Twinky

Teenage struggles? Any worse than the usual teenage angst? Don't all teenagers "struggle" as they develop into young adults with the ability to think and make decisions for themselves, rather than being told what to do by parents? FWIW, I found this article that gives a glimmer into his early years. It's his dad's obituary from 2014, so old news. Obituary | Rod Martindale | Roberts and Son Funeral Home, Inc. (robertsandsonfh.com)

Quite a bit also depends on your own background and how supportive that is. TWI will adjust its strategies to deal with individuals' insecurities.

Is just how I felt. It's particularly hard when for years, people have been encouraged to distance themselves from friends and earthly family who don't respond to "the word" as promoted by TWI. So when you've been M&A'd, there's nowhere to go (you think). All those bridges need to be rebuilt, too, and sometimes that's very difficult. Never fear: TWI has cast you out. GOD HAS NOT CAST YOU OUT NOR ABANDONED YOU and still loves you and will bring to you those who can help you recover from the abuse. You may not be able to help yourself, so God will put people in your path who can offer a kind word here, an action there, a place to be, a balm for your soul. You might not recognise it at the time, but it'll be something you'll hang on to. As OldSkool has said, counselling can help. Some people have found divorce recovery/workshops helpful. Or talking about it with a wise, trusted, loving friend might help. Luke 15 (also in Matt 18) 15 Now the tax collectors and sinners were all gathering around to hear Jesus. 2 But the Pharisees and the teachers of the law muttered, “This man welcomes sinners and eats with them.” 3 Then Jesus told them this parable: 4 “Suppose one of you has a hundred sheep and loses one of them. Doesn’t he leave the ninety-nine in the open country and go after the lost sheep until he finds it? 5 And when he finds it, he joyfully puts it on his shoulders 6 and goes home. Then he calls his friends and neighbors together and says, ‘Rejoice with me; I have found my lost sheep.’ 7 I tell you that in the same way there will be more rejoicing in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine righteous persons who do not need to repent. You were not just a lost sheep - you were a stolen sheep. Not only you (as a lost/stolen sheep) will be sought for and recovered, and brought home with rejoicing - the thieves will be dealt with too, in due time. Plenty of condemnation all over the Bible about not stealing and how thieves are to be dealt with.

PFAL/TWI is very far from being "inert." It 'erts people all the time, in so many ways. And like cellophane, or any other form of plastic round the face, we know how suffocatingly dangerous it can be. And by and large it's unrecyclable. Just like most of PFAL is unrecyclable into either its constituent parts or into use elsewhere - in life or church settings. It's just landfill waste.

That quote is sooooo two-faced. It makes me want to tear my hair out. Contentious and difficult, bickering, dividing.... Aargh! And - what??? WTF?? May the Father in heaven, for the sake of the only-begotten Son, bless us with such an abundance that we may cease to be part of the problem and become a part of the answer Huh?? They got the "bless with such an abundance" all right - they forgot the "become part of the answer." (What exactly was the question, again? "Let's not be divisive" or some such?) In fact, they are not part of the problem - they are the problem.

Y'know, one thing that worries me a little about this. Some of these folks will go off and start their own splinter groups. But some of them may go along to some churches and inveigle themselves into leadership positions. After all, they are "Revs" with many years of "leadership" behind them. Do they repent their ways? Genuinely? I do know of some who have left and joined "normal" churches, and some have risen to leadership positions - and appear genuinely repentant. But who knows what some (perhaps not the R&R group, which has a different agenda) may harbour in their thinking if they never address the faulty doctrines? And when they have practised wilful blindness and worse, deception, for decades, and accreted influence and supposed power over others - hmm. It's taken many of us here years to work out sensible approaches to gospel and theology free from TWI-taint. We here at the Cafe may not agree, but at least we've put thought and effort into what we believe now (or don't believe).

Vern still has a great smile. I remember him as being a nice, kind, gentle and open man. But then, that was - oh lord - 35 years ago. And I was naive and clueless about the inner workings of TWI. God only knows what sort of man he is now.

What's missing? "We believe salvation is by grace and not by works." Nor is salvation achieved by slavish follow-the-TWI leader.

Oh, and dubistkrank - welcome. Have a cup of coffee on the house. or would you prefer a beer?

What Rocky said. Also, try to keep lines of communication open between you and your mom. There may come a time when she tries to withdraw from you under pressure from leadership, who don't want their culties to associate with people who refuse to take "the class." If you are a Bible student of any sort yourself, when she raises it, gently ask her how such-and-such a proposition (that TWI teaches) lines up with more accepted Bible teaching, or passages of scripture. If you need help on any topics, you are more than welcome to ask here. Whatever it is, we as a group are likely to have dissected it and rebutted erroneous parts. Not everything TWI teaches is wrong (especially at the beginning), but everything has a slant to it, that quickly turns into a slippery slope.

