Twinky

No change there, then. It doesn't get any better, either.

Hey, an acknowledgment that all was not well. It still is not well; "cleaning it up and it's way better now" sounds like denial of what's happened and happening. There's a lot of crises going on at the moment. Perhaps you and Friend can volunteer at a local Foodbank, or pandemic helpcentre, or join a neighbourhood help group to assist the housebound, those who aren't allowed out, those who don't have money, etc. Offer to help at some local church in its outreach to these groups. Yes - volunteer. At something that is not a TWI-event. What does Friend think about that? Ask what Friend's parents are doing to help their community - you don't say if they live in the same area and I sense they may live at HQ or close to it. (If you live near each other, maybe you can ask them to join you at the Foodbank/debt counselling center/collection of prescriptions etc etc. I can see that going down well, LOL.) Ask what TWI is doing to help others. Choose your crisis. What - and where - are they doing things to help alleviate suffering from that crisis? If the answer is still "We teach people The Word," well, you know that words and actions that don't match are not Godly. It's all talk, talk, talk. No walk, walk, walk. I can only say that my tiny church puts its actions where its mouth is. Food parcels for those with too little money to look after themselves and their families; cooking meals to deliver to housebound; visiting; finding clothes or blankets or furniture; caring phone calls to those who can't be visited; comforting the bereaved and "being there" for those who are developing mental health issues - and so on - for those who have little else in their lives and nowhere to turn to. Individuals help as wider community volunteers, at refuges, foodbanks, marshalling at mass vaccination centers, all sorts. And all where we're in lockdown and not allowed to visit unless essential and we have to keep 6 or 8 feet apart. Nobody tries "preaching the gospel," quoting Bible verses, or urging to come to church; but actions have won people and the church is growing! The church is busier than ever - and normal activities continue as best as possible, with Zoom church, Zoom kids' club, Zoom youth club, Zoom coffee mornings, etc etc. Now. What is TWI doing? What are Friend's parents doing? What is HQ doing?

You know, Allan, that any "good stuff" that they taught, was because it was pinched from genuine God-loving Christians. Besides that, VPW had "itching ears" and grabbed other bits and pieces from get-rich-quick merchants, and from "spiritualists" and mediums. All jumbled up together to become their version of Christianity. And whatever TWI teaches, whether originally Godly or not, is corrupted by filthy and abusive practices.

What Outie said. Don't worry about going to a church other than the Catholic one. God wants people to love him, and that's across all denominations - or none. God didn't desire division and denominations. God doesn't even require you to attend church, though he does say it's good to assemble together from time to time. You may find any Way fellowship very pleasant, to begin with. Friendly people, and seem interested in you. But they will gently or not-so-gently pressure you into taking The Class or whatever they're calling it these days. ("Have you taken the class yet?" and "Oh, there's an answer to that question in the class, about session **.") The Class version they have now is not what most of the posters here will have taken - but that's not to say that the content and intent isn't the same. It presents a selective version of Christianity, and God, and there's no opportunity to ask questions during the (usually) taped/CD classes. If you were to start the Class then drop out, I can pretty much guarantee that your friend would take off and you would be shunned by everyone in the fellowship group. As your friend's parents are high-ups in TWI, then your friend was probably more or less raised in TWI and has some strange thinking patterns. Stay open to discussion with friend, but don't get sucked in to the organization. It could be that you are the only external person that your friend dare trust, if s/he's thinking of making a getaway. If that happens, be very patient. Friend will be in real culture shock. Collectively, we may know something about the parents (though our knowledge as a group is a bit dated). You are always welcome to come here and ask questions. If you think you see a bit of a red flag about some practice or doctrine, don't ignore it but come and ask. Most of us here wish we'd paid early attention to those red flags, and not shut our eyes and jumped down the rabbit hole. One more thing. Draw up a seat and have a cup of something and a bite to eat, before you start your adventures.

Bris. That's where R--s and Gr@ce, and Ph1l are. Are they still involved, do you know, any of 'em? I think R had some reservations about TWI but don't know if they took him out of there.

Good decision! Go for it, if they really were friends while you were involved in TWI. How much did you have in common during the time you knew them - I mean apart from going to fellowship meetings - did you enjoy each other's company? Perhaps they're hurt too and want a friend ? If you make phone contact, at least they're not so in-your-face, and you can make an excuse to terminate the call. Guard your heart, and don't take any nonsense, condemnation, or manipulation.

