Twinky

Listening to this podcast, I was struck by what John has to say about prayer, coupled with TWI arrogance in expecting God to "deliver" (or just expecting the delivery without even considering the deliverer!). Were we taught to pray? Really? Remember, in an early session of PFAL we were taught that "the Lord’s prayer" isn’t something that we can pray. It’s not relevant to us. Although one aspect of that prayer was pointed out as having been already provided (like we don’t need our daily food any more, ha) in fact, subtly throughout the class and in subsequent teachings, the whole prayer and the structure of the prayer were dismissed. What about recognizing our unique personal relationship with him, as a loved child? What about recognizing the holiness of God? What about recognizing his might, power, kingdom, authority? What about recognizing that it’s his will that is to be done? What about recognizing his forgiveness and grace? What about recognizing what he truly has done for us and will do for us - his deliverance? What about recognizing his gloriousness? We were taught (by example) to "thank God for having already provided for us," and to simply to appropriate it. By "believing." But not by recognizing our relationship with him as our Daddy, his loving kindness, his grace. We were taught to behave like spoiled three year olds, kids at the check-out demanding candy. It’s good to recognize what God has done for us, and to claim what we have been given. (The weakness of some churchy folk of thinking illness is sent by God to test them drives me crazy!) But within TWI, I wonder how many were genuinely thankful and how many simply learned to "thank God" simply as a matter of rote as they presented a list of demands? In the same way, we finished our prayers, "in the name of Jesus Christ" almost as some magic formula, rather like we were hiding behind our big brother, not standing in the confidence of what he has made available for us. Words - not wholeheartedness. Where were we taught the *humility* of prayer in the manner that Jesus taught his disciples when they asked how they should pray?

English Breakfast tea, of course! Common sorts available in the UK are PG Tips and Typhoo and they come in bulk packs of 240 bags and are cheap. Soooo--- ----do join me in a cuppa!

You're right on that. I recall the WoWs who witnessed to me were young and enthusiastic - but didn't really know anything about life and real practical help in dealing with problems (including "gray areas" which so much of life is!). One WoW went into the Corps but he was slightly older by a few years and he wasn't long there. I wonder if so many would have been so keen to sign up if it had meant going to a seminary for four years and actually training for priesthood/ministerial/pastoral responsibility in a more usual setting? But what would the TCs (or whoever) have to say about such young and enthusiastic kids? Was it any different for FC applicants? Were their children also subject to references or otherwise vetted for suitability?

INGREDIENTS 1 (12 ounce) package pork sausage links 2 eggs 1 cup all-purpose flour 1/2 cup water 1/2 cup milk DIRECTIONS 1. Preheat oven to 400 degrees F (200 degrees C). 2. Brown sausage links in a large skillet; drain and place sausage in a 9x13 inch baking dish. 3. In a small bowl beat eggs; add flour, water and milk and beat all together . Let sit 5 minutes. 4. Pour mixture over sausage and bake in preheated oven for 25 to 30 minutes, or until top is browned and crusty. 5. Serve immediately, before batter collapses. COMMENT Batter can be made the day before. Best left to stand as long as possible. Beat batter thoroughly to incorporate lots of air. The cooked batter mixture will rise and the sausages will remain in the bottom of the pan but not covered (unless you made too much batter!) Nice with mashed potatoes and thick gravy and a green veg (not mushy peas).

Some after the BBQ asked about it. It really isn't complicated, just a question of keeping everything as hot as possible.

You leave Twinkies out of the peanut butter, you hear?

