Twinky

Well, it always seemed a strange thing, to raise the dead, sort of "Neh, neh, neh" gloat over them, and then consign them to ...? Raising/resurrecting/whatever those who have done well, to get their rewards, now that's a different thing. I do believe that those who have done well according to God's heart and within their cultural constraints will be rewarded even if they have never heard or had the opportunity of hearing about Him and His son JC (eg, South Americans in 167 AD, to choose something meaningless). And people today who genuinely have not heard. But something different for those in more recent times (post printing-press, perhaps) who have had the opportunity to hear but refuse to listen. But still: that's a "why?" rather than a "what?" so a different question. Though we could debate it here or on a different thread. Mark: Still pondering this. Thanks for the link.

Well actually there are lots of verbs with similar nouns, where the emphasis is different: I went to record a new record And there are those where there is no variation in emphasis: You need to exact the exact details Did digging the well go well? I taught English as a second language. My students (bless their hearts) really did their best but it wasn't easy for them. We had many laughs when their errors were explained. I learned a lot too. Unfortunately I can't recall at the moment too many of the gaffes. Add to the written indistinguishable the hearingly indistinguishable... Where can you find something to wear? There are their things, but they're not there with them Why's that happening, it's not wise There are fishers in the fissures

Deuteronomy 29:1-5 1 These are the words of the covenant, which the LORD commanded Moses to make with the children of Israel in the land of Moab, beside the covenant which he made with them in Horeb. 2 And Moses called unto all Israel, and said unto them, Ye have seen all that the LORD did before your eyes in the land of Egypt unto Pharaoh, and unto all his servants, and unto all his land; 3 The great temptations which thine eyes have seen, the signs, and those great miracles: 4 Yet the LORD hath not given you an heart to perceive, and eyes to see, and ears to hear, unto this day. 5 And I have led you forty years in the wilderness: your clothes are not waxen old upon you, and thy shoe is not waxen old upon thy foot. Guess those old Israelites escaping from Egypt wouldn't have been good enough, either.

Fix it? Count on spending as many years, maybe more, after they kick you out, "fixing" yourself.

So who taught VP? Didn't he claim to go beyond what he was taught (threw all his books away)? Didn't even acknowledge his own teachers, the ones whose work he plagiarized. Then God showed him an invisible snowstorm and promised to teach him (etc etc). And God can't teach us directly? If I can't go further than him - I'm a disgrace (you have to say that in the right VPW accent). What a bunch of mugs we all were. So glad to be free from that waterless cistern.

Lava lamps are those lamps with a blob of something in the bottom that rises up through some sort of liquid uup a glass tube or container and then the blob falls down back onto the bulb. Very popular in the 70s and making somewhat of a come-back. Have had various names but you've almost certainly seen one.

"Judging by how you talk you are probably from north Jersey, New York City, Connecticut or Rhode Island. Chances are, if you are from New York City (and not those other places) people would probably be able to tell if they actually heard you speak." Offers "The Northeast" "The Midland" would be better ... that would be the Midlands in the UK. (he he)

Bless her heart, Dan might not have said it quite the best way, but she seems to have got the gist of it. Welcome, Laura, you are very perceptive.

Condolences, Hiway. I'm sure God won't hold your lava lamp against you... Safari: I was showing someone the sort of thing I had been into. I wasn't fully healed at the time. The look on his face... I gave him the privilege of consigning the tape. He understood the significance.

Here’s something that I never got an answer to in TWI: If soul = breath-life and that ceases when a person dies If body returns to dust and to its constituent molecules If spirit returns to God but only people born again have spirit What “part” of natural man gets judged? 1 Thess 3:13-14“I would not have you ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep … them that sleep in Jesus.” What about the others, the un-born-again? They’re the ones who ask the question – the ones who really need to know! How are they to be answered? Romans 2:14-16 14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves: 15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience F11 also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another;) 16 In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel. 2 Timothy 4:1 1 I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom; Why would it be necessary to judge something that doesn’t exist anyway (body, soul)? Or is this just trying to fathom the mind of God (the automobile trying to explain Ford)?

