Twinky

Ah, yeah. Revelation. Direct from God himself. But seriously... we all know how sneaky abuse was, in TWI. And some women know better than others. And we've all heard of the abuses that took place in major denominations, that were covered up for decades.

My friend is the safeguarding officer at a big church. There have been over the years various issues. What exactly do you do with the paedophile in your congregation? The rapist? The man who beats his wife? Especially if the victim is also a member of the same congregation! The church recognises that ALL are sinners. ALL of us have sins; some are more obvious and some are still hidden away. And so the church continues to welcome these people into the congregation. Forgiveness, yes, but wisdom too. There is a price to pay. Perhaps an abuser may not attend certain services (which the victims attend). Perhaps an abuser may only attend if someone else (a nominated person) is also there. I don't know all the rules for ordinary congregants, I only know that each case is determined on its own circumstances. And every care is taken to ensure the safety of vulnerable people, of victims. The diocese would deal with abusive clergy; there are other rules for such. Safeguarding is taken very seriously these days. Pretty much all churches have safeguarding policies which are openly available on their websites. Nominated persons are named, with contact details. Anyone who has any contact in a leadership-type capacity with children or vulnerable adults has to get a police-type clearance certificate from the Disclosure and Barring Service. (This doesn't apply just to churches.) Where is TWI's safeguarding policy? I don't see a link on their website. Anyway, it'd probably still be the foxes in charge of the henhouse. Nor does CFFM appear to have a safeguarding policy.

Sarah was a victim, too, of her parents' nurture of her. As were all the Wierwille kids. An abusive father, domineering and fickle; and a weak mother, who knew what was right and didn't stand up for it. Some have said we're all victims of our parents. Maybe so. But as adults, we can also recognise that our parents were themselves flawed individuals. Be kind, be compassionate, be long-suffering: but do take off the rose-tinted glasses. There's quite a lot in the OT about the "sins of the fathers" being passed down through generations. That seems to me to refer to nurture, habits of raising children, poor lessons learned from parents by children. It doesn't mean that children "bear" the sins of their fathers and have to pay for them, it's more in the meaning of the children having learned from their parents' bad habits and not having learned better. It might not even about sinful, criminal or quasi-criminal acts. It might include patterns of speech, curtness or courtesy; habits of action - miserliness or generosity; ways of treating other people; habits of life - slovenliness or orderliness. Yet there are also promises of forgiveness if children shall turn away from the less socially desirable ways of their parents: a child of violent parents turns away from violence as his way of life; a child of a thief turns away from criminality as his way of life; a rude person realises it's not all about themselves and learns pleasantness towards others. And a child of an abuser turns away from abuse, in whatever form, towards his/her own children and others around him. Exodus 34:7 - Keeping mercy for thousands, forgiving iniquity and transgression and sin, and that will by no means clear the guilty; visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children, and upon the children's children, unto the third and to the fourth generation. Deuteronomy 24:16 - The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, neither shall the children be put to death for the fathers: every man shall be put to death for his own sin. Ezekiel 18:19-20 - Yet say ye, Why? doth not the son bear the iniquity of the father? When the son hath done that which is lawful and right, and hath kept all my statutes, and hath done them, he shall surely live. Numbers 14:18 - The LORD is longsuffering, and of great mercy, forgiving iniquity and transgression, and by no means clearing the guilty, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation. Deuteronomy 5:9 - Thou shalt not bow down thyself unto them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me

There's a bigger picture here. There's the predator, with all that makes him a predator. What happened to him (usually a him) in his childhood, to make him behave like that? What love and care did he miss out on? Where did the nurture go wrong? And then, there's the predator's nature. Regardless of nurture, there's something innate in children, which is why some are talented artists, performers, mathematicians, writers, orators - and manipulators, awkward kids (even as babies), that no amount of nurture can quite extinguish. Some kids seem naturally cruel. And then there's victims, with all the nurture and nature that happened to them. Some kids seem naturally kind, or pliant, biddable. For some, abuse that happened to pliant kids would pre-condition them to accepting more abuse later. Sometimes circumstances or events occur that mean a child has to learn coping strategies that become more or less helpful as the child ages. Perhaps among other good qualities (such as kindness, gentleness, compassion, thoughtfulness, etc) that should be taught to children is SELF-RESPECT and the ability to say NO! and be respected for that. NOTE: I'm not excusing any predator for responsibility for his actions. Or any other criminal either. We all have the choice of what we do with our mind, our bodies, and our actions.

As regards the AC, I remember nothing of what was taught. I thought it a bit of a disappointment, overrated. What I do remember is some great fellowship. I was in Indiana for a sort of residential class (perhaps all ACs were residential?) and my twig had a lot of young women my age. We got on well, and had a great time laughing with each other. I remember sitting out in the sunshine and enjoying each other, having fun, and feeling "at home." A number of other people I met there became my SPs. I apologise to them for the waste of their money on the WC program, especially when some of them could probably have used it themselves; but I promise you that I learned things there (and afterwards) that I put into practice today (a lot about how not to treat people). I went straight on to go in rez, so off to HQ and to do some grunt work helping set up RoA. It was with pleasure that the following year, I welcomed some of those young women from my AC twig as my younger Corps; two I became very good friends with and we stayed friends during Corps training. I wonder what has become of them.

