Twinky

This seems to have turned into a discussion on RoA - which is currently cancelled by the current TWI leadership (no doubt because the number of people attending wouldn't cover more than a small back yard. The massive fields that TWI has would be obviously vacant, not as in some previous years. I don't know if the current trustees, BoD or whatever they call themselves will reinstate RoA in some form. Hard to see how they could do that without completely embarrassing themselves. They'd have to hide away all pictures of previous RoA. Would scarcely bring in enough people to pay for the hire of the big marquee.

Belonging? I was so "unattached" after TWI that I felt like a real drifter. So lost and unable to make decisions, even of what to eat. Living in a country not where born, with few people I knew, family elsewhere and I'd broken ties (one of my family, not parent, is particularly horrible - just is), rejected by all my TWI "family." Eventually, I found a much-needed sense of belonging by getting naturalised in the country in which I was living. We all need to "belong" somewhere. In our community, our family, our church, our "group" of whatever we enjoy doing. We don't have to be likeminded, but we do have links in common. I volunteer with a group that works with homeless people. Even the homeless folk have their own community, in which they "belong," and sometimes that's why they find it hard to leave and resume "normal" lives. Few friends/contacts outside that community. The ones who don't seem to have a community, the "loners" who don't seem to belong anywhere - those are ones to watch out for. They can become increasingly dysfunctional and that can lead to increasingly antisocial behaviour. We all need to belong somewhere.

Not to mention that everyone had to sit on the floor in the BRC "at the feet of the MoG." Plenty of chairs available, but not allowed to use those. Many people acquired backrests to make the floor-sitting a little more comfortable.

I frequently wondered that. Never got an answer beyond: If you can make more sounds, then God can give you more "words" to say. Yeah, noticed a lot of that pre-Pentecost and thereafter. Even that Paul. Said he SIT more than other people. Must have had lots of practice sessions. Hmph, Not! Doesn't even take into account that you might already know and even be fluent in several languages very different from your mother tongue.

Manifestation = obviousness. manifestation φανέρωσις (phanerōsis) Noun - Nominative Feminine Singular Strong's Greek 5321: A manifestation, disclosure. From phaneroo; exhibition, i.e. expression, a bestowment. Cognate: 5321 phanérōsis – a manifestation, a "coming to light." See 5319 (phaneroō). Amplified version: 7But to each one is given the manifestation of the Spirit [the spiritual illumination and the enabling of the Holy Spirit] for the common good. 8To one is given through the [Holy] Spirit [the power to speak] the message of wisdom, and to another [the power to express] the word of knowledge and understanding according to the same Spirit; 9to another [wonder-working] faith [is given] by the same [Holy] Spirit, and to another the [extraordinary] gifts of healings by the one Spirit; 10and to another the working of [a]miracles, and to another prophecy [foretelling the future, speaking a new message from God to the people], and to another discernment of spirits [the ability to distinguish sound, godly doctrine from the deceptive doctrine of man-made religions and cults], to another various kinds of [unknown] tongues, and to another interpretation of tongues. 11All these things [the gifts, the achievements, the abilities, the empowering] are brought about by one and the same [Holy] Spirit, distributing to each one individually just as He chooses. (I underlined the "familiar" bits.) Now hang on a bit. What's this about the expressing of words of Wisdom, etc? Step back a bit further. Verse 7 states these obviousnesses are "for the common good" (same in several versions). That's the common good of your friends, neighbours, colleagues, city; everyone, everywhere. It's not limited to a fellowship or church setting. So why do we suppose these manifestations operate only in private or in a TWI-setting? Take a look at other people, outside of Wayfer groupthink. You may well find that there are some people who seem extraordinarily wise, whose words offer comfort, guidance, etc - who always seem to know just the right thing to say. It's their background, training, thinking patterns, all of that - and something else. God has seeded, or salted, his people through all walks of life. Let's face it - we all need someone wise to turn to. Same with every other manifestation. Even "gifts of healings" whether or not they believe in God, Jesus or that the earth is flat. Soothing words of wisdom can operate just as well in conjunction with gifts of healings - see the rise of "talking therapies" these days, where we talk with trained counsellors, psychologists, etc or just mentors, to help us through difficult times. TWI picked on the noisy stuff because it was an attempt to distinguish themselves. They forgot what might be more significant - being wise, having vision for the future [prophecy], discernment [getting a handle on the motives of others] etc. This thread relates to TWI's newest class. Do you think they'll manage to remember that there are other people out there upon whom God's blessings fall, believers and unbelievers alike? D'ya think they'll understand that "common good" relates to everyone - and not "common with distinction" meaning only Wayfers?

Good to see that the Mary figure is obeying covid mask safety.