Making phone contact might be good; if it gets too edgy, you can always make the excuse that there's somebody at the door or some such. If you really were friends before, then it could work out well. If they've still got links with C Geer, or G Wrenn, I'd be somewhat wary. There's a thread about Wrenn somewhere here; and plenty of words about Geer. I reconnected with my Corps sister after many years; we had a good time together and remain friends. Most of 'em I wouldn't particularly want to hang out with again. On the other hand, I hooked up initially with some ex-Wayfers and it was as if they'd never left, with all this excessive "the Word says" and "doctor taught" stuff. Impossible to talk to! They hadn't been in anywhere near as deeply as me, and couldn't understand the immense hurt and damage that had happened to me. LOL, they had a big meeting and some guy (Rev Lightfoot?) came and talked. I mentioned something to him afterwards and he latched on to that, and proceeded to talk at me (not to me) for I think about 20 or 25 mins. Didn't seek any input or response from me; just wanted to tell me why I was wrong (which I wasn't). At first I hid my amusement at his long-windedness; but then I simply walked off.

That could be right - but I don't think that's what you meant, LOL.

Not to mention that the writers of the church epistles referred to themselves only by their Christian names. They don't bother with titles at all, and they don't have - whatever it's called - the descriptor of who their father is. James ben Joseph, for example. Or Saul/Paul ben ...?who? And we only know Timothy's mother's name, which wouldn't have been used unless he were illegitimate, probably.

It always amazed me in TWI that the once-leader (before my time) liked to be referred as "Doctor." Since when was that a Christian name? Perhaps he changed his name by deed poll, or however it's done in the US? When LCM took over, I recall him talking to my in-rez corps and telling us we could call him Craig (as opposed to Rev Martindale, I think). I just looked at my church notice sheet. This coming Sunday, our speaker is Bishop Ruth. Everyone calls the Bishops, Deans, Deacons, and other leaders by their Christian names. The title "bishop" would identify her for the congregation (I don't even know the woman's surname, but if anyone said Ruth Surname, we wouldn't know who was meant); anyone talking to her would simply call her Ruth. Maybe by title in very formal circumstances. Our former minister at the principal church, the cathedral, in this city was Chaplain to the Queen (an exalted position, wow!) - a lovely man, only ever referred to by the congregation by his Christian name. And this is true through all the churches that I know of. And not just Anglican (which my church happens to be) but through the Methodists, Baptists, others. The only one that's different is the RC man - he's known as "Father David" - but then the RCs have always been a bit different. We'd only call the leader by his or her title if we didn't know the Christian name - for example, a minister visiting the sick in hospital. And even then, the minister would introduce him/herself by name and be happy to be called by it. What's wrong with saying, "Victor told / taught / showed us..."? Two syllables, same emphasis on the words. So no harder to say. Ah! That's riiiight! It would be disrespectful of his great learning. Gotta keep the punters convinced, and what better way than making them refer to you only by title. Does anyone else attend (or used to attend) a church where the minister is only ever referred to by a title, like Rev So-and-so, or as Dean ... or whatever?

Well, I did write something about cult leadership, but pressed the wrong key by mistake and ended up losing the post. I'll write it again later.

That was fun!

Huh, in 10 mins. Who're you expecting, Raf? Whatcha wanna talk about?

Call 'em what you like. They aren't listening.

Thanks, Chockfull. Our service is available online (live or catch-up) and we have people joining from various places in Europe on an irregular basis, likewise once or twice someone from America. I'd guess that these foreign participants are friends of people in the church, or have attended in person in the past. We're not the sort of church that'd naturally have a big non-local draw. In fact, being deeply embedded in, and serving, our communities, is what we're all about. Church | Holy Trinity Combe Down | Bath (htcd.church) Services available Live Stream or on YouTube (Catch-Up) (15) Holy Trinity Combe Down - YouTube

Mind you, escaping doesn't mean he has to take the family. So why? Add credibility (in his own assessment) to himself as a leader and family man when he was overseas? Delay his wife finding out about the affair with the church secretary? (I don't know the timeline here) Because he'd been told not to by whoever was leading the mission? Or even, Dotsie wouldn't let him go alone because she thought he'd be trying it on with every woman he saw? And getting himself in biiiig trouble? But why the kids as well? Too unruly to be left with other family in Ohio? I doubt it was because VPW thought it would be a wonderful learning experience for them. Might say so, but don't think he'd believe himself on that.

Memories good, bad or indifferent... I was just thinking a few days ago, as I prepared to visit a friend (in my "bubble") for our very quiet NY Eve celebration (a meal, a bottle of good wine, and a glass of port) than we once used to have to go to a massive Event in the auditorium. Way Prods would put on a show (sometimes quite good) and there'd be few comedy bits. And then it'd all cool down and there'd be prayers to bring in the new year. Do they still do that, I wonder? Can they even fill the front row in the auditorium nowadays? Or do they all "social distance" and sit 6 or 16 rows apart? (That'd "fill" the place.) I wonder tradition when this started. Lots of people see in the NY, to be sure, including many churches. But I'm also aware that 31 Dec was (if I recall aright) VPW's birthday. If the Event started in his lifetime, then it was likely just a big birthday party for him, not a "watchnight" service at all. Anyway - I prefer what I did this year...! (Oh, and btw I stayed over, rather than have drunk enough to put me over the limit.) Happy new year to you all !

