Twinky

We are in danger of this thread becoming a rehash of the other thread, with the same outcomes.

There was a lot of camaraderie in rez and we had some good times - as individuals, just having a bit of fun. First semester was hard, but we had fun together for the first few weeks. Before the screws started to really tighten. But - it seems to me - the most fun people to be around were also the people who mysteriously vanished, got dismissed, went home, didn't come back after "HoHo Relo." And many of the ones who left were remarkably toe-the-line, or priggish, or so goody-two-shoes... none of that was me, but somehow I managed to avoid getting thrown out. Perhaps they wanted to keep an International onside for some other reason - but they had a good go at breaking me. As an International, I did two years back to back. No interim year on the field (or more likely, mouldering in some meaningless role at HQ). No. I did my first year with one Corps, then straight into the next year with the previous Corps. WCz suddenly becoming WCy, as it were. They were bonded in their way and were somehow focused a bit differently. Perhaps it was something that happened, after the year on the field. Often I didn't really feel a part of them. But then I didn't really feel a part of my own corps, either. Very strange.I did have some good times, with them, though. I liked being at Gunnison where I was put in charge of pre-school kids - the sort of 3-5 year age group. Me? I knew absolutely nothing about kids, of that age or any other. But I found I really got to like the littlies and they were a lot of fun and it was a good time. I saw how many of them grew in confidence and took care of each other, all in each individual week. It was amazing. And I look back at that time as being one of the best. Hard work (I was finishing up my research paper at the time) but still, one of the best times.

I asked him this ages ago. He says it's because it's important to keep God's law. I don't know why this particular one of God's many laws is particularly important, especially given the explicit Bible direction that Jesus is the end of the law for righteousness. Be good if you got an answer.

I remember my early time at HQ. Went straight there from the Adv Class, so RoA was being set up. We were immediately expected to join work crews and all the potential in-rez Corps were in the dishroom or setting up the food tables. I remember Reggie H having great fun posing with a mop or broom, and singing into it as if into a microphone. There was a lot of camaraderie and fun in those early days. After RoA - maybe, it was even the first week or so of in-rez - we were invited to help lift potatoes in a field a short distance away. It was only an invitation, "but there'll be nobody left here if you don't come along." Everybody went, and it was quite a nice time, picking the lifted potatoes in the evening sunshine. I also enjoyed the wood-chopping upper body exercise that we had to do. Twice a week, we went into Way Woods to chop piles of wood. One quickly learned which woods split easily and which didn't. There were things that God could teach us too, but we didn't need that week after week. While I enjoyed the activity, I resented that it always took place when we were supposed to be at study hall, as if studying the Bible had no importance (little did I know!!). It never took place during our "work" time, which clearly had a higher priority.

Unfortunately, that is true. Though some will overcome it and go on to live UNcriminal lives. And some, from good backgrounds, go on to become criminals. I think these boys did know better, though. Likely youthful "fun" and possibly a protest at too many restrictions on their lives posed by their parents and TWI.

Lovely posturepedic mattress. On sale now.

I think Waxit has left the building.

VPW wouldn't know church history if it hit him like a steamroller. What year did he start teaching PFAL - I mean, before the recording of that dreadful video class. When did he steal it from Stiles and start teaching it as his own? Was that 1942 or somewhat later? You know, what attracted me to PFAL was (1) the WoW who witnessed to me could show me Bible verses to support what he said and (2) when he prayed, things happened. They really did, things that just "shouldn't have." He loved and believed God. Unfortunately that had become tangled in TWI baggage. I'd been reading in Acts and had wondered to myself, "These people had power, they prayed and things happened; they asked, and amazing things took place. What happened to that power? Why isn't it still here? Why don't I see that nowadays? When did it all stop happening?" And then I met this WoW. And the rest is history.

And yet, some older folk espouse modern technology with great zeal. Friend's dad, now passed on, set his skype up so that anyone could call him. He got a lot of foreign language callers, who wanted to practise their English. And he had some amazing conversations with these random strangers. I think my own granddad would have espoused this with zeal. He in his youth was an experimenter with photography, built radios, "borrowed" the first car into the village and drove it round and round till it ran out of petrol (no accident, just didn't know how to brake). Was an avid listener to short-wave radio all his life. Inexplicable that in these days of scattered families, some choose not to learn and refuse to maintain family links.

Am reading it now, it's an interesting article. "Pillow forts" of belief, heh heh. "... people wear information like team jerseys..." There've been times on this thread when I wondered if Waxit was actually trying to convince himself. The CCG/WCG to which he appears to belong explicitly states on its FAQs that if you don't accept all their statement of beliefs, you can't be a member. And we all want to belong, somewhere. (Sorry about the font change, copied the quote and can't change back to original font setting)

What did the cult-head say to the world? "I've seen the light!" What did Jesus say to the cult-head? "I am the light." Okay. Not so funny. Never was the court jester.