Didn’t the TWI definition include something about being a spokeman for God? Bringing forth a message from or for (=on behalf of) God? Seems to me that if a person is walking with his heart close to God, eg, in a teaching or perhaps counselling someone, then the words spoken then are just as much “prophecy” as “the manifestation of prophecy” (as taught by TWI and splinters). That person would be speaking out the words that God would have those people hear. The person might become very adept at saying “just the right thing” to a group or to an individual that that group or individual needed to help them (if they listened) in their walk with God. Wouldn’t that be prophecy? Wouldn’t that person then be a prophet? Perhaps a (gift ministry) prophet? Is the distinction between one who exercises the manifestation of prophesy (= a prophet, at that time) and a gift-ministry prophet even valid, or is one just very expert at it (we can all teach, but some are expert at it; we can all pastor/care for, but some are expert at it). Just exploring ideas here. Surely prophecy isn’t limited to a few minutes in a fellowship? Or unusual visions? (Both or either of which could be right on or right off).

Jn 10:10 really needs to be seen in context starting definitely no later than Jn 9:39 where JC is confronting the Pharisees, and perhaps as early as 9:1. In fact, Jn 10:10 forms part of his reply to them. Steal –from whom? Kill, yes, kill the sheep, kill the owner’s livelihood (in purely physical terms). Destroy – who or what? Not just destroy the sheep, but destroy the wealth that is represented by the sheep, destroy the owner of the sheep. Sure the thief would steal the sheep’s life, but is that the context? Isn’t the context firstly the physical description of a thief breaking in and sheep-rustling (no doubt an image that most people at the time could relate to); and then the spiritual sheep-rustlers stealing from the spiritual owner? Stealing from JC/God? At this point, JC is referring to himself as the “door” (Jn 10:9). From the next verse (Jn 10:11), he refers to himself as the “shepherd” and starts a new image, of wolves getting in amongst the sheep, again an image the people of the time could easily relate to. The context also includes the shepherd’s personal sacrifice if necessary (10:17) but not at any point the sheep’s (sheep singular or plural) loss or sacrifice. The confrontation is of false ministers, those not serving their “flocks”. (As I write this, my eye catches 9:10: any man (sheep?) “shall go in and out” and find pasture/what it needs – so the sheepfold is not a cult-walled prison!) TWI taught this verse so personally (well, after all, we have a personal adversary) (!) that the wider context has been completely lost. TWI was focussed on materiality – even “prosper and be in health” - such that the wider meaning of prosperity (meaning simply to do well in every sense) and having life abundantly (meaning enjoyment and fulfilment) became almost a non-issue and people couldn’t see it in a context of anything but materiality. TWI never focussed on the theft from their people of the people’s wellbeing and enjoyment of life, only on their financial state. There are still those who think solely in these terms. = = = = = Isn’t the “all” in “all that ever came before me” just in context of those claiming to be the door or the shepherd? Otherwise you are excluding not just baal worshippers but prophets that are well-spoken of, and other leaders like Joshua, Ezra, Nehemiah, which is clearly not what is meant.

Along with other things, this Principle promises so much and delivers so little. Sounds like it means, help the homeless, set up a soup kitchen, help deprived kids, look after battered wives and families, visit prisoners, help delinquent kids avoid becoming prisoners, get your hands dirty DOING something for somebody else ... lots of other *community*-focused stuff. But that was Way double-speak. The missing words at the end are "... to TWI's corporate ego." Anybody with skills in those and similar areas soon found themselves being discouraged from using their skills in ... can't remember the expression, but the general thrust was to along the lines of "dog returning to its vomit" and "salt trodden under foot as worthless" and to belittle "secular" skills and desire to help as something so much less than you could give by "serving" in the household. Folks, TWI missed a real recruiting ground. Just as well. Needy people have enough problems.

From the "honest obit" thread started in this section Extract from the James Kim obit: "Kim earned his friends' respect by the way he treated people, but many of them revered him for the way he cared for his family." About which if any leaders (current or in past decade) in TWI could that be written?

It seemed a great video at the time. When I watched a clip of it a few months ago I was appalled and embarrassed - that was good and instructive :unsure: ??? ...I rewarded LCM the way he rewarded so many - chucked the video on the fire. But I could root around for some ashes if anyone is interested?

Frank Example: JC confronting the Pharisees. Conclusion: It's more than okay to think outside the box (especially the TWI box) and you definitely have to consider the junk TWI the Pharisees spouted out. If in doubt, engage brain.

Depends on who does the teaching, doesn't it? It's Christ in you and HE does the teaching. Limitless.

