Twinky

It was that "Fourth man thingy, but OR used different descriptors. So where the heck did VPW get his descriptors? Surely ... did he read and study his Bible?

I found my Red Thread long-sleeve T shirt recently. I don't plan on ever wearing it again. But I was interested to consider where the supposed "red thread" came from. It's still an idea propagated by ex-Wayfers. I listened to some of the OR tape. He lists his "fourth man" in every book of the bible, but giving different "descriptors" of who or what the red thread is. So did VPW invent these "descriptors" (for want of a better word)? Because clearly they aren't Roberts's descriptions. It's something that came up in my church housegroup this evening. Nobody else has heard of any "red threads" and it was a novel concept to them. But I don't want to be spouting off about something that's essential Wayfer doctrine. Happy to share if it's somebody else's idea. Further thoughts, anyone?

The whole SP thing was yet another scam. SPs were supposed to provide for your funding and everything else. It was "godly" to support people through their Corps training. And some people who could better have used the money to support their families did help sponsor in-rez corps through the training indoctrination. A lot of money was paid for the training, which included of course the accommodation (free to TWI, they owned the land and buildings) and food (at minimal cost, since they grew quite a bit of it). But the cost for the training... it wasn't training. Your mother shouldn't have touched money that was your compensation. It should have been held in trust for you with two trustees (she'd be one). Maybe you could sue your mom to try and get the money back, if she has any assets, but that'd trash forever any relationship you have. I suppose what you really want is an acknowledgement and a sincere apology. Whether you ever get that will depend on how deeply indoctrinated she remains, after all this time.

It's true. I completely lost sight of Jesus in my Way years. Big concept of God, and who God is. Lost concept of Jesus, and who he is. TWAP. Haha. That's funny, so close to ... a word that might get changed if I write it. T at the end. The Way of Abasement and Powerlessness. That'll do.

VPW said it. That settles it. I don't believe it.

LOL, Allan.

"The Giver and His Gifts" is probably worthwhile reading and keeping. It is a written work stolen by Wierwille and more or less reproduced by him as Receiving the Holy Spirit Today ("the White Book"). Likewise "The Gift of the Holy Spirit" is likely worthwhile: JE Stiles is who VWP stole his "Foundational Class" from. Your concordance is probably worthwhile, TWI wouldn't have interfered with that too much. The other books are well worthy of the incinerator In other words: worthless. Be very patient. Be kind and not confrontational. Do not let them browbeat or be confrontational: just present what facts you knwow. And pray for them, pray that they be enlightened. If they have a genuine desire to know God, God can show them where they are wrong in their beliefs. God is bigger than any of us can begin to imagine. I am sure God is working in their hearts to show them a different path; they just need help to see that different path. God bless you and keep you peaceful in your endeavours to release your family from the bondage of TWI. Pray for them; but it is not you who will release them from bondage, it is the Lord.

D'ya reckon she's negotiating for a place in or near the fountain of living waters? (That memorial to the dead!!)

No change there, then. It doesn't get any better, either.