This is so simple but is a lost art in the US: 1. Bring fresh cold water to a rolling boil. Reasons: (i) Fresh water has more oxygen, makes the tea taste a little better (but if you live in a heavily chlorinated area, you might want to use water that has stood for a while, or use bottled/filtered water) (ii) Must be a rolling boil (not just hot, or simmering) to extract all the flavor from the tea 2. Meanwhile, ideally warm a dry tea pot (especially if using a pottery tea pot). Reasons: (i) Tea pot means that there is plenty of space for the tea to brew/infuse so that none of the flavors are lost (ii) Dry tea pot will mean that it is boiling water that hits the tea leaf, not cold water, extracts more flavor (iii) Warmed tea pot will mean that tea remains hotter longer and the heat of the boiling water isn’t "lost" into the tea pot (iv) If you are using leaf tea (ie not bag), the tea leaves will float if you don’t use boiling water. 3. Add one teaspoon leaf tea per person + 1 teaspoon "for the pot". Alternatively, use one tea bag per person but check the strength of the tea bags - you may need another one. Reasons: will ensure a sufficiently strong brew 4. Take the pot to the kettle, not the kettle to the pot Reason: (i) Keeps the water at max temperature so that it is boiling when it hits the leaf. (ii) Safety! 5. Cover the pot with tea pot lid and leave to infuse for 4-5 minutes. Cover the tea pot while you wait. Stir the pot before you pour the first cup. Tea is not ready after 30 seconds Reasons: (i) will draw all the flavors from the tea, not just the top note (ii) Covering pot will ensure tea is hot when you drink it (iii) Stirring will distribute the infusion (the tea sinks to the bottom of the water) Serve: With milk. Do not use cream or half-and-half as these will dull the flavors With a slice of lemon (maybe make the tea a little weaker if you do this) Sugar/sweetener as liked. Comments: If you use a tea pot, you don’t get an insightly ring in the tea cup If you must use a cup or mug, make sure it is big enough that the tea can infuse sufficiently without getting too strong. When you use a different brand of tea, you may find that you need a different amount in the pot/cup Please don't make a cup of tea by putting hot water in a cup, and giving it to someone together with a tea bag so that they can make their own...

From the Face Meltings thread: When I applied to join the WC, I had to supply two references from current standing Corps. I assumed this was to check that applicants attended twig regularly, supported the ministry (ABS'd) and acted in an appropriately Christian manner; also that they had a few smarts (minimum educational level) and some leadership potential. Can't remember exactly what was on the form/reference that had to be completed. Anyone out there who gave a "bad" reference that someone was/was likely to become, an "unfit leader" or should not be accepted for this sort of reason? And was the applicant then accepted for the WC? What other feedback do you have about the "selection" process? (I do know that some were not accepted for lack of sufficient education but that's not my concern on this thread.)

Washn'wear, welcome to the Cafe. Glad you are interested in our new regional speciality dish. You can have it with Brussels sprouts, broccoli or cabbage, but not with mushy peas.

I'm still looking for a Twinky

The roux is just fat of some (any) sort and flour, which are blended together and cooked. That's a base for thinning with some sort of liquid, milk or water or broth. In gravy, it is the fat (dripping) from the meat mixed with flour to thicken, and then thinned out with water, usually the water in which veges have been cooked, to retain any water-soluble vitamins that have leached into the water. Sausages don't usually make a lot of fat so to make gravy traditionally extra fat will need to be added. For roast meats, the fat will also include some of the other juices from the meat. It's really flavorsome. Gravy is often nowadays made more quickly with gravy browning which is a mixture of seasonings, sometimes with thickeners, and with caramel to color the resulting liquid brown. Penguin, you can make it with margarine but the flavor might not be very good. Soy milk would work - again, check the flavor. You could experiment using olive or other vege oil instead of margarine.

Which part don't you like, CoolChef? BTW the sausages are in links and they are generally about 1" in diameter and about 5" long. They come in many different flavors.

Man...it's time you guys got some real sausages (links), fried 'em up with some onions, and made a nice thick gravy (brown, and made with water) to pour over the whole sausages. Accompany this with some boiled and mashed some potatoes and pour the gravy over the sausages and the mashed potato. Yum yum. Serve with Brussels sprouts or some kind of green vegetable. Lovely evening meal. :) If you must use the milk sauce, grate cheese into it and dump it on top of some cauliflower. The "biscuits" are quite nice as scones for afternoon tea. Put some sultanas into the mix before baking and serve with butter and perhaps jam (jelly).

