Twinky

"Why Division?" in the NDC. A very long time since I read that book. No desire to re-read. But isn't the answer to the question, "Because it enables us to control you better"? Doncha love his "Personally [nose in the air, sniffily], I will not be subjecting myself to any part of this meeting." Very holier-than-thou, Vern. For one, I don't think he was invited to participate, and secondly, i can't see him subjecting himself to anybody (except RFR) - much less to other voices or other advice

Now here is one to be cautious of. Pants. What is or are "pants," current buzz-word aside? In the UK and commonwealth countries, pants are undergarments. Panties (women) or Y-fronts (men) or generally that garment worn next to the skin. Knickers. Scants/scanties. Boxers. Bloomers. Underwear. Pants may also (but not necessarily or even usually) mean "trousers" or some other similar kind of outer garment (jeans, chinos, etc).

"Twinky said..."? No, no, no, no, no! Vern said! And Twinky says: "Yeah, riiiight...!" "Cease to be part of the problem"??? (They are the problem!") Be teachable"? (Don't make me laugh!) "See us and know we are His" (see us and run a mile, more like). Since TWI's own MO since its beginning was to be contentious, and thereby to be ... "dividing the body of Christ" I don't seen how things are going to change. What's your position statement, Vern? And where are your efforts to (re)join as "members of Christ’s Body" and fellowship with actual Christians, and even (ha!) to do as Christ commanded - to love God AND to love fellow human beings? And Vern, do remember that other human beings IS NOT limited to other Wayfers. God pours his blessings on the rich and the poor, the believers and the unbelievers. He loves us all (TWI forgets that) and doesn't wish anyone to perish. Sorry, so far, I'm not convinced. But if you're serious, you're welcome to come along to my church and see how we do things, and find out what real Christian community is about.

Interesting. I just found this, recently posted on a FB page set up by some ex-TWI folk. It's Vern Edwards's letter responding to the letter sent by the R&R folk that they sent complaining about the then BoD. I don't know the date of this letter. (I also posted this letter on the R&R thread, but maybe it deserves its own thread.) Vern Edwards letter Dear Household Fellowship Coordinators, As you are probably aware, the Placement Meetings have been taking place this week (thank you for your prayers!). And you may or may not be aware that there has been another group that is actively working in opposition to the Board of Directors and ministry leadership. This group has been led by Bob & Dottie Moynihan, Phil and Sue Shelton, and Ed and Jacque Horney. As of yesterday at the Placement Meetings, these individuals have been dropped from active Way Corps and are considered “mark and avoid”. This decision was made by the mutual agreement of Directors, the Officers, and the President’s Cabinet for the individuals’ divisive actions. Many efforts have been graciously extended to these individuals over the better part of a year, but to no avail. Romans 16:17: Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them. In Philippians there is a verse that is very appropriate to this subject. Philippians 2:3: Let nothing be done through strife or vainglory…. Gleaning from both Bullinger’s and Thayer’s Lexicons, we find that strife is defined as “canvassing” or “factiousness”. From an English dictionary, canvassing is “to travel around an area asking people for something such as opinions, or votes”. A faction is defined as “a dissenting minority within a larger group.” This faction is canvassing, persuading disciples to support their cause through fair words and good speeches (Romans 16:8). The individuals above have initiated a Facebook meeting called “Revival and Restoration Livestream Q&A.” Just to make it clear, this is NOT a ministry backed event. It should be very obvious by the very nature of the FB page. It is a mess of confusion, contention, arguing, and division; anything but decent and in order. When one person stands up for the ministry, they are instantly attacked. Today I see that most comments in support of the ministry have been taken down leaving only the comments of those who are agreeing with the Revival and Restoration group. On the FB page, several encourage others to listen to the Livestream event, after all, what harm is there in that? There is plenty of harm. What harm is there in fiery darts? What harm is there in dissenting words? What harm was there in Eve listening to the serpent? Paul confronted those who spoke words designed to divide and discredit, who sowed seeds of discord. 2 Corinthians 12:20: For I fear, lest, when I come, I shall not find you such as I would, and that I shall be found unto you such as ye would not: lest there be debates, envyings, wraths, strifes, backbitings, whisperings, swellings, tumults. Personally, I will not subject myself to any part of this meeting. My efforts will be put to glorifying God, moving His Word, and promoting unity of the spirit. If you have not read chapter 7, of Just the Way it Was, I would strongly encourage you to do so. This stuff is not new, but has historically been whipped up anytime there has been a transfer of leadership in The Way. Dr. Wierwille wrote the following in The New Dynamic Church, chapter 13, “Why Division?”. “May God deliver us as the Church from being contentious and difficult, from maligning our brethren, from bickering and quarrelsomeness, from dividing the Body of Christ by our lack of enlightenment. There is too much division outside the Church; our solidarity is imperative to give us strength to move forward in spite of the opposition. May the Father in heaven, for the sake of the only begotten Son, bless us with such an abundance that we may cease to be a part of the problem and become part of the answer. May we as members of Christ’s Body become so filled with love that we may be teachable and have our hearts opened to God’s Holy Word. And may we receive of Him and carry the blessings to all we meet, that they may see us and know we are His.” The greatest thing we can do is to bring spiritual light to the dark world in which we live. Be the Christian in the room. Invite people to fellowship. Teach them what you know. Acts 26:18: To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me. We have a strong ministry with a bright future. If any of you feel you need to talk, please call. My number is 315-638-2382. I am not into arguing or debating, but am keenly focused on spiritual truth and can perhaps shed light on any genuine concerns or questions you may have. Standing steadfast, Vern Edwards

