Twinky

Okay, Oldies, let's start with you. Stop being anonymous, post your own photo, and give your real name. You're an anonymous finger pointer at plenty of other people on these boards.

The Portugese police have now finally decided not to do anything re the parents (having made them "official suspects") and have now resumed their regular (?) line of enquiry and are rattling the "usual suspects", ie, the local pedophiles and other ne'er do wells. Also the police evidence upon which they made the parents official suspects has been found faulty. I don't believe the parents are anything other than totally distraught parents doing their best to recover their lost daughter. They published a photo of her - she has an unusual eye with a line in it, very distinctive. That would be helpful if she had wandered off and got lost; but it might also have signed her death warrant - if she were still alive. The parents are getting a lot of church and community support, both in Portugal and in the UK.

He wants to be the "surprise guest" and will come dressed as Santa Claus.

In some ways this thread is more horrific than those relating sexual abuse. In those, we became aware of the predatory behavior of certain "leaders." It was obvious and premeditated. Conscious behavior. In this thread, we learn of the casual cruelty towards and disregard for believers at all levels, outside of sexual abuse. Complete lack of compassion or normal "human" responses. Jesus wept when somebody died: he knew the hurt in people's hearts. But TWI airily dismisses such with "Oh, she died" and next subject please? As for people with illnesses, tumors, where is the praying for the healing? Did EB ever pray for Liz's head, eyesight, or was that too demeaning a task? Where was his "believing"? This wicked behavior was often encouraged and endured in Corps Nights where somebody has had a terrible thing happen to them they got publicly reamed, and the WC was told in the CN "teaching" that we weren't to feel sorry for them or contact them to offer condolences (on pain of being DFAC'd). The offending (ha ha) persons were possessos, etc, etc. Oh yeah right. Bowels of mercies? Full of sh1t, more like. Romans 1 (NIV) 21 For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. 28 Furthermore, since they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, he gave them over to a depraved mind, to do what ought not to be done. 29 They have become filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, greed and depravity. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit and malice. They are gossips, 30 slanderers, God-haters, insolent, arrogant and boastful; they invent ways of doing evil; they disobey their parents; 31 they are senseless, faithless, heartless, ruthless. I need a long walk in the fresh air.

Maybe "on the deck" doesn't mean the same to you as it does to me. You're gonna need that hot tub for more than bathing in if you do mean "on the deck". Will scare those dust bunnies just a bit.

Lots of threads here about "believing" and misuse of the word. Shifra's tie-in on this thread with tithing is interesting. I still see/hear it taught... "I put in (into the horn of plenty) $x and the next day yyy sent me a check for $xxxx;" or "I put in $x and the next day got a new job." Worse: "I hadn't got much money so I put in $x and believed God to give money back to me." That sounds like a CONTRACT at best: I give you $10 but you have to give me $100 back. That's not believing. But some of those same fold don't see it as a contract the other way: God gives you $100 therefore you must give $10 back. Either way, it's straight-out contract law. Not quite the attitude of gratitude/thankfulness with which tithing (or any thing) should be given. But really so much of this now smacks of BRIBERY. As if a man could bribe God. God LOVES to bless us and give us the desires of our hearts. He does know what our needs are, financial and otherwise. (edited cos it didn't read quite right in the contract bit)

Call 'em what you like. They'll only come if they want to. :D

Oh, we're back to that "believing to receive" thread again! Sorry, it clearly jogged some horrible memories. As did that reference to "horn of plenty". Seeing those things anywhere now really makes me queasy. But this makes me thinK: as a symbol maybe we had it back to front. We put in at the big end and (the benefit) comes out the small end... Like so much Way stuff - a good analogy totally turned to face the opposite direction.

Well dunno about you lot but I'd think it was a lot more balanced if it had books and music by other than VPW and LCM. Even stuff done by other banned ex TWI (Walter Cummins, for example). And ex-TWI songs like say Acts 29...or anybody. Obviously still plugging LCM's book - so he's obviously not a "possesso" and his work not banned or burned as so many other people's who have fallen out of favour with TWI. Make of that what you will. That's without promoting any decent non-Way stuff. Sad. Can't somebody post a link to GSC on their board?

