Twinky

Only reason to want to know where, is to know where to avoid.

Cortright site might help but is very much out of date. Check out Find a Friend on GSC

Don't sit woodenly still throughout entire meeting. Get up quietly and visit the smallest room (or even just wander about outside). You may return to meeting with a glass of cold water. Don't stand up for the rev. Don't applaud the rev as he walks on stage. Remain seated with hands folded in lap. Select a non-KJV version of Bible to take to meeting. If wished, point out subtle differences to person sitting next to you. Attend meeting in shorts and T shirt. Shoes optional. Feel free to show respect to whom respect is due. Feel free not to show respect to whom none is due. Feel free.

I seem to have missed something here. Isn't the greatest leader the greatest servant? Shouldn't therefore the leadership be "hupotasso-ing" the rest of us? (tongue in cheek) (Shove over, THW and dmiller, I need to lie down too...)

and Roy So what exactly are you talking about here, Mo and Roy? What is "the real"?? :huh:

Yeah, he did make some prognostication that he was going to cut down on the bad language. I think he did ease it a bit, as well, at least for a while. Y'know, at one time I thought he was "passionate for the truth" (and perhaps he was at one time) but being passionate about something (anything) and being foul-mouthed are poles apart. If he carried on like that in a public place, he'd probably be arrested for obscenity.

J, the friend of a friend of a friend, witnessed to me at a party held in the back room of a pub. J was on his WOW year at the time. I was impressed with J's knowledge of and confidence in God. I saw that what he prayed for - happened. I wanted what he had. But I hated the PFAL class.

Oh, guys, you are all so funny! The TWItanic, excellent. And yes, any survivor would have to think long and hard about getting on the like. Perhaps providing own safety equipment to be carried at all times. Waysider: maybe a coracle, then.

Nah, they're just looking for the yellow wellies.

Everyone crammed into the same tight-controlled environment. A great big stumbling block in the route Catastrophic collision Families separated People falling out or falling off. Landing in the depths of despair. Swimming, sinking, drowning, drifting. Clutching at any old flotsam that came their way. No life rafts or life belts – you should believe God to meet your needs Icy water – it’s cold out of the household A struggle for survival, sanity Long-term trauma for the survivors Some didn’t survive Some are still lost at sea A few random thoughts inspired by another thread. Reads a bit like a poem but it was just as the thoughts occurred. Was the demise inevitable? (Seems to be still sinking) Are there any life rafts (job security, pension arrangements) for people still on board (apart from the head honchos)? …When the captain was shoved off the ship, did it make any difference? Or was it just a paddle boat, thought it was the Titanic? (But really I am concerned about the people who suffered, not the organization)

Back to the regularly scheduled topic... Thanks, Paw, for the hard work you put into this place. Here's to the next seven years (NO WAY, he screams!). Scary that this place is still picking up survivors.

Can't say I ever really bought into that stupid statement. One of the many things put on hold. My mum always wanted to know where I was, with whom, and what time I would be home. (If I wasn't in by 9.30 pm I got a beating. Or at least an earbending. And grounded.) Did that mean she was afraid? No, it meant she cared! If she didn't like the people I hung out with - she wouldn't let me out. She cared! She taught me and my siblings to wash, clean, dress ourselves; how to cross the road; how to behave ourselves; social behaviour; not to steal, etc; not to get into cars with strangers; to tell if anyone approached us/threatened us. Because she cared - as any wise mother would be. Not because she was scared. But now Sudo... I 'fess I am a little scared for you. Why'd you keep that junk around anyway? Very scary stuff. Don't you know it harbors debbul spurts?

Absolutely awesome if you get to see it on a big screen (movie theater). Not that it isn't awesome anyway.

Just found this whilst rummaging in the Cafe in an unfamiliar place... So, of you who have now seen the movie, which has been out for a while now, what did you think? What do you think now, perhaps some time after you've seen it? Not wholly accurate, but nothing like the saccharin version usually portrayed either. As others have said: stunned silence, gripping, sombering, intense, profound. More respect than ever for what JC did, for the many wounds he bore on behalf of all of us. Respect for Mel Gibson, for wearing his heart on his sleeve too.

Hey, I just saw from the particulars when I first found the Café, early May last year. It’s just about my first anniversary here. What a year it’s been! From abject despair to a nearly-normal functioning human being. From despair and fear to openness and joy. From a desperate job where I was treated no better than in TWI (and put up with it, how stupid is that!!) to a job where it’s a real blessing to go to work and one I’m truly thankful for. From fear for the future to being just about to buy my own house (first ever, and with quite a big loan, too). From friendless to abundance of really good friends. From a knowledge of the words of the word to a knowledge of The Word. Freedom to think and not necessarily go along with (much less agree). Still working on a lot of things, but it’s not effort as in work, it’s effort as in relaxing and letting life be lived. Very thankful for this place, which has helped me sort out such a lot in my heart and mind. Next round’s on me…

...you automatically add the word "crew" whenever you see the word "beverage" ...you find yourself ushering people to the front of any large meeting (especially in a church) ...you think ABS is something to do with money and not something to do with car brakes ...you jump into bed before midnight so that the debbul spirits can't get you ...you can't read the print in your Bible because of all your scribbled notes ...you can't hold a conversation without thinking the other person is somehow out to trick you ...you distrust your family and your oldest and dearest friends

Bolshevik, ROF, LOL! (They made a pretence of scripture with women, to beat them up.) Did they give you examples of strong Biblical men (positively) rather than weak Biblical men (Samson, when he fell for Delilah)? (Thinking about it, what example of a strong Biblical man is there? It's about how such men handled problems, and if they were so strong, they wouldn't have problems, would they? They would have handled their wives properly in the first place!)

