Twinky

I just bought six new windows for my house with my spare cash. They look very nice.

You might find some useful information here: Cult Info Since 1979 (icsahome.com) It's a link from former Wayfer Charlene Edge, who's now well and truly over her servitude to TWI (about which she wrote a "memoir"). You will get through this. Find some good (but non-pushy) wise and patient friends with whom you can be vulnerable about these things. It will take you time and you need some people to hold you safe. Keep safe. You may need to add to or change your group of supportive friends as your head clears. You may not like this, but I found safety in a church. But it took 10 or 12 years in the wilderness, or more, rather - at the bottom of a dismal dank well of misery - to get me to that church. Because I was afraid of church people! These people just quietly made space for me, asked no questions, were just there. Years later, one, now a close friend, told me they wondered what I was, what had happened, because I was quite weird to start with. To this day, though, nobody has ever asked me about why I was weird or about my experience in an abusive organisation. They just don't know, because I never told them. Maybe I will one day; maybe not. They were there for me. That's what mattered. I get a sense that you may be male, so you may find it hard to talk about your experiences. If you're female, you might be better at expressing what's going on in your head.

Started in Oz, I think, by a New Zealander. Whose son has just been forced to stand down as church leader because he didn't report his father's sexual abuse of young children. Hillsong founder rebuked for abuse handling | Stuff.co.nz

Heh, heh, WW. If only that were true, about Putin (political bit over'n'out).

Yeah, Outie. Me too. Thank God, that doesn't happen now, except one or two words and expressions are triggers. Usually, ones that he used aimed at me personally in face-meltings. However, they no longer fire me off into the lala land of self-condemnation; they fire me up to defend myself with vigour. Because Craig's opinion of me, masquerading as God's opinion of me, is irrelevant. I know what God's opinion of me is. And I'm very content with that.

Sorry to hear that, Nathan. Sounds as though your lad has some sense. Hopefully, you can help him keep hold of it. Develop his critical thinking skills. Sounds as if he has a questioning mind that will enjoy exploration of other viewpoints.

T-Bone, what a lot of pseudo-scientific gobbledegook. Some kids are just bloody naughty teenagers. Because they're just bloody naughty. Bored and won't find anything to do. (You can tell I'm heavy on the compassion this evening!) We here are all victims of TWI. And Craig is, too, grown man that he is. Some of us have had it hard with years of WC training and indoctrination. He's had all that, same as us, and in addition has been personally groomed by VPW himself. Whatever psychological problems some of us here have had, Craig has probably had in spades. He was groomed by VPW from quite an early age, early 20s or such like. And later, the other trustees, and CG in particular, beat up on him. Having said that, nobody here has 'fessed up to assaulting (raping) other people' spouses, and I don't know that any of us has delivered such excoriating face-meltings, physical and mental abuse, or widespread slander. But then, nobody else has been Prez either. I'm not excusing him, not in the slightest. He stuffed up my head and my life and I feel like I wasted a good 20 years post-TWI because of him. My life has never got back to what it might have been, and never will. I wonder if he has ever sought any help from professional therapists to deal with his mental health issues. He'd probably deny any MH issues, but it'd be astonishing if he didn't have some. I could almost feel sorry for him. But I absolutely don't want ever to see him or hear him: no, not never ever again. Well. Exception. A heartfelt apology. I might be willing to hear that.

One of the things that attracted me about TWI was its Biblical research aspect. I wanted to know about things like the Dead Sea Scrolls, and how they impacted the knowledge that we have now of the Bible and culture around the time the scrolls were written, or perhaps preserved. I'd never heard anything in any church, didn't know much about the scrolls, and hey! here's this great research ministry! When I asked the question, I was (no surprise) fobbed off time and time again. Eventually (par for the course), I stopped asking, forgot I'd been interested because swamped with too many other twiggy demands, etc etc. No surprise, as they wouldn't know or understand any research if it hit them with a Dead Sea urn. Or a wooden cross.

Y'all know that VPW forgot this (and y'all know he said he forgot a lot of Bible, more'n that preacher ever knew, or was it a British theologian? who cares?) - anyway, VPW forgot this: Romans 2:5 For on whatever grounds you judge the other, you are condemning yourself, because you who pass judgment do the same things. And we know that God’s judgment against those who do such things is based on truth. So when you, O man, [O any leadership in TWI] pass judgment on others, yet do the same things [or worse], do you think you will escape God’s judgment? Or do you disregard the riches of His kindness, tolerance, and patience, not realizing that God’s kindness leads you to repentance? I am not sure that the "long suit" of any of TWI's leadership was "kindness, tolerance, and patience." What their "long suit" was, led to fear and intimidation.