And teaching leeching ministry.

Was that meant to be sarcastic? He didn't have a "research ministry." He had a deceiving ministry. Now, who would that be from? The father of lies, perhaps.

Thank you, Nathan.

"Consulted" could just be a gloss on "read a few books that they wrote" [and that he subsequently plagiarised]. "Worked with" could mean he laid out the chairs for their meetings . Or chopped wood or washed the dishes. I doubt he "chopped Word" and discussed theological issues with anybody. Y'know. Like his association with the baseball lot. Giving you to understand that he'd been a hotshot player, when he probably only sat on the bleachers. He doesn't mention the people he really poached his classes from, nor Bullinger (dead before VPW born) whose works he also plagiarised.

Now that is a very good point. And it puts the face-meltings and slanderous remarks that were so commonplace in TWI in perspective. If VPW can "face-melt" and pour scorn upon Jesus in this way - hey! those of us that suffered face-meltings for from him (or in my case from his protege Craig) are in very good company! I heard many such slanderous remarks about "cop outs" and other perceived transgressors, usually well after they'd been ejected. I used to wonder how such evil people could possibly have hidden in our midst - I knew some of the slandered people well and found the allegations hard to even begin to fathom. And over a decade after M&A-ing me, I was told about slanderous comments that had been made about me at the time. Absolutely no basis in reality. They were so slanderous they were hysterically funny, as anyone who actually knew me would know. (At least, I hope so! Unless they were wearing PFAL-coloured glasses.) Perhaps we should see such face-meltings as a badge of honour?! Jesus, now. Had plenty of unprovoked and vile attacks, both slanderously and physically, in the time he walked on the earth. His ministry disparaged at every turn. Others apparently using his name in vain. No doubt Vic's insults would just have elicited a shrug from him: not important enough to bother about. Jesus would have swatted away the fly that was VPW and just gone along on his way.

Except that he wasn't a "bastard" since his parents were legally married at the time. It was after she was betrothed but before she was married that she became pregnant. It's highly likely that the time between betrothal and marriage was only a very short time - though long enough for Mary to realise. And for the angel to have words with Joseph. If you read your OT, if a man had sexual relations with a woman before marriage, they were compelled to be married, because he'd sullied her honour. It was considered rape. But there is absolutely no inference that the child so conceived would be subject to any abuse, penalties, exclusion, etc. In fact, it was all about protecting that child and its mother. Lots about this (and other sexual relationships) in Numbers and Leviticus, but right now I don't have time to look it up. You can have a rummage around in BibleHub to find the references if you want.

Mike, I ask you this question in all sincerity. Do you read The Bible? Do you sit down and just read it? Like a book. Like a favourite novel or history book or whatever. Take off your "thinking brain" that runs off in particular directions when you read certain verses, and just read for the pleasure of it? Do you pick up the Bible and read, say, the gospel of Mark, or one of the epistles? Or more esoterically, a chunk of Numbers or Leviticus or Jeremiah, or Micah or Hosea? Do you read the Bible, or do you just read books about the Bible?

Retemories... now there's a great jargon word. Does it interpret itself? Does anyone outside TWI have a clue what it means?

I think, Mike, that you'll find many of us focus on the good we got FROM THE BIBLE, not from PFAL in any of its forms. That's where we get our peace. We're at peace with what GOD wrote. I doubt you'll find anyone here who has a driving need to "be at peace" with what you wrote.

Amplified can be very good, because it tries to include words that nuance the meaning of the bare English word, which is probably an inexact translation. Yes, probably that's where he pinched most of his "expanded literals according to usage." I'd noticed that before. Just like I'd noticed how often Bullinger's Companion Bible had found the same things that VPW had. Strange that - since VPW was being taught the word as it hadn't been known since the 1st century - and yet, here was Bullinger, a century before VPW, finding exactly the same thing... hmmm. I think VPW's claim was along the lines of how he put it all together. The big thing that he forgot was: putting it together includes living it. Because the whole point is to live as God wants us to. Not to become knowledge experts, but to become living-it experts. It would be nice to think that those teaching this new class were "living it" but I strongly doubt it. The only one I got a sense of reality from was the man OldSkool names as Lynd0n $uml!n. The others look like puppets. Which they are. TWI really should get a class together on motivational speaking for their presenters. There's loads of stuff available on YouTube, TedTalks, etc (all free!!! that should be appealing!), not to mention paid-for specialists who could give individual tuition.

This is precisely why Mike and his bloody "Easter eggs" that "doctor" hid in his various books annoys me so much. Who the h3ll needs to hide "God's secrets" when God himself wants to reveal them to us and so states, very plainly, very many times?