Hey, an acknowledgment that all was not well. It still is not well; "cleaning it up and it's way better now" sounds like denial of what's happened and happening. There's a lot of crises going on at the moment. Perhaps you and Friend can volunteer at a local Foodbank, or pandemic helpcentre, or join a neighbourhood help group to assist the housebound, those who aren't allowed out, those who don't have money, etc. Offer to help at some local church in its outreach to these groups. Yes - volunteer. At something that is not a TWI-event. What does Friend think about that? Ask what Friend's parents are doing to help their community - you don't say if they live in the same area and I sense they may live at HQ or close to it. (If you live near each other, maybe you can ask them to join you at the Foodbank/debt counselling center/collection of prescriptions etc etc. I can see that going down well, LOL.) Ask what TWI is doing to help others. Choose your crisis. What - and where - are they doing things to help alleviate suffering from that crisis? If the answer is still "We teach people The Word," well, you know that words and actions that don't match are not Godly. It's all talk, talk, talk. No walk, walk, walk. I can only say that my tiny church puts its actions where its mouth is. Food parcels for those with too little money to look after themselves and their families; cooking meals to deliver to housebound; visiting; finding clothes or blankets or furniture; caring phone calls to those who can't be visited; comforting the bereaved and "being there" for those who are developing mental health issues - and so on - for those who have little else in their lives and nowhere to turn to. Individuals help as wider community volunteers, at refuges, foodbanks, marshalling at mass vaccination centers, all sorts. And all where we're in lockdown and not allowed to visit unless essential and we have to keep 6 or 8 feet apart. Nobody tries "preaching the gospel," quoting Bible verses, or urging to come to church; but actions have won people and the church is growing! The church is busier than ever - and normal activities continue as best as possible, with Zoom church, Zoom kids' club, Zoom youth club, Zoom coffee mornings, etc etc. Now. What is TWI doing? What are Friend's parents doing? What is HQ doing?

You know, Allan, that any "good stuff" that they taught, was because it was pinched from genuine God-loving Christians. Besides that, VPW had "itching ears" and grabbed other bits and pieces from get-rich-quick merchants, and from "spiritualists" and mediums. All jumbled up together to become their version of Christianity. And whatever TWI teaches, whether originally Godly or not, is corrupted by filthy and abusive practices.

What Outie said. Don't worry about going to a church other than the Catholic one. God wants people to love him, and that's across all denominations - or none. God didn't desire division and denominations. God doesn't even require you to attend church, though he does say it's good to assemble together from time to time. You may find any Way fellowship very pleasant, to begin with. Friendly people, and seem interested in you. But they will gently or not-so-gently pressure you into taking The Class or whatever they're calling it these days. ("Have you taken the class yet?" and "Oh, there's an answer to that question in the class, about session **.") The Class version they have now is not what most of the posters here will have taken - but that's not to say that the content and intent isn't the same. It presents a selective version of Christianity, and God, and there's no opportunity to ask questions during the (usually) taped/CD classes. If you were to start the Class then drop out, I can pretty much guarantee that your friend would take off and you would be shunned by everyone in the fellowship group. As your friend's parents are high-ups in TWI, then your friend was probably more or less raised in TWI and has some strange thinking patterns. Stay open to discussion with friend, but don't get sucked in to the organization. It could be that you are the only external person that your friend dare trust, if s/he's thinking of making a getaway. If that happens, be very patient. Friend will be in real culture shock. Collectively, we may know something about the parents (though our knowledge as a group is a bit dated). You are always welcome to come here and ask questions. If you think you see a bit of a red flag about some practice or doctrine, don't ignore it but come and ask. Most of us here wish we'd paid early attention to those red flags, and not shut our eyes and jumped down the rabbit hole. One more thing. Draw up a seat and have a cup of something and a bite to eat, before you start your adventures.

Bris. That's where R--s and Gr@ce, and Ph1l are. Are they still involved, do you know, any of 'em? I think R had some reservations about TWI but don't know if they took him out of there.

Good decision! Go for it, if they really were friends while you were involved in TWI. How much did you have in common during the time you knew them - I mean apart from going to fellowship meetings - did you enjoy each other's company? Perhaps they're hurt too and want a friend ? If you make phone contact, at least they're not so in-your-face, and you can make an excuse to terminate the call. Guard your heart, and don't take any nonsense, condemnation, or manipulation.