Where'd you get this about pensions, Sky?

Could be a different person, Rocky. Court documents don't spell the name that way, unless there was an amendment that I missed seeing.

I think someone should reach out to the woman and let her know that this is the MO of TWI - if it is sexual assault that she is suing about. I don't suppose either TWI or its lawyers will be telling her that. They may even be telling her that sexual assault would be out of the question.

Absolutely! Looks like even the very same diagrams!!! The only person I'd be able eto stomach listening to is the black guy. He sounds enthusiastic and as if he has actually "made the word his own" and doesn't parrot word for word exactly what has been said since PFAL was first recorded. Nothing tempts me to consider for a millisecond undergoing this class ever again. But remember. "The word of God is the will of God." Okay? Well, the word is all about ACTIONS. Love God, and show it by doing things. Being kind to people. Being giving, being kind and compassionate. Forgiving one another. Looking out for the needs of others, and selflessly tending those needs. Getting out there and mixing with all sorts of people - good, bad, low in status or high in status. Absolutely none of "the will of God" is about sitting in a fancy ivory tower, or even a fancy auditorium, and listening and scribbling notes to oneself. Even less about isolating oneself to only hang out with others just like you.

They harassed me horribly, once I got to HQ. I now have an idea of what and why. Could be wrong, and don't like to read back too much into the situations that arose, but hmm, with hindsight, the process to break me down could only lead to one place. Yeuky LCM and his activities in the green room. (Gags.) 1995. My practicum year, I led a WoW team. My twig was pretty successful. One young man we witnessed to had had a troubled youth, suffering (he intimated without being explicit) sexual abuse from older family males. He was, however, hetero, a wonderfully kind man, always ready to help, and so very blessed and comforted by the love my wow family showed. He himself chose to go WoW the next year. Abuse got heaped on him because of his background and he ended up running away from them. Climbed through the bathroom window, I heard. I never heard of him again and often wonder what happened to him afterwards. I rather suspect that the sad place he had come from became very much sadder after his encounter with TWI. 1994. Another male was "run off" because he was actually a man that preferred other men, though he hadn't acted on that. He was abusively kicked out, condemned and bullied, and was deeply hurt because he'd really loved God. I heard tales that would be very slanderous - whether the alleged activities or anything remotely like them took place is another matter. I bumped into him in an airport many years later, when my plane was diverted. He recognised me and we had a long chat. I knew about the evils of TWI by that time. I was able to set his mind at rest and when we parted, he was happier than he had been for years. He'd just been a chap that came to twig. No leadership position. These events did NOT take place in the US. This is what was happening "on the field" in another country. There were some pretty weird and unpleasant things happened in the late 1980s in the UK too. That was when Geer was making his power grab. I can't remember specifics now. Just weird and horrible things.

Assuming you mean, those who helped him come to terms with his own behavior and to realise how wicked he'd been, and how badly he had damaged so many lives - yes, I'd agree with you. There's a standing invitation to him to come here and apologize. Sadly, I don't see that happening any time. Ever. He probably thinks he was "picked on" in some way, is faultless, and "the adversary" is out to get him. His biggest adversary is himself. His ego, and that part of him that should be safely behind a zipper. But denigrating LCM doesn't help Bolshy. I wonder what we can say, that will help Bolshevik?

Bolshevik, you do know that LCM ranted continually, do you? Man, could he rant and rave! Anger management? In spades! Lunchtime "sharings," especially; Corps Nights (2 or 3 hour rant, usually about homosexuals; Sunday morning fellowships. Not so much Sunday night services (too public). Occasionally he'd burst into one of our in-rez training sessions, yell his head off, and threaten to dismiss the entire group and send us all home. If you were "especially" favored, you could earn your own personal face-melting for some trivial act or omission. Or if he wanted to keep you off balance, he'd look sorrowfully at you and speak very quietly. All so reasonable, y'know. Very manipulative. I recall one time he hauled me in, was surprisingly restrained, and told me he didn't know why God had so much patience with me when I made so many mistakes and was so disobedient. (I think my sin there was to respond to a male on staff who'd spoken to me - not in my corps group, but someone I'd made casual friends with.) LCM had serious problems that he blamed everyone else for. His wife was in a lesbian relationship with a woman who continually goaded LCM; Chris Geer was jabbing at him (and the other trustees), wanting LCM's place as Prez; and worst of all, he was bonking Corpswomen, some being other men's wives. Not surprising that he felt attacked on all sides and very vulnerable. And not surprising that he took his anger out on those he perceived to be weaker than him, or in any way subservient to him. Like teenagers, and in-rez Corps. Like non-Corps staff members. Like spouse Corps. Like any other human being, actually. That type of behavior is commonly known as "bullying." And not surprisingly, he also blamed the attacks on him personally, on Waydale. With his track record, if he didn't attack a person, there was probably something wrong or fishy about that person - or they were the kind of person who was able to bring in a lot of $$ into TWI coffers. Bolshy one: consider his facemeltings as your badge of honor and personal integrity.