I just have to shout about this. Mum has gone home from hospital today. No visitors allowed, so most days I've gone to visit and stand at her window (she was on the ground floor) and rang her mobile phone. We chatted and she would wave to me. But today, she was all ready in her going-home clothes, big jacket and all. The nurse saw me and offered to bring mum to sit in a seat at the window, and opened the window so that we could chat better. It only opens a few inches, lets air but no people in or out. But we could talk properly. It was soooo nice. Mum was walking well (for her) and lucid (not the screaming, abusive nutcase she was when she stayed with me and before she was re-hospitalised). She looked better than she has done in several months. When the transporting ambulance arrived, the nursing staff fetched her but before she went, we were able to touch hands through the open window and I stroked her face. My heart swelled with joy and I am near to tears as I write this. It may be some months before I'm able to see her in the flesh - she lives 150 miles away, but travel into and out of her area is banned. It's a good start to the new year. May the joy of this blessing be upon all those who have loved ones in hospital - whether with coronavirus or something else.

Oh, I would like to share one bit of good news. My nearly-92 year old mother had a short spell in hospital after she tripped over her zimmer frame. They wanted to arrange some home care for her to try to improve her walking ability and kept her in for a week, during which time she contracted coronavirus. This was detected by a daily temperature check on the ward. When the week, or 8 days, or whatever, was up they discharged her to me (complete with coronavirus), saying they'd do a care assessment later (but getting the care assessment was the reason for the bloody delay!! she could have been out the next day after her check-up. Grr!!). She was very weak, lay in bed all the time, and needed a lot of close and very personal attention from me. That was five weeks ago, that she caught it. And four weeks since she came back to me. I haven't had any symptoms of anything. Mum didn't have any symptoms either, it was just the high temp when she was on the ward. She has had two or three positive tests, so must have had it. No cough, no high temp (I also checked regularly). Once she thought she could smell gas in my house in a part where there is no gas. She has been extremely tired, but she was tired before, having only a couple of weeks beforehand got over bronchitis, which kept her bedbound. Many people who have contracted CV have said they're extremely fatigued; it's hard to tell what's CV-related from what might be normal after a debilitating illness. You'd think that with existing respiratory and heart difficulties, and limited mobility, my mum would be in very poor condition to fight off CV. But she has! Well done, mum!! She wants to live to be at least 95. Another three years to go, then. Why not?

Well said, T-Bone. I checked on my own and other churches' websites. Individual churches don't put Coronavirus up there in big lights , though read on and you'll see the requirements for attending (or not!) services. But on the Headquarters sites for the C of E, Methodists, RCs, their Coronavirus policy is right up there. How to behave in church, what can and cannot be done, everything. Perhaps TWI doesn't allow anybody on site any more? So they don't need a policy for visitors. Perhaps everyone at HQ is one great big bubble (from the CV PoV) and they think they don't need more? (ha! deliveries, anyone?). Perhaps there are no twigs or household fellowships or whatever the current buzzword is, so there doesn't need to be a policy for household group leaders? Or is everything done by Zoom these days? (d'you suppose they know what Zoom is?) I checked on the church site for a large US church that is patronized by a former poster here. Their CV policy is right up there on the front page. Doesn't go quite far enough in my opinion, but hey, there is a policy and it does include requirements to wear a mask (though that seems to be optional) and they have sanitizing stations about and they disinfect between services. I don't know about other churches in the US; so many seem to be stand-alones without central governance (like a certain cornfield cult). But you're right, T-Bone. There could be TWI's take on spiritual aspects of CV (for what that might be worth). Maybe it's like their policy on HIV. HIV was judgment on homosexuals and if you didn't do that thing, you wouldn't get HIV. Yeah, right. Maybe if we don't breathe the air around us, we won't get coronavirus.

Christmas is traditionally much longer than one day. It's twelve days. Ends 5 or 6 Jan. Also known as Yuletide. I'm sure you know the carol Partridge in a Pear Tree - On the First Day of Christmas... up to On the Twelfth Day of Christmas... It doesn't really relate to the Orthodox or Julian calendars, though that makes it a bit more convenient. Twelve Days of Christmas - Wikipedia

"Christmas" actually extends to 6 January. Longer than just 25 Dec.

Happy Christmas, people! Yes, we are allowed to say that! (Season's greetings, if you prefer.) Have a joyful Christmas, careful New Year (especially if driving), and a very much better 2021.

Thanks for the chuckles, T-Bone. Your cat seems not unlike my all-black one, Crypto. Has a good line in stares. Happy Christmas to you and Tonto, too.