Interesting talk, gives pause for thought. But oh! how American! "I have something going on in my life, so I'll shout it from the rooftops and write a book about it." AKA, make money from it.

????????? Tell us more! (Maybe on "My Story" so as not to distract from this (slow-moving) thread.)

Very interesting link, Rejoice. Thanks. I see WW has copied it entirely, for ease of reference, perhaps, for some people.

I got the charging port replaced (cost me £30). Since then, it does charge, but really slowly. And also since then, the volume is poor - I've had two people today say that they can hardly hear me. I will have to go back to where I had the replacement fitted and see what else they can do, since neither charging is adequate and there seems to be something else malfunctioning that wasn't before they "fixed" it. It's my birthday at the end of this month and I have been offered some money towards a new phone. Might well take that up, but want to choose something that suits me. Most phones are a bit big in the hand (and the pocket - falls out). Possibly I'll get a reconditioned older-model phone, as some of these seem to be a bit smaller. My P10 measures 150cm tall, and one that I had my eye on is 168cm, and a bit wider too; it's quite a lot bigger. I don't need to spend a fortune on whatever I get.

By the way, you still didn't answer this. But that's no surprise.

Wow, thanks for that very perceptive comment, Mike. If you mean "your" as in my own individual "spiritual growth," hahaha, I'd invite you to come and see the things that I do. If you mean "your" as in this or some other group collectively, well, try really reading what people post. You will see much "spiritual growth." And if you mean "your" as in your own spiritual growth, I'd suggest you get your head out of the Orange book and start reading then living the Grace highway made available to us by the love of the Lord Jesus Christ (remember him?). You could also try reading and thinking about some of your own posts - ideally, before you press the Submit button.

I can go along with you on this. I was at a fellowship (long past my TWI days, but it was reformed ex-Wayfers who'd walked away from TWI doctrines). This was 20 years ago, I don't remember all the details. An older man attended. He had walked with sticks or crutches or some such (not in a wheelchair) for many years - the fellowship leader took him quietly aside into the kitchen with 1 or 2 other witnesses, prayed with him and held his hands as he took his first steps. A great shout of joy alerted all the rest of us to something amazing. Here was this man, walking, unaided, stumbling about in the kitchen. He then went outside (accompanied for safety by a couple of people) and spent an hour or more just walking around the little quiet road in which this fellowship took place, and getting better and better at balance, and walking. He was crying with joy. I don't know about afterwards, as I didn't go there often. I saw this. It happened. Who got the glory? God. The leader backed off and claimed no credit at all.

Mike: You did wrong! You broke the rules! Everyone else: What did we do wrong? Mike: Here's the rule book. You go away and find out what you did wrong!

Mike, I think T-Bone asked you a very specific question. But based on your reply, I'll rephrase it a little. In what way are 99% of people not loving? And how do you square that with people being a mixed bag, who can be very loving in one situation and (seemingly) a little less loving in another situation? Who got what wrong? Be specific.

Looks like an interesting book, Rocky. Been browsing it in the Open & Read Me bit.

Actually, I like this picture better: See the peaceful, cleansing wave, washing and smoothing the beach, washing away the "sand in the machinery of life" and the fear instilled by TWI in the heart of "believers."

My second wave. Note the smile on the face, as I wave GOODBYE to PFAL, TWI and all associated whatevers.

I have an idea that she started a cake making business somewhere. I found this post from 15 years ago. No doubt things have moved on for Claudettee since 2008.

I thought she'd left TWI and was running a bakery somewhere, making cakes or some such. I found this entry from 14 years ago.

Oh, don't waste your time by taking an interest now. This actress doesn't have a long career as a star. Just as a needle.

That Markle woman is a conwoman through and through. Apart from any natural ability, she's had years of learning to pretend to be someone else. And despite not being a very good actress, she's well and truly conned her prince, her main audience. I don't believe most of what she says: some things might have a fragment of truth, but she has embellished it so much that any original cause for concern is obliterated. She has no dignity or gravitas, and is an embarrassment all round. Focus is absolutely all on her, her and her, with glimpses of other people but only so as to reflect everything back at her. I doubt this marriage will have the longevity of other royal marriages. Is she a malignant narcissist? Certainly she has her own cult following. And I believe she will cause damage to them. I could mention another malignant narcissist with his own cult following but I won 't because that would get my post banned from here. VPW's delusions of grandeur were just that. Delusions. Quite a small-time conman, really, but he did a lot of damage. I'm glad I never met the man in person.