Wow. 3-5, then only 2. Probably lucky now if they get even 1. What's the point of having the WC training program if there's no-one to train? Wouldn't you hate to be the "one" or even one of the "3-5" and have all that scrutiny focused in your direction?

Interesting. I just found this, recently posted on a FB page set up by some ex-TWI folk. It's Vern Edwards's letter responding to the letter sent by the R&R folk that they sent complaining about the then BoD: Vern Edwards letter Dear Household Fellowship Coordinators, As you are probably aware, the Placement Meetings have been taking place this week (thank you for your prayers!). And you may or may not be aware that there has been another group that is actively working in opposition to the Board of Directors and ministry leadership. This group has been led by Bob & Dottie Moynihan, Phil and Sue Shelton, and Ed and Jacque Horney. As of yesterday at the Placement Meetings, these individuals have been dropped from active Way Corps and are considered “mark and avoid”. This decision was made by the mutual agreement of Directors, the Officers, and the President’s Cabinet for the individuals’ divisive actions. Many efforts have been graciously extended to these individuals over the better part of a year, but to no avail. Romans 16:17: Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them. In Philippians there is a verse that is very appropriate to this subject. Philippians 2:3: Let nothing be done through strife or vainglory…. Gleaning from both Bullinger’s and Thayer’s Lexicons, we find that strife is defined as “canvassing” or “factiousness”. From an English dictionary, canvassing is “to travel around an area asking people for something such as opinions, or votes”. A faction is defined as “a dissenting minority within a larger group.” This faction is canvassing, persuading disciples to support their cause through fair words and good speeches (Romans 16:8). The individuals above have initiated a Facebook meeting called “Revival and Restoration Livestream Q&A.” Just to make it clear, this is NOT a ministry backed event. It should be very obvious by the very nature of the FB page. It is a mess of confusion, contention, arguing, and division; anything but decent and in order. When one person stands up for the ministry, they are instantly attacked. Today I see that most comments in support of the ministry have been taken down leaving only the comments of those who are agreeing with the Revival and Restoration group. On the FB page, several encourage others to listen to the Livestream event, after all, what harm is there in that? There is plenty of harm. What harm is there in fiery darts? What harm is there in dissenting words? What harm was there in Eve listening to the serpent? Paul confronted those who spoke words designed to divide and discredit, who sowed seeds of discord. 2 Corinthians 12:20: For I fear, lest, when I come, I shall not find you such as I would, and that I shall be found unto you such as ye would not: lest there be debates, envyings, wraths, strifes, backbitings, whisperings, swellings, tumults. Personally, I will not subject myself to any part of this meeting. My efforts will be put to glorifying God, moving His Word, and promoting unity of the spirit. If you have not read chapter 7, of Just the Way it Was, I would strongly encourage you to do so. This stuff is not new, but has historically been whipped up anytime there has been a transfer of leadership in The Way. Dr. Wierwille wrote the following in The New Dynamic Church, chapter 13, “Why Division?”. “May God deliver us as the Church from being contentious and difficult, from maligning our brethren, from bickering and quarrelsomeness, from dividing the Body of Christ by our lack of enlightenment. There is too much division outside the Church; our solidarity is imperative to give us strength to move forward in spite of the opposition. May the Father in heaven, for the sake of the only begotten Son, bless us with such an abundance that we may cease to be a part of the problem and become part of the answer. May we as members of Christ’s Body become so filled with love that we may be teachable and have our hearts opened to God’s Holy Word. And may we receive of Him and carry the blessings to all we meet, that they may see us and know we are His.” The greatest thing we can do is to bring spiritual light to the dark world in which we live. Be the Christian in the room. Invite people to fellowship. Teach them what you know. Acts 26:18: To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me. We have a strong ministry with a bright future. If any of you feel you need to talk, please call. My number is 315-638-2382. I am not into arguing or debating, but am keenly focused on spiritual truth and can perhaps shed light on any genuine concerns or questions you may have. Standing steadfast, Vern Edwards

Possibly rejoice at being out of the place!!!

