Twinky

In the same way that "it takes a village to raise a child," it takes a whole congregation to raise - each other! We are to have the humility to consider others more worthy, and to learn from them; to let them mentor us. In the same way, we also are examples and mentors to others; always bear that in mind. A Prayer Coordinator in a Christian group talked to us about the "smorgasbord of ways to pray" - some like to sit or stand, some like corporate and some private prayer; some sing, doodle, draw, etc. What about the smorgasbord of "acting out" Christ? You know Jesus on this earth had lots of different ways to interact with people, to match "where they were coming from" - so watch, and learn from other people.

Mike, I really thought you were going somewhere with this. Because then, and now, we should all be looking for people who are demonstrating the love ofG od (if you like, "the Christ in them") . I thought perhaps you were being honest in seeking mentors. But then you say: Please, Mike. Understand that Christ is bigger than PFAL. To find a mentor to "act out" Christ, widen your search. Look at lives of others: Here's Phil 2:3 in Amplified: Amplified Bible Do nothing from selfishness or empty conceit [through factional motives, or strife], but with [an attitude of] humility [being neither arrogant nor self-righteous], regard others as more important than yourselves. If you are only looking at one group of people, one faction - are you not in direct contradiction to what this verse says? In every translation, we are urged to ESTEEM/ REGARD/ CONSIDER (etc) OTHERS as MORE IMPORTANT than ourselves. You can take that as an individual context, or in a group context. Who should you esteem more important? Who should TWI esteem more important? Seek mentors from other backgrounds. Look at how, say, Mother Teresa "acted out" Christ; Martin Luther King in his calls for social justice; Jon Bon Jovi, or Bono, if you like. Look at churches in other countries; the persecuted Christian church in Syria, China, most Muslim-dominated countries, elsewhere; how do the people there live? What can you learn from their examples? Go to an outgoing church near where you live, and see how they practice what they preach. Talk to people there. You are more than welcome, should you ever come to the UK, to come to my church to see what we do. For a little congregation of maybe a solid 40 members, my church cooks about 50 meals a week and gives out to vulnerable people in the community; also gives them food parcels. This weekend we are having a StACCtion day: our little church hires 3 skips for the local community to dump old junk, so as to keep the neighbourhood looking nice. We show the area that we love them and want the best for the people. They are drawn by the love we show; many now are interested in our offering. In lockdown - our congregation has grown! After the StACCtion day, I am going to volunteer at a mass vaccination centre in this city. I am not scheduled for this, but my fellow church member has to go to help his father who will be recovering from an operation (helping his dad is great Christian practice) so he asked me to sub for him (that's some of my great Christian practice). Are we as individuals and as a congregation "acting out" Christ enough for you? Or would you like more information about the many other things we do? Probably the best mentors are actually those who have risen above the traditional teaching of their churches, throwing off doctrinal shackles, and living more purely according to the great heart of the teachings of the bible and in particular the NT.

I know some seriously smart people, Mike. Like, seriously. Theologians (and yes, he's a respected international expert), linguists and English teachers, and others whose livelihood depends on words. Bullinger had some serious creds, too, and an intense background in Hebrew and Greek. I don't know if he made up these FoS, but if nobody else has heard of them... I wonder... Of course, if a clever preacher from Ohio (and a non-academician) knows better... I'd have more confidence in that preacher if he understood tenses in English verbs, even the more simple English tenses that I know I learned in primary school and developed an understanding of in secondary school... but that preacher doesn't understand simple verb construction at all so I genuinely doubt his comprehension of more complex FoS.

I think he invented a lot of his FoS - not all of them. I have talked with academicians, one a very respected, genuinely published theologian with mighty tomes to his name, and questioned them about whether xxx FoS fits with what they're saying about yyy in the Bible. Guaranteed blank looks; they've never heard of the FoS xxx.

Please don't put words in my mouth (or words on my posts!), Mike. I asked an honest question. An honest answer would be nice. Now that is so important. Especially for me, right now. Such a lot going on regarding people around me, and their "stuff" impacts negatively on me. I need to remember God's abundant blessings and that God has always "come through" for me - though not necessarily at the time I think it's necessary. And often, not in the way I expect. There is "being anxious for nothing" and "casting all your care on Him - and then, there's leaving it there - and that's the hard part. So did you learn anything useful? That you care to share?

Just to be clear, Mike, that's three things I'm asking you to comment on. Might be easiest if you tackle them separately.

Mike, what have you learned from your last few years? What specifically have you learned from PFAL that you didn't learn from the Bible itself? It's good that you're hanging out with other people. How loving, kind, patient, and giving, are these people you hang out with now? Apart from the Deadheads, are you hanging out with any genuine, practising, Christians, from churches and other organisations in your area? How do you see Christ working out in their lives? What do they do that exemplifies Christ to the wider population (rather than debating)? I have a hard time seeing Jack Nicholson as Jesus. He loves playing nutters, weirdos, crazies. True, not so much in Cuckoo's Nest, where he's the sane character among nutters, but he's still weird. If I see his name on a movie cast list, that's one movie I won't be watching. And you might remember, in Cuckoo, Nurse Ratched (whom no doubt you would correspondingly see as the devil) wins. She overcomes, and gets the Nicholson character lobotomised. There's no "resurrection"-type scene, no recovery, for the Nicholson character.

