Twinky

Waxit, many count the first day of the week as MONDAY. How does that suit your argument? Who's to say Monday isn't the first day?

That should read, "You think old laws apply to you, but you are actually free from them."

Lug wrench. Sounds like somebody's pulling my leg - if not my ears. "Lugs" is a slang word for ears. And "lughole" is an ear canal.

Ignore? Or accept the heart of it? The heart of it is: rest, on a regular basis. And I have told you, time and again, how it is that I personally honour God and God's rest. I did ask you why God would be so petty as to demand that rest be on one particular day only, and condemn all those who love him but honour him on a different day. You didn't answer that. It's good that you honour God on a regular basis each week; I'm glad that you so choose. I think you're going to be awfully upset if you find that the calendar isn't as you think and you find you are sabbathing on, say, Wednesday, or Tuesday. Oops! I do not accept your (church's) assertion that one can know what day the original "7th day" was. Nor do I think it necessary to know.

Do you see how judgmental this sounds? "I agree to differ" but you're sill wrong and you're gonna be shocked come judgment time, because you think you have special exemption and I, Waxit, say that you don't. Waxit, it may be the other way round! You think old laws apply to you and you are actually free from them. Maybe Jesus will say, "Waxit, why do you keep putting yourself into bondage? Do you like shackles, when I paid the price for you? Is what I did somehow not enough for you?"

Ye shall not add unto the word … BUT THEN YOU DO ADD by including the words "7TH DAY SABBATH"!!!!!!

If you were very drunk, you might be p1$$ed as a f@rt. (Why a f@rt, I have no idea.)

Now, here's a misleading one. "I'm p1$$ed." In the UK, this means "I'm drunk," but in the US means "I'm angry/annoyed/unhappy," which in the UK might be "I'm p!$$ed off."

Ecky Thump? Never heard of. I don't like The Two Ronnies. Bit too daft, for my liking. Blackadder could be surprisingly good.

Working in the garden today. So many fallen leaves - you'd think it was autumn. Or, on the other side of the pond, fall.

Waxit, I don't agree at all with you about that, and I can't see anything that will convince me to. I thank you that you've offered a thought-provoking discussion - from the heart in my case, from (it often seems) the website of another church/cult in your case, though I accept that you wholly believe what you are writing. This discussion has caused me to re-examine and deepen some of my theology, but I am not going to put myself under the legalism of another cult. I'm sure you know the old adage: "A man convinced against his will /Is of the same opinion still." We shall just have to agree to differ - your church, differing from almost the whole of the rest of Christianity, which doesn't recognise this 7th day/Saturday stuff. Do check out some of the other threads here. You might get to know some of us better. WordWolf has started a new thread on differences between US English and UK English. You might think of a few examples from some of those other countries you've lived in.

Programmes (not spelling) would have to be very old for me to know them. I haven't had a TV in 30 or more years. I watch things sometimes at friends' houses, and some things (not BBC) I can watch on catch-up over the Net. Don't miss having a TV, listen to excellent programmes on the radio. I was a big Goodies fan, though, in my youth.

Hey, WW, what do you like watching?

Are you queuing for your groceries in the supermarket in the US? Or are you in the line for your shopping at the store?

You're being insulting and arrogant again. No, I'm not answering your questions any more, until you learn to assimilate that which is already written, which, despite your protestations, is an answer. And no thanks, I don't want the free book that your current church is peddling. I don't know anything about Jewish sabbaths, except that the Jews find ways to make life easy for themselves, rather than the severe restrictions that rabbis placed on them. If you were referring to rules in Leviticus and other Books of the Law, these are not Jewish but addressed to all the Israelites and the vast number of hangers-on who travelled with them out of Egypt. Judah should have observed all those Levitical laws; rabbis laid other traditions on top, known as "a hedge around the Torah." These, though perhaps originally kindly meant, ended up being severely restrictive. "Don't light fires" was one such: because a man might need light a fire to heat water to do his job, or to cause metal to melt enough to be worked, etc. But that became "don't light fires even if it's cold or to cook your meal," which is not what God intended. "Don't carry things" was another such tradition: because a man might be carrying his work tools or some necessary thing to facilitate his work. But that became, "don't carry anything on the sabbath" and so (in "recent" times), Jews sew or pin a handkerchief onto their jacket, so that it's "part of the garment" and therefore they're not "carrying it" to blow their noses, which is clearly nonsense. You didn't answer my question: why were you posting here on Saturday mid-afternoon? That'd be "work," wouldn't it?

My answer to you, Waxit: Jesus said, in Matt 11, the following. And I come to him. I take his yoke, which is light and easy. I don't need to try to find my own righteousness, by following the heavy and unfulfillable requirements of the law. Those requirements are set out in detail in (is it?) Leviticus. You can try this too, Waxit: take the yoke of Jesus upon you. Fulfil Jesus's requirements and commandments. You will find them easy, not burdensome.

Yes, you might need a bit of a dictionary to understand some expressions. A lot of novels are by (prolific) US authors. They refer to things that aren't necessarily obvious to a non-US citizen, or talk about places or events that might be commonly understood in the US, but it takes a bit of work with a different geography or history. Well, of course you put things in the boot of a car. A boot might also be a wheel immobiliser (note spelling). And the engine goes under the bonnet (not the hood). A jumper is a dress??? An unbuttoned top garment might be a jumper, sweater, aran, jersey, guernsey (or gansey) and various other things too. Jersey and Guernsey are two of the Channel Islands, and have distinctive knitting patterns. Aran is a Scottish island with distinctive knitting pattern.

