Twinky

Those people – may they rot… This surely has struck a chord here. So many have suffered – men and women. Husbands and wives, fiancés and fiancées. I recently found a book called “Women in Christianity”. It traces different “paradigm shifts” in thinking about women. Starts with a quick look at OT history. Then a lot of focus on how JC dealt with women (they were his friends, faithful where some of the men friends failed/fled) and the respect he had for them. Then a look at Acts. Then a look at medieval views of women and the rise of Mariolatry (worship of Woman as symbol rather than Woman as real human being) – running hand in hand at the time with the eventual requirement for clergy to be celebate. The serious imbalance in all aspects of life between men and women and the subjugation of women began in earnest around this time, giving rise to the idea of wife as home-body, child rearer, etc and the man out there doing business, fighting wars, etc. Then later developments from there, where women have clawed back their independence, right to exist and to – basically enjoy life. Women are still working on getting equal status with men in many areas, but it’s a lot better than it was even a couple of decades ago. It was most interesting and many ideas around the subjugation of women and their individual rights (economically, physically, everything) really clipped in, in the later Middle Ages. The TWI attitude is as bad as the worst of the Middle Ages oppression. Perhaps we can think of the cruelty to others “worthy” of oppression – the Inquisition(s) where many were tortured for different religious beliefs. TWI put male/female relationships through their own peculiar form of mental torture. Congratulations to anyone whose relationship survived. Mine didn’t. A know-it-all TC many years younger than both me and the fiancé decided he knew more about both of us and our own relationship than we ourselves did. That TC was my Corps bro, and both of us many Corps later than my fiancé. The TC was an arrogant b***** when I first met him, and he got worse the more time he spent in the WC. But on the positive side, it gives me lots of opportunity to work on forgiveness…

Man, those ravings from LCM about neat guys like Fred and Steve are just (shudder, shudder, shudder :( ). I didn't know Steve (or can't recall him) but he sounds a nice guy who had been really wrung out by LCM. I did know Fred and he was a lovely guy and my memories of him are of a sweet honest guy. Point to ponder: If these guys for their alleged faults (inc the fat HFC) were worthy of the deaths that they invited on themselves (in LCM's opinion), what is LCM, who has deliberately deceived and wilfully hurt so very many - thousands - worthy of? He should be mighty thankful he is not getting his just desserts (according ot his own warped thinking). Point 2 to ponder: who is 2x2 with him??? (Any volunters? Thank God for His grace, that we don't get what we are worthy of. And sometimes bad things, even death, happen even to those who are just living life normally. What is the grace that God is able to make abound towards us for, anyway? Just these situations, no?

As much as anything, isn't freewill about the attitude (especially the attitude of our heart) we choose to take? Not necessarily our actions, which may well be governed by external forces. JC had the choice in the garden whether to follow his own will and run away, far away, from the people he knew were coming to kill him; or whether to stay and follow God's plan. He stayed and went through with what had been prepared since the fall of man. Was that "free will" or "predestination"? If he can exercise free will at such a time, we must also have that choice available to ourselves. TWI's problem is that it usurped the position of God, suborned His people and then corrupted the concepts of free will and loving submission.

Chas, is that what the "Jesus spirit" did? Slayed people in the spirit? (shaking head, eyes wide) I think I knew "it made people pray to Jesus." Love the letter on GSC that's been posted recently that shows VPW once said that it was okay to pray to Jesus (that would be before VPW himself became Jesus, of course (tongue in cheek)). It's just words. What matters is the attitude of heart. There are people out there whose hearts are God-ward and who pray to God, pray to Jesus, believe in the trinity, don't believe in the trinity... None of us knows it all. Everyone has some sort of belief or doctrine wrong. But as we focus on His (their) love for us, then we can get answers and rest to the soul.