Well I seem to be a Socinian Evangelical Wesleyan. Now if somebody could just explain all that to me... Can't I just be me???

I remember the "no attachments" thing - spying on perfectly normal friendly relationships and making them to be more than they were. Or breaking them up. Also while I was in rez, from time to time the married men (only) would be called aside by the BC and given little talks. I believe one of these was an exhortation to make sure that they had sexual relations with their wives at least once a week (I think this was seen as their minimum duty (!) to their wives). Considering how hard we got pushed in rez (this is the regular Corps, not FC) it wouldn't surprise me if both parties were far too tired to bother much more often than that anyway. Any married men out there, did you get this sort of in-rez talk? Did they include stuff about keeping your wife submissive, quiet, and you "showing leadership"? And of course there was comment during Corps nights about families who had had difficulties, which were never discussed kindly (they shouldn't have been discussed at all). THW: Yes, exactly Bolshevik: difficult for you to know what to do. But what scriptures (if any) did they hit you with to show you how you should behave? (It sure wasn't "love your wife as yourself")

There’s a really good thread running at the moment about “Wives – the Non-Persons of TWI” and the abuse women got for not being submissive enough to their husbands/fiancés etc. It was abuse of both men and women in a relationship and a corruption of all that such a special relationship should be. I’d be interested to hear of specific ways that men were abused by those above who ordered them to be more Moglike/king-like/assertive etc. The theme seems to be that they were told they should control their women (ha!) and they were responsible for keeping their women submissive. What were the specific insults/threats/scriptures that were used, from the men’s point of view? How were men coerced into accepting this was appropriate behaviour?

Nice with sausages, bacon and eggs. Nice with grilled trout or salmon. Nice with sprinkles of cheese on the cut side. Nice with sprinkles of black fresh-ground pepper on the cut side.

Forgive me... For a bit of fun, I typed Way International into Google and at the bottom of the first page it offered me: SNO-WAY INTERNATIONAL snow and ice control equipment And I thought, Snow? Yeah, we certainly saw a lot of snow! Ice control equipment? People here know all about iciness and abundance about control! Stunningly boring site (yawn).

Those people – may they rot… This surely has struck a chord here. So many have suffered – men and women. Husbands and wives, fiancés and fiancées. I recently found a book called “Women in Christianity”. It traces different “paradigm shifts” in thinking about women. Starts with a quick look at OT history. Then a lot of focus on how JC dealt with women (they were his friends, faithful where some of the men friends failed/fled) and the respect he had for them. Then a look at Acts. Then a look at medieval views of women and the rise of Mariolatry (worship of Woman as symbol rather than Woman as real human being) – running hand in hand at the time with the eventual requirement for clergy to be celebate. The serious imbalance in all aspects of life between men and women and the subjugation of women began in earnest around this time, giving rise to the idea of wife as home-body, child rearer, etc and the man out there doing business, fighting wars, etc. Then later developments from there, where women have clawed back their independence, right to exist and to – basically enjoy life. Women are still working on getting equal status with men in many areas, but it’s a lot better than it was even a couple of decades ago. It was most interesting and many ideas around the subjugation of women and their individual rights (economically, physically, everything) really clipped in, in the later Middle Ages. The TWI attitude is as bad as the worst of the Middle Ages oppression. Perhaps we can think of the cruelty to others “worthy” of oppression – the Inquisition(s) where many were tortured for different religious beliefs. TWI put male/female relationships through their own peculiar form of mental torture. Congratulations to anyone whose relationship survived. Mine didn’t. A know-it-all TC many years younger than both me and the fiancé decided he knew more about both of us and our own relationship than we ourselves did. That TC was my Corps bro, and both of us many Corps later than my fiancé. The TC was an arrogant b***** when I first met him, and he got worse the more time he spent in the WC. But on the positive side, it gives me lots of opportunity to work on forgiveness…

Man, those ravings from LCM about neat guys like Fred and Steve are just (shudder, shudder, shudder :( ). I didn't know Steve (or can't recall him) but he sounds a nice guy who had been really wrung out by LCM. I did know Fred and he was a lovely guy and my memories of him are of a sweet honest guy. Point to ponder: If these guys for their alleged faults (inc the fat HFC) were worthy of the deaths that they invited on themselves (in LCM's opinion), what is LCM, who has deliberately deceived and wilfully hurt so very many - thousands - worthy of? He should be mighty thankful he is not getting his just desserts (according ot his own warped thinking). Point 2 to ponder: who is 2x2 with him??? (Any volunters? Thank God for His grace, that we don't get what we are worthy of. And sometimes bad things, even death, happen even to those who are just living life normally. What is the grace that God is able to make abound towards us for, anyway? Just these situations, no?

As much as anything, isn't freewill about the attitude (especially the attitude of our heart) we choose to take? Not necessarily our actions, which may well be governed by external forces. JC had the choice in the garden whether to follow his own will and run away, far away, from the people he knew were coming to kill him; or whether to stay and follow God's plan. He stayed and went through with what had been prepared since the fall of man. Was that "free will" or "predestination"? If he can exercise free will at such a time, we must also have that choice available to ourselves. TWI's problem is that it usurped the position of God, suborned His people and then corrupted the concepts of free will and loving submission.