Never mind Forum Rules, I want to post a photo but I can't, I've used all my allotted space and I can't remove any old photos to free up any more space.

Good grief! What a wacky thread! Never seen this before, read the first and last two pages. Weird as!

I use Edge, T-Bone. No problems posting.

I can see why they had this "no debt" thing - at least, for staff. People were paid on a "need" basis. And they might "need" to pay back student loans. So if someone said they had a need to be paid $xx for their needed food, clothing, household essentials, car, etc AND also the "needed" $xx to service their student debt, then TWI would be paying off someone's debt in a very overt way. Rather than giving a proper salary for someone to deal with in a responsible manner, it was part of another way to pry into personal finances. And then, of course, the trickle-down effect to minions... No idea why it should be applied to Adv Class students. Few of them would go on staff at any point, especially not immediately after taking the AC.

Oh! And this morning I am Dedicated, with a little green arrow. Arrow might show the exit route out of a certain place...!

Oh hey! I see I am now an Apprentice and have a leaf symbol. No doubt that means I shouldn't "leaf" this place just yet.

Oh, crikey, I knew a girl years ago, due to sit her end of school exams at age 18 or thereabouts. Hadn't done much study or preparing for the exam, too busy attending fellowships and helping her father "move the word." She said she was believing to pass and God would give her the answers, because what she was doing was Godly and more important than studying. Talk about taking the lord's name in vain...! I don't know what her results were, have never been in touch with her since.

Yeah, we have the Chief cook & Bottle washer expression here too. It's come to mean, sort of: a general dogsbody. Dogsbody itself being a weird expression. Though I suppose a CCBW (does a bit of everything) would be of a little higher status that a dogsbody (does menial [or even mean-ial] tasks). And a Man/Girl Friday would be a step up from a CCBW. Here's lookin' at ya, T-Bone

Thank you. I asked in this way, because I'm sure it'll be affecting other people too, sooner or later.

And I don 't want to delete all the attachments, either. Only some of them.

Okay guys, you've just modified the board. I don't seem to have capacity to attach a new photo. Nor do I have ability to remove old photos to free up space, despite there being a link to Manage Your Attachments. Did something get overlooked, or am I missing some instruction somewhere?

You mean you're not, T-Bone? You know, the cafe should have celebrated this upgrade with a new array of cakes and coffee. Or maybe I should just get something to eat. Just got in at the end of my working day. Chicken fillets, Jersey Royal baby potatoes, carrots, cauliflower and broccoli await my attention. Then rhubarb and yoghurt. Yum. Then maybe my GSC cake. Yum yum.

Oakie! Well, your own life has certainly taken a different turn from what it might have done in TWI. Likely to have been a lot more enjoyable than if you'd still been in. So glad you're participating in the real world. Not the box they tried to force you into.

I love trees, forests, being on mountains above the bushline/treeline looking down on forests, creatures that live in forests... I only have a small garden and I have planted several small trees in it. This city is full of mature and younger trees. The fringe of the city, where I live, has lots of wooded areas. Nice to walk in. My fave verse: Is 55:12 For ye shall go out with joy, and be led forth with peace: the mountains and the hills shall break forth before you into singing, and all the trees of the field shall clap their hands. Nah. It was the little leaf symbol on the 3/14 badge. Note, however, the 2/14 symbol is clapping hands. Yay!

I've just finished this (historical fiction): I'm pretty eclectic in my tastes. Lots of what's already been mentioned. I also like Jodi Picoult, who writes about social issues. Ken Follett's books are interesting, nobody's mentioned him yet. What I read depends on whether I want to learn something (so, perhaps, a bit of historical, or social, fiction), enjoy an escape (thriller/crime), veg out (any kind of rubbish) Before that, I recently read a cartoon book (also historical fiction). Sounds silly, it's only slender, but actually, there is a lot in it.

I see the symbol for an Apprentice with 3/14 (3 out of 14 what??) is a leaf. Haven't we had enough of leaves, twigs, Way trees, and the like? How about - um... err... em - an axe? To chop down the Way tree?

Something fishy (and rank) going on, perhaps? I dunno. Makes us all look like newbies. Weird. Apparently I'm a "Rookie" (with >5K posts!) and you, Bolshy, are an Apprentice, with slightly more posts. But we're both still on the Leaderboard.

Did you get booted, Allan? Your thread about LCM doesn't seem to be here now.

By the way, Mike, if you're ever in the UK you are welcome to come to my church or any of the associated churches, see what we do, spend time with any one of our ministers or staff, ask any questions you want about the work we carry out. I'm sure your practical help would also be welcome in cooking meals, distributing food parcels, StACCtion days (service within the community), sitting with the lonely and dispossessed and chatting to them. Hey, you could even pray with people from time to time. The church financial accounts are also easily accessible and any questions you want can be asked of our Treasurer about those. We've found our good works very effective. But come and see !

I have no idea what this post means. "The intensely tone"? "Mighty Fighter of the Evil Forces"? "Any good counterfeit is going to be camouflaged with lots of good." That sounds straight from the PFAL playbook. Without you even reasoning that actually, that's what TWI attempted. Except that the "lots of good" appears to have evaporated very, very early in the piece.