Not exactly a friend (I hardly knew him) but someone who did know him well has asked me if I know what has become of him because he was very helpful and supportive to her a few years ago in a very difficult situation. Is he still with TWI or has he departed to a splinter group or just departed completely from TWI and look-alikes? I believe he was married to Marcia; are they still married?

When I was getting my "medical" done, there's the one about smear tests. The doctor read this and clearly thought it was a weird request and he didn't bother to do the test, just asked me generally if I had cause for concern about this and the other questions and then signed off. This sort of information is usually disclosed on a doctor to doctor basis and not made available to non-doctors and I was concerned about who might see it, not that I had or have now any health issues of any kind. For myself, I thought the questions/tests were far too personal and intrusive. But as an international, I thought these were perhaps standard sort of questions for US applicants to colleges (after all, aren't blood tests necessary before a couple gets married?). I didn't particularly review what tests they were or notice they were for STDs. I guess now they might demand to know your HIV status. To see if you are a homo/homo sympathizer, not so they could pray for healing for you. This is not quite a "twisted scripture." But can somebody please tell me the scripture ref where it says that JC demanded health records of his disciples when he called them? Or did he know they were okay by some special revelation?

Toad in the hole is sausages (English sausages, that is) in batter and baked in the oven. Delicious!

No, Potato, this was in the UK - in the mid-80s...

I do think there was a statement in one of the classes, CF&S probably but it might have been PFAL (?), that a husband and wife are two people with two heads and two tongues and they should discuss things together. I think he also said that a husband should listen to a wife's opinion. Of course, the practise was quite different. But I remember the WOW who witnessed to me (male) and I were walking in the town one day and he said to me that God would be able to tell a husband if a wife's purse was undone so that he could tell her and she could close the purse and not lose things or have things stolen. My question then was, "Why couldn't God just tell the woman herself?" and I got some such answer as "The man is responsible for the woman." I think he might have made some reference to Adam and Eve. He was an AC grad, and at most at that stage I would have taken PFAL but perhaps not even that. So the seeds of this bullying behavior were already there from early indoctrination. It just got far worse in the Corps.

My Corps got to sit at the Master's feet. It was at those Sunday morning fellowships in the BRC. People came in off staff and from out of town and filled the little place. There were chairs along the walls but the in rez Corps were expected to sit on the carpet and it was forbidden to sit on the chairs. So lots of people acquired a sort of little legless chair. just a backrest really, which made sitting at the master's feet a little easier. But we were still on the floor in the middle. Well anyway where else should a doormat be, except on the floor?

Wives (and females generally) were expected to obey (submit to) their husbands (or other male leadership). Some might remember DM's "The Joy of Followship" extolling what a pleasure it is to serve one's husband (fat lot of good that did her). We were taught this: Eph 5:22 Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord. 23 For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body. 24 Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing. (And wives were not just subject to their own husbands, but to the "coordinators" and leadership who told the husband what to do and interfered with so many marriages and condoned so much violence and abuse.) (Hang on a minute while they give the scriptures another "twist".) But this bit was never taught, not in any real practical sense: Eph 5:25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it; 26 That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word, 27 That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish. 28 So ought men to love their wives as their own bodies. He that loveth his wife loveth himself. 29 For no man ever yet hated his own flesh; but nourisheth and cherisheth it, even as the Lord the church: Nourish and cherish? By beating up your wife? How many of these abusers beat themselves up? Twisted scriptures? Wrung to death, more like. Colossians 3:18-19 18 Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as it is fit in the Lord. 19 Husbands, love your wives, and be not bitter against them. But then, a husband could hardly model himself on the sacrifice made by JC since we were basically taught to ignore JC and not read the gospels and consider the magnificent sacrifice that he did make for the Church. Was JC bitter against the church in spite of all the disobedience and rejection? Come on guys, you know the answer!