Hmph. Use to be, it was part of the class for PFAL and that was what part of the cost of the class.

Wow! And Vern is still in place! What happened there? Is she dead; had a stroke; really, really, retired from TWI - or is she hiding even deeper behind the scenes as some sort of "emeritus" or honorary member of the BOD? Interesting times ahead!

It's a pity that Waxit didn't want to engage with us on some of the other threads. I'm sure he's more than a one-horse wonder.

Frequently accompanied by the word idiot as in "gormless idiot." Not very complimentary; precise degree of offensiveness depends on tone of voice.

Your Word of the Day: Gormless Yes, it's a real word. And no, there isn't an opposite, as in having gorm, or being gormful.

One doesn't really expect ministers of religion to peddle lies. To knowingly tell untruths. Situation primed for abuse, even where it didn't matter.

I think generally the food was good when I was in rez (and Craig was Prez). Sometimes a little weird, to my way of thinking, but usually there was someone who loved that meal. For the evening meal: Sloppy Joes - wot?? (very popular with others). Brats? Hot dogs? (Is this really food?) Fruit salad (as 5pm meal) - most hated it, I totally loved it and ate very large amounts. And that fermented cabbage thingy. People eat that? Yes. Special silver service at the "head table" with nice tablecloth and nice cutlery. Really. Either they should have made coffee/tea available to everyone - or everyone should be drinking water, inc and especially at head table. Go and drink your coffee privately, or not at all. Could be worse - they could have been drinking a nice wine or a beer. That really would rub salt in the sore. "All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others." (The infamous proclamation by the pigs who control the government in the novel Animal Farm, by George Orwell.)

Wow: from Waysider's post: "Contributor: Way International. Organic Gardening Department" - whatever was that!!

Here, you might say, "Come here, you big lummock" (or "lummox") to someone, a semi-affectionate term. Again, more dialectical than common.

That's a wheelbrace, GSG, for getting the nuts off that hold the wheel onto the car. Lugs are also what you get in hair - no, not animals, or nits - but knots. (I think that's more of a dialect word than common parlance.) You get lugs in your hair = your hair has lots of knots and tangles. It's luggy. "Lesbian until graduation" LOL!

Waxit, we were made complete in Christ, who observed all the tenets of the law. We were circumcised with him (so, for males, that's the end of mutilation of private parts). We were buried with him; we were baptised in him, we were raised with him. Jesus took away our sin and our sins. I wonder, do you think Jesus is alive and well, observing the sabbath in heaven or wherever he is? We who believe kept the law with him, we kept the sabbath with him, and we are freed from the law with him. For the dead are not subject to any laws. I believe that Jesus is alive and well in his spiritual body, in my church (and in many others) and in that form he observes a sabbath rest (of sorts) on Sundays and other days too. I say "of sorts" because the good work of my church doesn't stop on Sundays, but we're out there looking out for hurt and needy people, and fellowshipping with each other. We do that on Mondays, Tuesdays, Wednesdays, Thursdays, Fridays AND SATURDAYS. I believe Jesus is with each one of us as we do that, too.

What is your real reason for not accepting the grace of God, and having to do one better than Jesus?

Waxit, many count the first day of the week as MONDAY. How does that suit your argument? Who's to say Monday isn't the first day?

That should read, "You think old laws apply to you, but you are actually free from them."

Lug wrench. Sounds like somebody's pulling my leg - if not my ears. "Lugs" is a slang word for ears. And "lughole" is an ear canal.

Ignore? Or accept the heart of it? The heart of it is: rest, on a regular basis. And I have told you, time and again, how it is that I personally honour God and God's rest. I did ask you why God would be so petty as to demand that rest be on one particular day only, and condemn all those who love him but honour him on a different day. You didn't answer that. It's good that you honour God on a regular basis each week; I'm glad that you so choose. I think you're going to be awfully upset if you find that the calendar isn't as you think and you find you are sabbathing on, say, Wednesday, or Tuesday. Oops! I do not accept your (church's) assertion that one can know what day the original "7th day" was. Nor do I think it necessary to know.

Do you see how judgmental this sounds? "I agree to differ" but you're sill wrong and you're gonna be shocked come judgment time, because you think you have special exemption and I, Waxit, say that you don't. Waxit, it may be the other way round! You think old laws apply to you and you are actually free from them. Maybe Jesus will say, "Waxit, why do you keep putting yourself into bondage? Do you like shackles, when I paid the price for you? Is what I did somehow not enough for you?"