Frumpy is hardly the word. Men and women. They could dress better from the local charity shop. They (well, the women) are hardly this: PS 45:13 All glorious is the princess within her chamber; her gown is interwoven with gold. or this: Prov 31:22 She ... is clothed in fine linen and purple What a sad "advert" for God's abundance.

Two great beating up weapons: 1. You lack spiritual understanding 2. You are not meek to the Word. Probably many of those who "lacked spiritual understanding" were a sight further on in understanding and meekness to what the Word really says, than those doing the beating up. The bullies were/are all puffed-up with their understanding of the WORDS of the Word, not the meaning of the words. Too busy admiring the cloth to consider that it should have been turned into clothing to be worn.

Still thinking about this, Ex10 invited me. Sounded so much fun last year. :) An ink pin (pen)? As opposed to a what? A writing in blood pen? (Always thought that was a funny expression. Maybe Texans should learn to say "pen". Oops, there goes my invitation...)

Sure they do! Can you imagine if even half the Cafe members turned up en masse to seek forgiveness? Can you imagine Forgiving Father Rosie welcoming us with open arms? Any of 'em?

Hello Tom, are you joining us now? I think most of the Europeans are getting on with their lives. Who out there knows some non-Brits? I wonder if there are any E Corps out there?

Bless you my son ... consider yourself absolved. You saved a lotta heartache there. Nothing to feel guilty about then or now. Even though you felt it so.

..or ABused ! (It's the light shined by posts like those of Dot and other women who have been abused, that has exposed the wickedness of others and enabled healing to take place. Got the dirt out of the wound, so to speak.)

Some startling news: I was informed at lunchtime today that there are still apostles, prophets, etc, walking this earth today. This I agreed with. I was astonished to learn that there are in fact 12 apostles, only 12. As for prophets… Yes, I was accosted by two young men of about mid 20s bearing neatly engraved name badges announcing themselves as Elders of the Church of JC of Latter Day Saints. One did most of the speaking and the other nodded in assent. Me: “Only 12 apostles? That’s not many for the whole world.” Them: “Yes, that’s how many apostles Jesus had when he was on Earth, and not much has changed since then.” Me: “Only that JC was murdered, and now does not live on earth as he did then but is alive in the heavenlies. He wants everyone to know all over the world, not just a select few in the middle east." Them: “It’s his church and that’s the way he wants it.” Me: “So where are these apostles?” Them: “In our church.” Me: “What about other churches – Methodist, Baptists, Catholics, Anglicans, to name but a few?” Them: “This is the only true church. All those are just started by men, of their own authority, not with the authority of Jesus Christ. That’s why there are no apostles in those groups.” Me: “Don’t you believe God works in other churches? Don’t you think he wants them to know too? Why would there not be apostles to those churches too?” Them: “This is the true church. This is what JC set up. This is what he wants.” Me: “And what’s this about prophets?” Them: “There is only one prophet alive today. His name is xxx. He is in our church. But the head of our church is JC.” Me: “Do you not think that JC cares about other people, in other churches?” Them: “This is the true church. This is what JC set up. This is what he wants.” Me: “If you cut yourself off from other Christians, you are simply a cult and putting God in a box and putting JC in a box. Do you think JC wants that?” Them: “We are not a cult, we are a church.” Me: “If you cut yourself off from the rest of the Body of Christ, you are making yourselves a cult.” Them: “We are not a cult, we are a church.” I asked them about speaking in tongues. Did they believe this existed? If so, what was it for? Them: “So that if you can’t speak another language very well, the Holy Ghost can give you better ability to speak to people in another country. Also, if you only know a few words in another language, it can make you fluent in that other language if you need to speak to somebody.” Me: “What about prayer and praise to God?” Them: (nervous smile) “Yes, so that you can speak to other people.” And this: Them: “Do you think the church is built on the Bible?” Me: “What sort of answer do you expect me to give?” Them: “We don’t just read the Bible. We have other books too that we study. Our church is built according to those.” This only lasted for five minutes or so. I left feeling sad and deeply sorry for these young men. They do not understand the wedge they are building in their own lives; have no idea of the hurt that lies in wait. I thought of all the WoWs over the years, all the WC, the Lightbearers, and their cult-head attitudes. Is this what we sounded like? We couldn’t see it then; these young men cannot see it now. They are into a MOGdom of their own and holding fast not to the Head of the Church but to their prophet as his spokesman and the 12 apostles in whatever their role is. No doubt the young men have a desire for God and the lord Jesus Christ; I pray that they will sort out the truth from the error before they are themselves sorted out and hurt. (For the avoidance of doubt: I comment not on the beliefs or doctrine of this organization; just on the blinkers on these young men’s hearts.)