Not only was VPW self-contradictory in what was taught in PFAL (which hopefully this latest class will have sorted out by now, unless they're still practising the same particular type of double-think), his grammar was absolutely terrible, he didn't understand the English language well at all (not even the US version of same). So those folk here who want to nitpick about grammar had better start with him and his books - not with people here. And not only were his English and his grammar poor. His knowledge of the OT was poor, too. That I find particularly surprising. He did get a sort of divinity degree, which I think was sort of legitimate (unlike the papermill doctorate) but it's as if he'd never really read or deeply considered the OT apart from the bits he used to bolster his take on the NT. I'd've thought that he needed to have read and studied part if not all of the OT at divinity school. But perhaps not? Without a decent knowledge of the OT, much of the NT is reduced in its richness. There's a depth that comes from reading and understanding the OT and in all honesty, I didn't see that depth in VPW. Not once I'd got into and studied the OT, thought about it looking backwards and forwards and in context of later NT knowledge. Perhaps that's why he never taught much from the gospels? Didn't understand even them? I wonder if there is more depth in this new class? Are there "teachers" who have actually read the OT? Or are they just reciting VPW's words and least egregious errors, without engaging brain? Do I care enough to pay $xx to find out? No, I would not pay even one cent. Indeed, not sure I'd sit through their class even if they paid me!

Joke: “A panda walks into a cafe. He orders a sandwich, eats it, then draws a gun and fires two shots in the air. "Why?" asks the confused waiter, as the panda makes towards the exit. The panda produces a badly punctuated wildlife annual and tosses it over his shoulder. "I'm a panda," he says, at the door. "Look it up." The waiter turns to the relevant entry and, sure enough, finds an explanation. Panda. Large black-and-white bear-like mammal, native to China. Eats, shoots and leaves.” Book: Eats, Shoots & Leaves eBook by Lynne Truss - 9781101218297 | Rakuten Kobo Available from various sources. Book description: We all know the basics of punctuation. Or do we? A look at most neighborhood signage tells a different story. Through sloppy usage and low standards on the internet, in email, and now text messages, we have made proper punctuation an endangered species. In Eats, Shoots & Leaves, former editor Lynne Truss dares to say, in her delightfully urbane, witty, and very English way, that it is time to look at our commas and semicolons and see them as the wonderful and necessary things they are. This is a book for people who love punctuation and get upset when it is mishandled. From the invention of the question mark in the time of Charlemagne to George Orwell shunning the semicolon, this lively history makes a powerful case for the preservation of a system of printing conventions that is much too subtle to be mucked about with.

Well, that was a waste of 4-1/2 minutes of my life. The only one who seemed remotely interesting to listen to was the black guy in the middle. The others were so boring and - and where was the New? the Today? If I cast my mind back (which I don't care to), I reckon I could recite what they're going to say. I thought they might put something more - titillating? - today-ish, in, to tempt people along. And to start the bloody video with a clip of VPW... Yikes! Needs to come with a special "health warning" !!!!!!!!

It might be much more pertinent to discuss how we love God and how we love other people. Instead of discussing how other people claim to love God. (As a matter of fact, I can't recall hearing that VPW ever said he loved God. His actions - like the actions of a child - show otherwise.)

Let's distill this right back. WW states this: They knew the Torah. And the other books that comprise what we know as the OT. The leader of the early sect that became known as Christianity - one Jesus Christ - distilled the law and the prophets down very simply in Matt 22 to: 37Jesus declared, “ ‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’e 38This is the first and greatest commandment. 39And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’f 40All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.” THAT is "knowing the Word as it hadn't been known since the first century." Anything else is puff, really. "How to" but not the thing itself. FIRST: Love God NEXT: Love (not just be nice to) your neighbour I strongly suspect people knew how to do that in the first century. And in the second, third, and subsequent centuries. And hey, even in the 20th and 21st centuries. How does this fit with administrations, dispensations, whether God spoke (or not) to VPW? It doesn't. It overrules them as unnecessarily. Those things are nitpicking, frills, wish-lists for naysayers to argue about. Hey! God has spoken audibly to me on two occasions (and less audibly on other occasions via various diverse means). The audible words were personal for me and I don't plan on building a ministry out of it. No doubt others here can say much the same. It would be a sad and empty thing if God never spoke with those who love him.

Living on a "need basis," then. One wonders what their "needs" could possibly be, when staffers earn less than minimum wage (taking into account the mandatory "voluntary" overtime.

It's widely reported over the last few days that Elisabeth Moss, star of The Handmaid's Tale, was raised as a Scientologist, has no issues with it, and says it's an "open" and "misunderstood" organisation. (Others might disagree.)