The Jesus devil spirit... I don't even know if there is such a thing. TWI saw so many devil spirits that didn't exist, perfectly decent people hounded over things they didn't do or know about (the homopurge - how many were accused? Probably every one who was kicked out. How many even thought of that stuff? Probably very few). TWI did not want us to know about or appreciate what JC has done and continues to do for us. TWI wanted the adulation as the intercessors. Right from PFAL where VPW said, "Write to The Teacher..." I saw the ego (didn't stop me jumping in the pond, though). Jesus spirit? I'd say (if there is one) it infected VPW big-time and made him think that he was JC. And God, too. Still working on a proper relationship with my Big Brother JC (and with my Dad) but I know they both love me and are helping me see them properly. So many prayers answered since their tender constant loving care has broken down the shell of hurt and despair. (edited for emphasis)

Bob and Dottie are going back? What about the "low level Corps" with them? (Please say they are going too) The American way of doing things is such a turn-off in Europe. That's why CG didn't succeed (never mind his personality). VPW called Europe "spiritually dark" - pity he didn't see the darkness within. Nonetheless there are some very hot believers all over Europe whose lives are shining lights. Now back to the regularly scheduled entertainment...

I'm buying my first ever house (with a mortgage, gasp, but the tale of that is another story). Things have chugged on slowly and today it became obvious that the seller is having some serious problems in her personal life. That's not helping matters to proceed. And that makes difficulties for me. I got a bit wound up and took myself off for a bit of a walk to talk it over with my Dad. I found myself just praying for that lass's comfort and for her needs to be met; for her to be soothed over what she is going through and her being able to focus on what she has to do now to help herself. So much nicer than the "God, fix my problem" sort of prayer. So much more soothing and peaceful to pray for someone else and be outward-looking not inward - with her wellbeing at heart. TWI not only forgot that we are to be servants, they never taught that we are to serve by praying for others. Especially unbelievers. (edited for italics)

Bolshevik, did you know him?! Zap me, what is this about the gleaming light? Glad to hear he got married. Very pleased for him. Is she a WC grad? Are they still with TWI? Any idea what they are doing now?

You - shot - a - fish??? :unsure: Did you mistake him for a deer or something? :blink: Or was K-Mart fresh out of fishing line?

Hi Roy, have a great day. No pix, just good wishes. Twinky

Last heard of at HQ, but that was several years ago.

Good on Leah! She is still a beautiful flautist. Did she get M&A'd when she eloped? Like the rest of us here - she's thriving on it.

My Corps bro! A great guy. Often think of him and his Pringles.

I sometimes attend Methodist chapels with friends or relatives. And I sometimes attend a surprisingly laid-back Anglican church. The focus at all of these places is so humble, and so outward-reaching, that occasionally I am shocked. But thrilled and excited. Another time I was in a Bible bookstore and a youth came in and tried unsuccessfully to snatch a customer's purse and then fled. The shopkeeper and the customer immediately prayed for the young man, for his deliverance from the evil in his mind. I was shocked ... at their compassion, and at my own unkind thoughts about the youth. The incident showed me just how thoughtless and "superior" I'd learned to be at TWI. And what can be learned from other groups. And yes, Belle: life is much more peace-full.

What an interesting and refreshing topic! Amazing how many people here have said their prayer life has picked up and they feel free to express emotions. Too many ritual prayers... We were taught not to say "Our Father, which art in heaven..." and then taught a whole load of new prayers which did become just as repetitive. Yes, it is good to pray for so many of the things that are prayed for... but the heart really wasn't there sometimes, just another ritual. And so much inward-looking prayer, not prayers of thankfulness - as if God were our servant, not the other way around. You would never speak to a person standing in front of you in that terminology. As a newish PFAL grad I got reproved for saying the "wrong" thing in manifestations (right there and then) - but then this character loved being "spiritually sharp" and jumping on people (as far as I know, the person is still with TWI). And I have seen people "reproved" for not using the right "formula" in what is clearly a heart-felt prayer. (How egotistical is that? (shudder)) Life has been wonderful since I learned to pray again. Quiet time with God is so refreshing... pressing the "re-set" button on life. To some extent it seems to me that life is a prayer, as we set our hearts to do our best according to what we know, and desire and strive to walk correctly, lovingly and manifest those Galatians fruits.