I moved overseas in the late 80s and I used to write to my mum and sometimes send a cassette tape that I recorded. It cost £3/minute to phone. Now, with inclusive phone calls, and good broadband, we can phone or Zoom or Skype free, and grandparents can still read the kiddies a bedtime story, or help older kids with homework, as well as adults sharing news, and showing absent friends or relatives round the garden, or the painting/decorating they've just done, or the new car they just bought, etc, etc. So much more fulfilling, and involving. Not the same as being with a real person, but definitely better than nothing. Am Zooming with a lot of friends etc now, with the lockdowns. It's been very nice. It's still nice to get a letter or a card, though. Something physical, to hold and to treasure.

T-Bone, I don't forget how confident I was (once I got hooked in) that my (cult's) view was the right one. The certainty. The confidence it gave me. How I thought I knew it all, compared with deeply committed Christians I worked with, who quietly and gently got on with their jobs (and tried to tone me down a bit). I was impressed by the (limited) knowledge and great passion of the TWI believers that I met. To some extent, I can still be a bit like that. I might hear others praying (for example) - "If it be your will, God..." or where people pray, but don't seem to expect any outcome or answer to their prayer. I might think, "But just ask! Whatsoever you ask in my name, that I will do" and "Two or three gathered together..." and "It clearly states in the Bible that God's will is..." and then I have to shut myself up and tell myself to get off my high horse. I do take a longer view now ("wised up," if you like, T-Bone). The instant healing we expected maybe isn't achieved in this life. I've seen too many awesome Christians with incurable diseases, end-stage cancers, etc. Sometimes, it's their fortitude to bear and their continuing confidence in the Lord that is their witness - not some miracle of healing. (I don't really want to get into the nitty-gritty of that, very off topic). It takes a lot of reading, listening, thinking, discussion with others of different views to honestly form one's own views. "Wisdom in a multitude of counsellors." We need to see how God works in the lives of others in a way that may not be happening in our own lives. We need to trust that God does work in the lives of others just as he works in our own. We need to be open to feel the peace of God that people radiate when they are walking closely with him. We need to be confident enough in God to be able to say, "I don't know." I don't know why this is (or isn't) happening. I don't have a pat answer. But I do know that God is in you, me, us, in this situation. It is very far from us to judge another on what s/he believes, if they don't believe exactly like us. Whoever did? Shouldn't it be enough for us to develop our own relationship with God by learning from the Bible and from other people? And doing our best to cultivate the "fruit of the spirit" (love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control) in our own lives? I am not seeing judgmentalism, legalism, being dogmatic, and being critical, in that list. As a group, there's been a lot of patience and kindness extended to Waxit. But he appears to be as immovable in this new set of beliefs as we were (and he was) when first in TWI and taking on PFAL. I don't know how long he has been involved with them. I do know he has a passion for the Lord. I hope that he (really) listens to the Lord - and to those who love him - not just give ear to some distant cult-master.

I am sorry to say that I think Waxit has merely exchanged one cult for another, as must have been apparent to all here since his first post. I had a rummage round the ccg website. I'm not impressed. Seems very controlling and really wants everyone in lockstep - or else!! The "Christian Churches of God," or parent body World Wide Churches of God, stem from a man who himself was a maverick preacher/minister, kicked out of his own church, so decided to found another (of which he was the head honcho, of course). Would you believe it, he had a radio show, too. (The parallels are too scary!) "Armstrongism" is now widely denounced and the splinter groups from the break-up of Armstrong's original church have changed many of his original doctrines. Armstrong's set-up appears to have been an even more greedy organisation than TWI. Here's a Wikipedia article (with all the usual inaccuracies, no doubt): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armstrongism and another very critical article from something that looks not unlike EmpireNet, but it doesn't appear linked: http://jbeard.users.rapidnet.com/bdm/Cults/armstrong.htm I'm sure Waxit will really hate me for saying the above. But yet, he is very much toeing the party line, and just as keen on this as he was when newly engaged with TWI.

Sad. Well, I had a lovely Sunday - Sabbath, if you wish, or even if you don't wish - honouring and respecting God and doing exactly what I said I'd do. I am rested and refreshed (the purpose of the sabbath). And I am loved and cared for by my God, the father of the Lord Jesus Christ, who sees me as his child. I know this, and I know it doesn't depend on what I do or don't do. It's not conditional upon what I do, whether I wear the right clothes, use the right words, pray 297 times a day or none, cover my head or don't - or observe a particular day above all others. I believe Gal 3; do you? (Might be worth a re-read) You'll see that this very chapter tells us that we are redeemed from the law. Bought back from it. Not under law any more. You are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus. 27For all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. 28There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29And if you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s seed and heirs according to the promise.