Hello Mike. I've kinda missed you round here. Could always rely on you to make a point that would stir up Cafe denizens. Was wondering what had happened to you. You went away to study PFAL more deeply, I think. Well, no desire from me to study PFAL. Oh, I wish you could read it in the original! Maybe try deep-reading the two principal books that VPW plagiarised? I doubt TWI is really "moving back to the original PFAL class." Far too dated.

Be strong, Annio. Enjoy your new church, check out its safeguarding policy, and be bold to speak out if you see something that's dodgy.

Bizarre, T-Bone.

You still have your WC mug, T-Bone? And the PFAL book?? And a green card??? What are you - a cult-head??

I don't know about symbols, but the slogan The Word of God is The Will of God makes me want to run away fast. Can't stand it. I am not sure that even now I can cope with the Bible being called "The Word o God." Parts of it are clearly not the will of God, and some parts have been added in - and some omitted from some versions. The expression "the Corps" also got me running away. It's been hard to overcome - especially since my mum has now joined the Salvation Army and its officers and more dedicated followers are known as the Corps. (Happily, they do seem a dedicated-to-the-Lord lot, and do a lot of good work in the community. Totally different from that other "corps.") Lots of other symbols too. And buzz words. There's a whole thread here somewhere concerning that.

What a gruesome report. I feel sorry for these poor beguiled people. I pray they'll come to their senses, and that this wretched abusive "minister" is quickly made to face justice for her behaviour.

It's easy to look from across the pond and think how bizarre all this Q stuff is. Very hard for people who have "lost" relatives to this online cultish thing. Just as it was hard for our relatives when we disappeared into TWI. Hopefully there will be post-Q help sites set up by escapees.

Yet another all too familiar story. Sad. I hope that the people she names (esp PB) don't take it upon themselves to sue her for libel. Or set TWI's lawyers onto her, to gag her.

Would be good if they can keep their own organisation clean. The UK branch of Zacharias's organisation has already distanced itself and has adopted a new name. However, I think there will always be predators - this abusive culture isn't new, and has been going on centuries (millennia?) and will continue for more centuries. I follow with suspicion a cult in a remote South Island of New Zealand area, and rejoice every time there is a family that escapes. It's in many ways like the communal culture of TWI, mixed with forced "kibbutz" type living. The people choose to live there - but it's a choice with no alternatives. They've little idea of life outside their cult. And yes, there is sexual abuse as well as spiritual abuse.

I read about him in the Church Times (an Anglican newspaper) some weeks ago. sad. Same sh1t, different faces. I'll check out the video later.

That's outrageous, JCS. First, even taking a little money for ice creams - then taking more for private use for a car radio - on the field, people weren't allowed to dip into the ABS even to provide refreshments for the PFAL class, not that milk, coffee and a little cake or cookies cost a lot. Your mother sounds like she not only drank the kool-aid but wallowed in it too. I pray her head is in a better place now.

Oh, tell more! When/what year was this? (Do you mean, adulterous? Nearly everyone, unfortunately, was adulatory)

Some misguided soul in Belize seems to have put this together. Must have taken some work. Pity the author didn't spend that amount of time doing something useful - personal Bible study, for example. Or reading this website.

"All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others" (George Orwell, Animal Farm)

Love this, T-Bone

Welcome, Grace and Truth. Thank you for sharing your journey in such an articulate post. Many of us still here can relate to what you said. It wouldn't have made any difference to them; all it would have done is hastened your exit. You'd've invited more "reproof" and ultimately likely would have been marked and avoided. Many did confront what they saw, and got kicked out. Some are still trying to do that: witness the Revival and Restoration band, of quite a lot of The Bigs; totally ignored by TWI. Usually after being kicked out, and when you have no opportunity to respond, you'd've been badly slandered, called "possessed," and generally vilified. That's a "treat" that you avoided and don't need to know about. Sit down and join us for a while. Have a cup of coffee. Waysider will probably offer you a beer.

I wondered if anyone apart from ex-Wayfers ever talked about "the red thread." Or whether it was only ex-Wayfers (usually pushing their own wannabe ministries) that got excited about the idea. Several of the sites I looked at that described red thread are clearly ex-Wayfers; the Jesus descriptions are the same, and the wording of any supporting paragraph is the same old jargon - even though many don't give any names in the About Us section of their websites. It was something that was relevant to my housegroup discussions on Wednesday evening. They were very interested when I asked if anyone had heard of the red thread and wanted to know more. But the last thing I want to do is push TWI type doctrine on this lovely group of people.

Yes, Jesus in every book. In researching whether anybody else thinks this apart from Wayfers, I came across something that looked quite interesting - but then I discovered it was the exact list, with scripture references - produced by an ex-Wayfer in his own mini-ministry. The Oral Roberts version gives different "identities" (also with verses) and there are references on other sites. It leads to the consideration of how legit those sites are - who produces the materials thereon, what's their basis, background, theological position? (I'm getting cynical and suspicious in my old age!)