Welcome! You will find decent chat here, the odd disagreement and lots to help you. You sound as if you have been lurking for a while - take the time to read the articles here. Some are really helpful. You will know the truth about TWI and the truth will set you free. Read whatever you can, drop off the waybrain and you will really see things come together. (Be warned though, this site can be addictive as you start to get healed.) What turned people onto Jesus Christ was his COMPASSION for them. It's Christ in you - so *have some compassion for yourself.* Maybe the sermon felt intellectual because there was no ranting and hissy fits. Just remember who DID NOT go after the lost sheep but rather sent them out to get lost. God has a great big hug for you and he wants you to hang out with him again. Welcome back, he says. Yeah, really. He's not wanting to condemn you but to help you. Just take time to listen; He has your recovery plan all worked out. Spit on that mean TWI voice that says you're not worth talking to. In 6 months my own life turned from abject misery and utter despair, to brilliance, enthusiasm, and tremendous success. So many things have happened that they can ONLY be of Godl Life's a real thrill. He wants this for you too. Looking forward to seeing your post in six months saying that business is booming, you are looking for extra space and you need extra staff to help you cope. Have a WONDERFUL day.

Wenches in the imagination, at least (snigger, snigger)

Great fun was had in rez when some Brits taught some interesting expressions to the US in rez. One of the US in rez came to me after some time and told me that they had been told that ... meant ... (I can't remember the expression used, but I think it was something like "wank".) One look at my shocked expression told the enquirer that it wasn't quite the "harmless" word that the Brits had said. :wacko: Those Brits had a good laugh out of it though. (For the unitiated, US folk "wank" with a spanner (wrench) to tighten nuts and bolts. Brit males might engage in an activity of the same name (verb or noun) on their own anatomy and it has nothing to do with spanners though some might say it has to do with wrenches...) The first few months in rez were occasionally a bit eye-boggling as expressions with "rude" (Brit)connotations were used with no such connotation and completely unrelated meanings in US-speak.

Well actually I rather liked being there...but then it was only for a little while, starting a few weeks before Family Camps began for the summer and then until everyone went to HQ, so it might have been a different atmosphere. Long hours and lotsa work, but a different atmosphere because there were all the outsiders there. Nobody bitched or was legalistic or confrontational. I remember it as a really good time. When I first got there, I had a few days living in a big log cabin on my own (score, hey?) and blessed every morning when I could step out onto the landing and see the sun on the mountains on the horizon. Did lots of things I'd never have done otherwise and thoroughly enjoyed it.

Not a bad idea, sorting the wheat from the tares. Plenty of tares (or tears, pronounce it as you will) in the life of every ex TWIer. When we get rid of those, we start to see what (if anything) we really have. PFAL “worked” because it hijacked the work of men who understood the basis of what became PFAL. Examine everything. Some of what was taught is true and accurate and “works”. That’s the wheat. Hold fast to that which is good. Incinerate the rest. Let what “works” fit individuals’ lives. Everyone’s circumstances are different, not the one-size-fits-all of PFAL, just like one size loaf of bread suiting the needs of one individual or an extended family. Is “make it your own” wheat or tares? Wheat, if meaning to take to heart. Tares, if it means there is no scope for individuality in application. Or is just the answering of that “either/or” question “soft extremism”?

Slightly "off topic" but ... I've just been packing to move home and - you know those padded envelopes you can buy - they're always useful to keep. I dug into my bag of padded envelopes and pulled out a useful one and as I was packing something into it, noticed it was from WayGB - Gartmore(!). The postage strip across the top proudly announced: "Europe's first line of Defence - the Power for Abundant Living Class" in a nice prominent box, the place where a firm's logo or name and return address might sit. Europe's first line of defence? HELLLLLLLLPPPPPPPPPP!

When I read this it was just as if someone was peering into TWI and exposing all its nasty bits. It seemed as if it was about TWI. Yes, I wanted a highlighter too but decided a book on entirely yellow paper wasn't a blessing. When I looked at the date of the copyright, it was shocking to see that it was originally written many years before and this was just an updated version. Freeing to read - but oh, how horrifying to think that this sort of treatment has been going on ... and on ... and on ... There is nothing new under the sun... There is nothing new in spiritual abuse...

Wot, killing off your parents?? For the house?? :wacko: Probably on balance a muslim mortgage would be better than killing off your parents. At least to most people. Or is that thinking carnally? (he he he)