Or even the second weekend in November. So don't turn up too early...or the Halloween critter under the bed will get you.

Thanks, Paw, for pointing me at the Podcasts. When I emerged into the "real world" I found and sometimes still find it quite difficult to keep up in my mind with what someone's saying. I have now resumed my professional career but instead of analyzing what clients are telling me and looking for what they are NOT telling me, I just let it all in and take every word as truth - instead of asking the "further question" to get that bit of information they DIDN'T tell you, that puts a different complexion on what they've just told you. I can only put that down to never getting proper answers to questions in TWI. If you get bawled out enough for asking questions or an environment is encouraged where you are told what to do and "you wlll see the benefits/blessings/get the understanding later," you just learn to shut off that part that still wants and needs answers NOW. But worse than shutting off one's professional and personal critical abilities, we were trained to shut off God's voice as much as they could train us to do that. Huh (snort)

Hey y'all. It was so good to meet up with you! As Eyes says, a convention of exTWI. Well it wasn't, it was the Grease Spot Cafe live and in persons (and some of you just thought the Cafe was virtual on the internet only, huh?). Many thanks, ex10 and hubby for being wonderful generous hosts and making such a great time "available" to everyone. Winking belts and all.

My best girlfriend of many years (pre TWI) has recently completed training to become a minister in the Methodist church. She has studied quite a lot of topics, they discuss different interpretations of scripture, they considered different ways various situations might be handled, they visited places of worship of other religions (boy, did she have something to say about the mosque they visited), they had to write essays and give considered opinions, they learned how to do funerals and visited funeral parlors (and behind the scenes there) (which was very good because the day before she officially started as a minister, a parishoner died so her first task was his funeral!), they had lengthy but helpful counselling sessions to be sure that they knew what they wanted to do and where they felt their calling lay. They had no training in Greek, Hebrew or whatever else. No "hands-on practical application of The Word" by working four hours a day. She trained through a training college with a good reputation which was used by Methodist and Anglican trainees and I believe there were a couple of people from other denominations as well. Sounds to me like they were all carefully and thoroughly introduced to topics, aspects of life as a minister, the ways they could help their congregations... At the time she started that my head was still - in TWI-land. I am ashamed to say that I thought her training was inappropriate and poor and not practical. It was nothing like the WC and sounded too wishy-washy to be true. What, no face meltings? No interminable meetings? No confrontation at all, just these gentle heart to heart talks (which she dreaded!)? No, just time to think about God and his word, to study carefully and to be lovingly guided, to be exposed to different ways of thinking, and to be allowed to choose a path that fitted with their own desires and family commitments. She was so helpful to me in "just being there" and being non-confrontational. She is naturally kind and compassionate. I didn't have any contact for years in TWI daze but afterwards it was as if there had never been a break. She is so compassionate as to say that she is really sorry that it didn't work out for me with TWI, even though she didn't like the organization, but because she knew it had been significant for me. (This is one wise woman who went to a PFAL presentation and never went back.) Twisted scriptures? Twisted training? Indoctrination, or teaching to think Godly? I look at what she underwent and what I underwent. We both learned. One of us however has a considerable amount to unlearn. Now, I can be helpful to her in dealing with some things she has encountered because I've been there. And also I really did study to learn whilst in rez (actually what I learned and practiced got me kicked out not too long after). I am very thankful for her life. I wish her well in her (Trinitarian) ministry. God bless her and her family. She has a true calling and is a real pastor to God's kids.

Hey, leave Twinky out of the microwave!!! That goes for Twinkle too. She don't want to be in the microwave either. And Tom Strange, you especially stay away from twinkies and microwaves (graaowww!)