Most of us here have been wounded, often very deeply, by TWI. The isolating way we were dealt with usually meant it does take years to get over it since there may be no supporting network. Lk 7:41 There was a certain creditor which had two debtors: the one owed five hundred pence, and the other fifty. 42 And when they had nothing to pay, he frankly forgave them both. Tell me therefore, which of them will love him most? 43 Simon answered and said, I suppose that he, to whom he forgave most. And he said unto him, Thou hast rightly judged. Does that mean you need to have big debts forgiven, to be able to forgive? Does it mean you have to have had big hurts, to be able to forgive? You can forgive - you just have a greater and deeper understanding of what it means. Doesn't mean the smaller debtor isn't grateful or doesn't understand. Simon above lived in a very senses-oriented way. BNIS, are you suggesting forgiveness from people not deeply hurt is only "senses" forgiveness, a matter of expediency but not from the heart? Or is it that "Their version of forgiveness" might relate to how far the victims have so far managed to deal with their wounds? You can get over it: but doesn't mean that you want to spend any more time in contact with those who hurt you, if they have not shown that they repent of their behavior. It doesn't mean where appropriate that you shouldn't warn others or expose the abuse. Biblically there are many exhortations to beware of certain people who have caused harm.

Oh yes I remember that stuff. The expression now comes to mind, "straining at gnats" or "nit picking". (Perhaps some of the purported difficulties could have been avoided by using expressions like "confidence" instead of "believing". We could even have referred to different versions of the Bible by way of comparison, to see how these "usages" were translated elsewhere. But no, we have to engineer difficulties so that we can get puffed up in our special knowledge of the Word.) Not sure where any of these fit with: • "Believing to see Johnny Jumpup at fellowship/work/the park tomorrow” • “Believing for Bill to pass the exam” • “Believing that Maggie will one day come to the Lord” but the nearest definition is the first (senses based). Still not convinced it's other than sloppy use of language. Believing verging on plain wishful thinking...

Five categories of believing? Don't remember this one, did I forget it or was it never beaten into me? Remind me, someone. And is one of them "believing to override someone else's free will"?

Funny, if one is inclined to use certain other expressions. But sometimes you can stop people's mouths by smiling very sweetly and saying, "God bless you!" in a kind manner. Makes the curser think a bit about what they said. Oh, and to return to the subject of this thread, "OMG" and "Jesus/Jesus Christ/Christ" and permutations thereof tick me off too. Odd, isn't it, how the most powerful Name above all names has become the most debased, in modern life.

Forgiveness is as much for oneself as for another. Like AD's quote about non-forgiveness being a poison. It is when we start to forgive that we get healed. Lack of forgiveness is an open sore in one's own heart. We are to bless those who persecute us. Pray for them. Read how Job prayed for his persecutors. To truly pray for someone you cannot hold unforgiveness against them; you have to let it go. Refusing to forgive someone because they haven't shown they are repentant or haven't apologized to you is Wayspeak. That's what LCM taught, as an excuse for getting people to grovel to him (him!)when he had M&A'd them, humiliated them and slandered them vilely. "Be ye kind to one another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you." Where does this say, only if they seek forgiveness first?

(Straight from the randi site) 'Sright, didn't you guys know this? ;) And doesn't this thread belong in Just Plain Silly?

New Zealand beer ad:

Well I don't ever think of myself as a cat owner, just as a cat carer. I am permitted to share her bed (a large comfortable double) as she only requires a small bit of one corner at the foot. However she comes and goes at will. She comes in every night, but at times to suit herself and generally in the wee hours. She is considerate and does not wake me. I am permitted to share the couch as long as it isn't her seat. If I sit in the wrong seat she will sit on top of me and also hasten to put herself in the same place should I vacate it for any reason. I am required to serve particular meals. If she doesn't get what she fancies, she goes to another restaurant and is quite shameless about this. If my service is unacceptably poor, I am given a smack or a scratch. However, I am occasionally given a small reward. Nonetheless - I do love this cat. :) :) :)