For the THIRD TIME OF ASKING, Waxit : PLEASE STATE WHAT VERSE(S) STATE THAT NOAH OBSERVED THE SABBATH? (Sabbath on any day of the week is acceptable). If you can't state what verse, can you please explain which of the highlighted words you don't understand and I will see if I can find an alternative word. It's your contention that Noah observed the Sabbath, I'm asking for the evidence.

My comment to which you replied, Waxit, was very tongue-in-cheek. You haven't bothered to reply to my comment on what YOU raised - about Noah.

You said it, Waxit - that Noah kept the Sabbath. I'm asking for your evidence. It clearly wasn't a "commandment." Not for Saturday, Sunday, or any other day of the week.

@ Mark: I think it was considered "day" when a white thread could be distinguished from a black thread. I've recently finished "online church" (it's a great service, with online coffee afterwards (=four or five breakout rooms) - nice to catch up with everybody. I will worship the Lord more fully when I go out for a lovely long walk in the sunshine, in the countryside that my house is very close to. I shall admire all the beautiful new foliage in so many different colours, all the pretty flowers, all the bees and other critters; and I will be amazed once again at the luxuriously bountiful world the Lord has created. A friend will be joining me and we will walk in tandem (socially distancing). Later, I may call on a few people who are socially isolating and have a little chat with them through their windows or open doors. Nice for shut-ins to see a real person and have a real chat. In the evening, I'll ring my mum (140 miles away, I can't visit). It seems to me that that is a worthy, honourable way to worship the Lord and to respect the Sabbath.

A "day" Biblically is evening to evening. It's Friday night to Saturday night. So Mark, you'd be okay if you worked on Saturday evening, but not if you worked on Friday evening. Not sure how time zones apply. Would that be Friday eve to Sat eve in Jerusalem time? In which case, it's GMT + 3 (ie it's now 10.30am Sunday, Jerusalem time, 7.30am GMT, or 8.30 British Summer Time; and 12.30 am (half past midnight) Sunday, Pacific Time. Perhaps observing the Sabbath on Saturday on Jerusalem time would be going a bit too far, would be a bit "religious"? -- though for those on PT it would equate quite reasonably to a "midnight to midnight" set up.

Above post continues: If you would prefer from a Jewish background, try this, same laws, slightly different order, which expands rather more about each Law (from https://www.myjewishlearning.com/article/the-noahide-laws/). You can also google "laws of Noah" and bring up your own references. Could you point out which one of these (the post above, and this one below) reflects your view that Noah observed the Sabbath? Maybe there is a verse in Genesis that says this explicitly? I can't recall one, off-hand, but it's a while since I read the story of Noah, and NT commentary on him.

I wonder, Waxit, if you are aware of what's known as the Noahide laws, or the seven laws of Noah? From Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seven_Laws_of_Noah

Getting easier as I read more. Mostly dispensed with the very long sentences. Reporting fairly unemotionally on the unimaginable horror that was Crakow at the time. It's the sentence structure that conveys the horror, the confusion, the hopes and the fragility.

I've just started reading Schindler's Ark (the book upon which the hit movie Schindler's List is based, and now re-released under that title). The author, Thomas Keneally, is a novelist by trade. He has collected many accounts of Schindler from Jewish survivors and other sources, and put this book together in novel-style, though he is at pains to point out that only the dialogue is fictional, and that that follows known patterns or summarises known conversations. It's what's known as a "non-fiction novel" and the author won the Booker Prize for it. We all know the story. I thought the book might be more pacey. It's not at all pacey. Some sentences are short, graphic. Others are long, covering five or six or eight or more lines, quite convoluted, lots of clauses and subclauses, asides, details: you have to read twice if not more to get the sense of the sentence. Keneally is anxious to sketch out this man Schindler, to show the readers his complexity; and to show the slow, inexorable, degradation of the Jewish population of Crakow. And, indeed, the slow, inexorable, degradation of the German population, to think that such treatment of other human beings is acceptable. I believe that's what the author intended. So far, I've read four chapters; it's taking time. As it happens, I've visited Crakow [Krakow]. I can picture some of the locations. I know the official view of the current population; in fact, they claim to treasure the Jewish population now, by way of apology, and there's a nice Jewish centre. But the populace has changed its mind once, from companionable living together in a thriving community, to rabid hatred and mass murder; and now they treasure this population group? I wonder. I wonder at myself - what would it take for me to behave like that? Would I be sucked in (I was sucked in by one organisation that we all know)? Or would I take a stand against? Such thoughts come from a slower-moving piece of literature. https://www.amazon.com/Schindlers-List/dp/B00NBELTP2/ref=sr_1_13?crid=1VFRMYE62F86Z&dchild=1&keywords=schindlers+ark&qid=1587823061&s=books&sprefix=schindlers+ar%2Caps%2C223&sr=1-13

Good post, Modgellan.