, female congregation members, and such like - well. When news of such assaults really started to come forth a decade or more ago, I recall thinking, "Wow, that's dreadful, it would never happen in TWI, such a Godly organisation, it would be stamped on immediately and the perpetrators thrown out." (You have to remember, Martindale's homo purges had taken place while I was in rez.) Ho ho, what a blind fool I was! I had no idea that sexual assault started at the top in TWI and had been going on since the beginning. At least in the UK, all churches, schools, etc now have Safeguarding policies and those in positions of responsibility or influence over or contact with any vulnerable members of the group (congregation, scholars, etc) are subject to criminal records clearance - this is not just whether they have a criminal conviction, but also includes whether there have been serious suspicions about someone but insufficient evidence to support a criminal conviction. Churches are combing old records to see if there are historical records that have been swept under the carpet. This is very good for both church/school leadership PoV and also for the vulnerable groups so protected. Certainly in the Family Corps, all leadership there would be vetted now. Not at HQ particularly, except for those involved with children's groups. I wonder if TWI does have a Safeguarding policy - and if so, how effective it really is. But even so, I don't know that that would protect adult females, who are supposed to be able to make decisions for themselves. Unfortunately the adult women were made vulnerable by faulty teaching and much other abuse. And of course, no women managed to report it to police or even, effectively, to any leader in TWI.

The lockbox concept itself was abusive. Sure, some things should be kept confidential, covered over, not bandied about openly. It's right to be discreet, if something has been told in confidence. And sometimes, it's right to break the confidence, if keeping it may cause harm to others. But many, most, things should be open, should be able to be discussed. VPW introduced this idea of "lockbox" even between spouses, not so that men could hide secrets from wives, or vice versa, but so that he himself, VPW, could hide his assaults on women and say that it was "lockbox" between him and another man's wife, that the other man didn't need to know about. And that - is evil.

Keep it in one place, please. Doesn't need to sprawl all over the Café.

Reads like the green card.

Funny fellow, T-Bone, you put yourself down too much. I know you've done a lot of careful and very deep thinking.

I do recall being at RoA whilst being in rez, and people from my country came to that RoA and wanted to see me. These are people who have come from overseas, paying out not insignificant air fares (and generally paying those from a generally lower income level than in the USA), to come and hang out; and naturally, as most of them were also supporting me as my spiritual partners, wanted to spend a little time with me. This was not permitted at all by my shift leader - and as we all know, shifts were basically all day, every day. Some of my people came to find me. And some I met by sneaking off for just a few minutes. Wasn't even allowed to spend an hour with them as a group. Pathetic.

Gosh, I found one of those Red Thread long-sleeve shirts the other day. Had forgotten I'd got it. It could be a nice shirt to wear, but I don't like its connotations. And no doubt it has TWI's name all over it and I wouldn't want to "advertise" them. Might have to make dusters or some such out of it.

True, Rocky. My bad.

You might ask if God ever changed his mind about this - because originally when the Israelite nation was founded, it was itself supposed to be a beacon of God's love, to show the nations and thus draw all peoples from all nations to Him. And this group of people was only chosen because God's pre-Israelite plan for all to know Him had failed due to people's egocentricity and hardheartedness. Genesis 11: 1Now the whole world had one language and a common form of speech. 2And as people journeyed eastward,a they found a plain in the land of Shinarb and settled there. 3And they said to one another, “Come, let us make bricks and bake them thoroughly.” So they used brick instead of stone, and tar instead of mortar. 4“Come,” they said, “let us build for ourselves a city with a tower that reaches to the heavens, that we may make a name for ourselves and not be scattered over the face of all the earth.” 5Then the LORD came down to see the city and the tower that the sons of men were building. 6And the LORD said, “If they have begun to do this as one people speaking the same language, then nothing they devise will be beyond them. 7Come, let Us go down and confuse their language, so that they will not understand one another’s speech.” 8So the LORD scattered them from there over the face of all the earth, and they stopped building the city. 9That is why it is called Babel,c for there the LORD confused the language of the whole world, and from that place the LORD scattered them over the face of all the earth. God's plan had been for all to know him, as in the beginning with Adam and Eve. But people's egos got in the way, right from the beginning, and going forward even to today. You could say, He changed his mind and scattered the tower-builders (and thus, the nations); then (maybe) changed His mind back (Plan C, D, or whatever) - resumed the original plan - when establishing Israel. But Israel was itself only a "temporary measure" because God's plan (1 Tim 2:4) has always been for "all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth."

Dotty was the "Dean"? I recall when out Lightbearers, we ran a foundational class and this young male was thrilled to receive his certificate. Said it was the first certificate for anything that he'd ever received. Hm. Had forgotten all about the certs, though I didn't forget his pleasure at getting one.

Hell's bells, WW, that's an essay and a half. To be read at leisure later. I got through the first paragraph so far of this waffle.

"Mosaic law"? What about pre-Mosaic laws? Abraham wasn't subject to Mosaic law. Neither was Noah. Presumably there were some laws that we don't yet know about, before they were encoded. The "chosen people" (tribes comprising Israel) had gone from the deserts of Palestine, inhabited Egypt with a different set of laws for some 400 years, then escaped back to the desert of Sinai. To the extent that the Exodus story is true, or a myth encapsulating truth, I'd think, actually, that Mosaic laws were an override or perhaps a codification to pre-existing, ie, pre-Egypt, law, perhaps also taking into account the Code of Hammurabi (=Persian) and other legal codes known to "Moses" and altering or softening some of those sets of laws. The Mosaic laws were, as much as anything, a political statement to unify the 12 tribes, to make them distinct from Egyptians, Persians, Syrians and other groups/tribes in the middle east, as well as giving a common foundation for all the new nation to build upon. As well as being political, were these laws God-given? Well, why not? God works in leaders of all types to bring about the good of those who love God. But needs change. And therefore laws change. And therefore, it might be said that God changes, or changes his mind.

Ah, them wuz the daze when they wuz lots of peeples. Nothing like that when I was at RoA. I seem to recall some sort of casual area in a tent where people could play their guitar and sing, very low key. But I might be mistaken. Hard to be certain what goes on when (as Corps) one's busy making sure every attendee is catered for. And "Loo Crew" (cleaning several blocks of toilet trailers) doesn't leave a lot of time for investigating and enjoying what went on.

What was the music challenge? Sounds like a sort of Open Mic stage.

Yes, I saw he had been exiled to Montana. I suspect they are there licking their wounds and having a deep think. I'm wondering where they'll be in a few months. In six months. In twelve months. I wonder if they are expected to write some grovelly letter to Rosalie, denouncing themselves, crawling through the dirt, so that they'll be "allowed" to live in, say, Indiana or Illinois or even Kansas?