Perhaps, Bolshevik, if you could explain what happened, and what has so upset you? As I understand it, in brief: your parents dragged you as a teenager into TWI's clutches, once news of the lawsuit "got out"; you didn't want to have to go and were angry at the forced move; TWI read posts on Waydale that told what had happened to F* Allen and her husband Paul; LCM ranted outrageously about that at HQ, blaming Waydale for "lies," you took those rants personally. You weren't somehow accused posting those things, were you? Or accused your parents? You said you never posted there. It might be helpful (if you feel able) to share what happened, what were the circumstances that have so disillusioned you, etc etc.

Seems to me he was very talented. At what? At being a conman. So talented, in fact, that we are still talking about him and asking questions, nearly 50 years after his death.

I never heard of the Allens before joining the Cafe. But I thank them too. If GSC hadn't been here to tell the truth, I think I might have crawled back over broken glass to get back there. I was fully sold out to TWI and it was nowhere near my thinking to leave voluntarily. I was utterly shocked when I first read of the things that went on in TWI. Didn't believe any of it. At the time, there'd been a lot of sex scandals that had broken in the news about sexual abuse in both RC and Anglican churches. I knew TWI would never countenance any of that stuff. Their firm stand "on the Word" wouldn't permit it. Yet here was GSC telling a very different story. And making sense of some of the weird things I'd seen and disregarded. Big for GSC, Pawtucket, and the Allens. May their lives be happy and blessed.

Thanks, Nathan. Gaslighting. Yes. Yes, now I can see it as that. Perceptive of you. "Stand in the gap" also occurs in Ezek 13. Interesting when you read both passages. A lot, in both, is said about false prophets, those claiming to speak for the Lord - out of their own imaginations, as Ezek 13 says. These are the ones who build flimsy coverings over the gaps, and the repairs were unable to withstand anything. Rather like, don't you think, certain theology, including but not limited to, an Ohio cornfield. And also, to bring this back towards topic, the theology of those in another field.

What Rocky said. Martindale did a lot of "standing in the gap," cuz we wuz so weak in believing. Had to protect the household from the adversary, doncha know. I hate the expression. When they were trying to get rid of me, or cow me into some sort of doormat state, all the leadership picked on me - for the mistakes my man had made. I always seemed to be in trouble and had the Country Coordinator, and IO, and various others demeaning and belittling me over a period of about 6 months. Honestly, I was so confused, because there was nothing I'd done wrong (except decline the CC's sexual advances). (There, I've said it now. Y'all know.) Anyhow, there was one day when my fiance and I had a row about my incompetence and he started yelling at me that he was the only one "standing in the gap" for me. Him! He was the one that did stupid things and I stopped him making some bad mistakes. And he was the only one standing in the gap between me and "the adversary." Well, if you take "the adversary" to mean the BoT, the International Outreach coordinator at HQ, and my country coordinator - maybe the fiance was right. But dead wrong at the same time. He was too in thrall to them all, and others, to really stand up for me and tell them to pi$$ off. Or to 'fess up to his own mistakes.

I'm not at all sporty. I don't like running. However, I've run <>8 half marathons, most as fundraisers for a local Christian charity. I trained a lot for the first one and that was actually my worst time. Don't run now. Mild arthritis in right knee makes running after 8 miles quite painful. I suppose I could drop to 10k (about 5 miles) runs. But I still don't like running.

It's but what was the psychological hoax?

People might be interested in episodes or shorts of "It's Me or the Dog!" - available on YouTube. Watch how Victoria Stilwell trains dogs. Always with kindness. often coaxed with (rewarded by) food treats. Not punished for "wrong" or unwanted behaviour, just ignored until the dogs are calm, and then rewarded for calm behaviour. You won't see her or anyone else kicking a dog in the face to teach it who's boss.