All this standing up whenever a Rev entered the room got to me big-time in rez. Especially if you were in a room where some kind of set-up or meeting or presentation was going to take place shortly afterwards. Got so confused about when one should and shouldn't stand up that quite often if at all possible I left the room altogether. But that's a little "off topic" ... Isn't what we are talking about, whether women should rather lie down (not stand up), when a Rev (or certain of them) entered a room? (tongue in cheek). And it is obvious that David also had "hustlers" - after all, 1 Kgs 1:2-4 describes their actions in finding a "young virgin" to keep him warm (the dirty old lecher). He obviously thought his right to any woman in the kingdom continued for the rest of his life and perhaps only stayed off married woman after the prophet Nathan's warning... ... a lesson LCM failed to learn.

If it were April 1 I'd feel tempted to set up a false identity and log in as "L Craig Martindale" and post: but it's not April 1 ... another year, maybe.

There are some pages in my Companion Bible that are almost illegible with notes, tiny tiny pencil notes (pen bleeds through the pages). But many of those were things that I had studied for myself. Decided to ignore all of those. I've just started using a Companion that was given to me at Corps graduation but never really used hitherto. New beginning, and all that. I can always refer back to my old Companion - and other reference books, yes, I do look at those now - if there is a driving need to know.

Yeah, too right, perhaps it's also the basis for the later demands for submission of women to men (not just wives to their husbands, but fiancees to their fiances - setting the standard (ha) early), but the wider application of belittling women at every opportunity and always taking the man's side. Many here have seen (and experienced), or know of suffering friends. Much has been shared about how the abuse of women by their men - women whose very lives have been threatened - has been supported unquestioningly by leadership, but the women have been told to be more submissive to their men and it is their own fault for not being submissive enough. And no-one takes the offending men to task about their treatment of women. Chattels, belongings, possessions, things - the talk was about the wonderfulness of women (VPW even made a poem/song about the Wonderful Woman of God) but the practicality was completely different - simply no respect at all. VPW also said that a man should be "king in his own home." So following David's example, then, does that mean he legitimized adultery, David-style, for every man? Further question: did men believe this lie (all women belonged to the king) more than women? Or were we all equally browbeaten?

From another thread: Did anyone ACTUALLY believe this was the case? Did people just take VPW's say-so? Note that VPW never gave any actual support to this proposition - no cultural background, of this or any other cultural group of the time. Clearly Nathan the prophet did not believe this was the case, even right at the time. The lie was denounced before it was uttered. Another problem with PFAL: you couldn't ask questions, but were told to wait until the end of the 12th session. By which time this evil lie (and many others) had been allowed to lie unchallenged in the mind and was overlaid by so much other stuff of seemingly more significance that it never did get confronted. Subtle, insidious... his success is in the secrecy of his moves... ...just a statement lodged quietly in the brain like a virus, ready to be developed with present-day sexual manipulation later. Did anyone believe this astounding statement, truly? Did anyone confront it (and stick around)? Did anyone get an answer? (edited to add "12th")

Keep it simple - how about "Dozy Rosie" (ducking) Dooj - you are so funny (he he)

Thank y'all very much. I had a great day at work and a lovely weekend with lots of nice friends. Thanks also to those who PM'd me. Birthdays just get better and better. Thanks, all, again. Twinky

Job was a rich man and was thought well of by God. Parents are encouraged to "lay up" for their children. Wasn't "Uncle Harry" supposed to have made millions by giving good service to his clients? When the focus of life becomes money, that's when someone won't get into heaven (ie enter into the blessings now, perhaps). The castigation is of those who have the means (money) but refuse to use it to help those in need. If instead people who make lots of money are happy to give some/lots of it out again to support those in need, that's walking godly. This passage is challenging people to think where their focus really is at - whether their treasures are laid up in heaven or whether they are laid up earthly where rust and moth can corrode them. You can look forward to seeing your aunt at some stage in the future. And if you are so foolish as to give away ALL your wordly things, you will be the one with the need not the one with the blessing.

Congrautlations to all you lovely longstanding marrieds. Glad you made it through everything that's come at you during your many years together.

"In the bullet"???