Making phone contact might be good; if it gets too edgy, you can always make the excuse that there's somebody at the door or some such. If you really were friends before, then it could work out well. If they've still got links with C Geer, or G Wrenn, I'd be somewhat wary. There's a thread about Wrenn somewhere here; and plenty of words about Geer. I reconnected with my Corps sister after many years; we had a good time together and remain friends. Most of 'em I wouldn't particularly want to hang out with again. On the other hand, I hooked up initially with some ex-Wayfers and it was as if they'd never left, with all this excessive "the Word says" and "doctor taught" stuff. Impossible to talk to! They hadn't been in anywhere near as deeply as me, and couldn't understand the immense hurt and damage that had happened to me. LOL, they had a big meeting and some guy (Rev Lightfoot?) came and talked. I mentioned something to him afterwards and he latched on to that, and proceeded to talk at me (not to me) for I think about 20 or 25 mins. Didn't seek any input or response from me; just wanted to tell me why I was wrong (which I wasn't). At first I hid my amusement at his long-windedness; but then I simply walked off.

That could be right - but I don't think that's what you meant, LOL.

Not to mention that the writers of the church epistles referred to themselves only by their Christian names. They don't bother with titles at all, and they don't have - whatever it's called - the descriptor of who their father is. James ben Joseph, for example. Or Saul/Paul ben ...?who? And we only know Timothy's mother's name, which wouldn't have been used unless he were illegitimate, probably.

It always amazed me in TWI that the once-leader (before my time) liked to be referred as "Doctor." Since when was that a Christian name? Perhaps he changed his name by deed poll, or however it's done in the US? When LCM took over, I recall him talking to my in-rez corps and telling us we could call him Craig (as opposed to Rev Martindale, I think). I just looked at my church notice sheet. This coming Sunday, our speaker is Bishop Ruth. Everyone calls the Bishops, Deans, Deacons, and other leaders by their Christian names. The title "bishop" would identify her for the congregation (I don't even know the woman's surname, but if anyone said Ruth Surname, we wouldn't know who was meant); anyone talking to her would simply call her Ruth. Maybe by title in very formal circumstances. Our former minister at the principal church, the cathedral, in this city was Chaplain to the Queen (an exalted position, wow!) - a lovely man, only ever referred to by the congregation by his Christian name. And this is true through all the churches that I know of. And not just Anglican (which my church happens to be) but through the Methodists, Baptists, others. The only one that's different is the RC man - he's known as "Father David" - but then the RCs have always been a bit different. We'd only call the leader by his or her title if we didn't know the Christian name - for example, a minister visiting the sick in hospital. And even then, the minister would introduce him/herself by name and be happy to be called by it. What's wrong with saying, "Victor told / taught / showed us..."? Two syllables, same emphasis on the words. So no harder to say. Ah! That's riiiight! It would be disrespectful of his great learning. Gotta keep the punters convinced, and what better way than making them refer to you only by title. Does anyone else attend (or used to attend) a church where the minister is only ever referred to by a title, like Rev So-and-so, or as Dean ... or whatever?

Well, I did write something about cult leadership, but pressed the wrong key by mistake and ended up losing the post. I'll write it again later.

That was fun!

Huh, in 10 mins. Who're you expecting, Raf? Whatcha wanna talk about?

Call 'em what you like. They aren't listening.

Thanks, Chockfull. Our service is available online (live or catch-up) and we have people joining from various places in Europe on an irregular basis, likewise once or twice someone from America. I'd guess that these foreign participants are friends of people in the church, or have attended in person in the past. We're not the sort of church that'd naturally have a big non-local draw. In fact, being deeply embedded in, and serving, our communities, is what we're all about. Church | Holy Trinity Combe Down | Bath (htcd.church) Services available Live Stream or on YouTube (Catch-Up) (15) Holy Trinity Combe Down - YouTube

Mind you, escaping doesn't mean he has to take the family. So why? Add credibility (in his own assessment) to himself as a leader and family man when he was overseas? Delay his wife finding out about the affair with the church secretary? (I don't know the timeline here) Because he'd been told not to by whoever was leading the mission? Or even, Dotsie wouldn't let him go alone because she thought he'd be trying it on with every woman he saw? And getting himself in biiiig trouble? But why the kids as well? Too unruly to be left with other family in Ohio? I doubt it was because VPW thought it would be a wonderful learning experience for them. Might say so, but don't think he'd believe himself on that.