Remember also that the Israelites were enslaved in Egypt and forced to work, to labour. To work very hard, in difficult conditions. I wonder if they were allowed a day of rest? Or if they had to work hard, every day, in gruelling heat and with vicious overseers. Then, they escaped into the desert, where all their troubles were "washed away" by the flood that swept away the Egyptian pursuers. They marched around for a long time, with no record of any break. Then, they started grumbling because they were hungry and tired. They found a nice oasis and settled there for a while. They grumbled so more. Then, there was quail and manna episode. Six days of food, then no food provided on the 7th day. Did they rest on the days since they marched out from Egypt? (I've always found this story intriguing. How do you move a horde of over a million people - all at once - do you do this by moving the back bunch forward, leapfrogging the ones ahead, and so forth, so that everyone gets an opportunity of clean space and fodder? And everyone stays put for a little while, gets a bit of rest before moving on. Be tough if everyone marched the same distance every day and the ones at the back were always the ones at the back. But this is off topic.) And then, perhaps, there was a reintroduction of a day of rest after six days travel. Unlike Gabe, I think this might be a reintroduction rather than reinstatement of an actual day. It was a marker of significance to a different event. But the significance is in the day of rest, following hard labour. This bunch of people would be used to working all day, every day - so being told to have a rest would surely mark a different set of rules, a different "Lord", a new overseer. Read about it in Ex 14-16.

Believe me, Gabe, God has given me "an understanding of the sabbath and why it is important" - my "day of rest" is vital. I have told you previously how I spend my "day off," but I'll just recap here. In the morning when I get up I fellowship with a friend via Zoom because he lives in another country. Then I go to church (online church, at present) and after church hang out with the rest of the congregation - just nobody wants to leave straight after church (now, we hang out in Zoom rooms after online church). Then lunch - often with a friend, often a friend who extended an invite following church - obviously not available at present. In the afternoon, a long walk enjoying God's creation: nature, birds, animals, flowers, trees. Sometimes I visit "shut-ins" who can't get to church, or even out in their community. In the evening, more hanging out with friends, chat with my Mum, etc. In all of this I honour God and God's people. I think this is what God wants for the sabbath. Spend time with him, hang out and build family and community bonds. Learn to congregate, and get on with other people. Enjoy and celebrate his creation - both other people, and in the world of nature around us. Remember that life is not all about me, but about other people as well, other people as human beings, friends - not as customers, clients, people I work for. Have a rest from my usual things, do something different. Allow my mind and body to recuperate, and my strength to recover so that I can go out and work for another week. I do not kill animals in church or roast them outside the church. I don't wash myself in a huge communal bath. And I don't do what I do on Saturday. If you think that that in some way how I choose to spend Sunday dishonours God, please say how. Do you think that my "heart for God" is wrong? I can do this on any (and every) day. God does not choose one day above another for this. However, he did choose one day on a regular basis, to make people take a rest. Because the sabbath is for man. Not man for the sabbath. Sabbath means peace, rest, does it not? "Sabbath" : from the Hebrew verb shabbat, meaning "to rest from labor." Man was made for rest, not rest for man. Rest is needed on a regular basis - not one day off every month, or every year. But over regular shorter periods. God thinks six days of work followed by one of rest is a good plan. We all like a holiday, but if all our "rest" were the week or fortnight that we take every year, and we worked for all the other days - we'd be tired out. Not a regular enough rest. What, then, if we took every other day off? Perhaps that's too much. So God thinks about six days work is needed, but then we need to have time out. If God is so petty that despite my "heart for him" and the many other things that I do to keep his commandments, and to love and serve my fellow human beings- but because I don't do certain things on a Saturday I am cast out and condemned forever - then I (and most other Christians) need to find a new God. One that is gracious, compassionate, kind, giving, and motivates me to be a better person towards others. Let me know if you hear of one.

Yeah, you'd know 'em, Penguin.

Based on Ezekiel 37:1-14: ' The hand of the Lord was on me, and he brought me out by the Spirit of the Lord and set me in the middle of a valley; it was full of bones. He led me back and forth among them, and I saw a great many bones on the floor of the valley, bones that were very dry. He asked me, “Son of man, can these bones live?” I said, “Sovereign Lord, you alone know.” Then he said to me, “Prophesy to these bones and say to them, ‘Dry bones, hear the word of the Lord! This is what the Sovereign Lord says to these bones: I will make breath enter you, and you will come to life. I will attach tendons to you and make flesh come upon you and cover you with skin; I will put breath in you, and you will come to life. Then you will know that I am the Lord.’” So I prophesied as I was commanded. And as I was prophesying, there was a noise, a rattling sound, and the bones came together, bone to bone. I looked, and tendons and flesh appeared on them and skin covered them, but there was no breath in them. Then he said to me, “Prophesy to the breath; prophesy, son of man, and say to it, ‘This is what the Sovereign Lord says: Come, breath, from the four winds and breathe into these slain, that they may live.’” So I prophesied as he commanded me, and breath entered them; they came to life and stood up on their feet—a vast army. Then he said to me: “Son of man, these bones are the people of Israel. They say, ‘Our bones are dried up and our hope is gone; we are cut off.’ Therefore prophesy and say to them: ‘This is what the Sovereign Lord says: My people, I am going to open your graves and bring you up from them; I will bring you back to the land of Israel. Then you, my people, will know that I am the Lord, when I open your graves and bring you up from them. I will put my Spirit in you and you will live, and I will settle you in your own land. Then you will know that I the Lord have spoken, and I have done it, declares the Lord.’”

A Spoken Word piece, written and performed by Bryony Reynolds. This awesome poem was shared this morning in online church.

Waxit, you'll like this: I'll partially give you the point about the manna. Certainly it's on the 7th day - from something.

(wish I could get the quote function right...!)

Rejoice and be joyful! Party time!! Celebrate the birthday of the church as we know it. Here's a song for us all.