Twinky

Well, Dooj, I moved overseas and obviously couldn't take very much with me. There was a real sweet twig there and everybody in it gave me something - spare sweaters, footwear, other things; also I stayed with the TC / CC who generously supported me until I started to get some money in (=got paid). They really lived the sharing lifestyle, and often believers would pop round with something surplus or they'd seen a bargain in the shops and bought an extra wotsit because it might help someone in the twig. I saw others' physical needs being met too, with things or with cash. That lifestyle encouraged me to go into the WC. Meanwhile control was being tightened up and a few years later when I came out, it was all "gimme gimme gimme" from HQ. The CC had got hard and "demanded" respect and "stand up when I enter the room" instead of accepting the huge respect that had been offered lovingly. HappyHeart: Welcome to the Cafe. There's a trash can for TWI junk by the door whenever you feel like using it.

Danny I would be interested in more details of what you said but it doesn't belong on this thread. Could you either PM me or start a new thread concerning what happened?

Bread pudding is a bit different from Spotted Dog. The latter is a sort of sponge pudding with sultanas in it and properly is a steamed pudding though perhaps it could be baked. Bread pudding is a way of stretching out virtually nothing and making something - using up stale bread - you trim off the crusts, butter it usually on both sides, put it in a bowl with some nutmeg, sultanas, and maybe a little sugar, perhaps if you have any, and then soak it in an egg beaten in milk and bake it for 30-40 mins. It was a wartime (perhaps pre-wartime) recipe for using up odds and ends, if there were any such. Butter, sugar and sultanas were heavily rationed in wartime so there would be little spare and margarine would probably have been used. Nowadays it's a fashionable pudding but has become rather luxurious with the addition of white or brown chocolate, other fruits, lemon, cream, etc.

What a lot about handling people there is to be learned from handling animals. You can beat them into doing what you want, or you can be a "Horse Whisperer" and gentle them into doing what you want. In fact, I learned something of that at Gunny for Family Camps! There is much to be learned from other cultures, such as care of elderly relatives, distribution of responsibilities within the family, sharing of common moneys. A lot of poorer countries or people living in remote areas in wealthier countries, can only get by with this sort of culture. It seriously concerned me in rez that some tremendously skilled people were on staff doing quite menial tasks when surely their abilities could have been used in more worthwhile manner. Gosh, can you imagine instead of the bicycle story, the riding of a horse had been chosen? Then we would be into riding astride or, for women, sidesaddle. And as to the horse having a mind of its own ... actually that would have been a better analogy altogether. Because if it's supposed to be a spiritual analogy, we would have the rider (holy spirit) directing the horse (the five senses) to be obedient to what was really required. Because it would be the goodness of God cajoling the animal to repentance, to a more worthy endeavor, to bring its body into subjection, to ... whatever you like. But then you might have to be kind to people or have some real "people skills". You might need compassion and to see people as individual parts of the Body of Christ with individual needs, and not interchangeable parts of a (money-making) machine.

Welcome back, Dooj.

Paw and the mods: There really are some good threads but some of those get so soon derailed and then everyone loses interest. Can the irrelevant bits be dragged off to the Soap Opera or to some place called "Boxing Ring" so that just the relevant stuff or at least the not so argumentative stuff remains? It helps sometimes to draft a post, leave it for a few minutes, come back and re-read it. Perhaps if posters used the Smileys and other kinds of punctuation a bit more, it would help replace the non-verbal signals that would accompany a spoken comment. (At work I use a dictaphone and of course give emphasis when I dictate. When the typed-up letter comes back for signature, because there is no emphasis it can read quite oddly or give a wrong impression. And I know what I said! I don't add Smileys, but I do change the wording.) (Okay, sometimes I can't type properly either)

Hello birthday boy. Many happy returns. Have a purrfectly delightful day! Twinx

Sleep deprived - yeah. Too exhausted to dream. This always seemed suspect and I truly don't believe it now. There are dreams, and there are visions, and God can work within both to communicate. Also I don't believe that God can't communicate directly with unbelievers, what a load of nonsense. He most certainly can, just that perhaps he has another way that he can with believers. There are several records in the OT about unbelievers having dreams/visions. (Uh, Pharaoh's dreams as interpreted by Joseph, most famously?) Why do we pray for certain objectives or outcomes if we don't think God can work in a situation? Can he not work with the unbelievers involved in work/school/health situations? Why pray for governments (secular) (and the Bible explicitly tells us to do that) where possibly there are few believers, if we don't expect God to be able to do something? Has God changed that he cannot communicate with unbelievers in our time? Has God changed that he cannot if he wishes communicate with believers in our time by dreams or whatever method He chooses?

Amen sister. I find the church I go to is gentle but really practical about what is taught. Exhortation to rise up is simply that - loving encouragement. I didn't know "fear" till I got in TWI. I suffered a little from low self-esteem, but boy, did they tip that into major self-condemnation, which I wrestled with all the time in rez.

Great posts, all. Hey, I remember running into a car when I was about 10 - it was right outside somebody's house and the owner came rushing out of his house to inspect his car - and then inspect me - fortunately no damage to either. Never mind handlebars, I must have had my head on the wrong way to run into something stationary. I forgot about the story-cyclist running into the telegraph pole - seems like he must have had his head on the wrong way also. THW - yes, I used to job share, covered as a floater within a firm if someone was off sick or if someone had too much work - I was forever getting roasted just because I put something back *slightly* out of position. How picky can people get? Belle - exactly. Not like we're all built the same externally or internally. Yes, we are all going to the same place but we don't all start off from the same place. The poverty stricken and the rich don't have exactly the same journey, and the physically disabled and the wellbodied have different issues to deal with. The African, the Indian, the Chinaman, the Australian Aborigine, the Columbian peasant, the Frenchman, the Brit and the Yank all have their different cultural biases, good things and bad, and instead of saying "YOU WILL DO IT THIS WAY" (as TWI tended to do, regardless of cultural differences), how much better would it have been to consider the good points in other cultures and what Biblical principles they illustrated. Waysider - too much at this hour in the day! (edited cos I could only see the last 10 posts and not others I wanted to reply to)

As I was riding my bicycle home today I was struck by the PFAL example of the man with the crooked handlebars – and them being straightened out – and then he couldn’t ride his bike. You know, maybe he had crooked handlebars for a reason. Maybe one arm was a little longer than another. Maybe he had a withered hand that made gripping the handlebars more difficult one side. Maybe the man had made some expeditious arrangement to suit his personal needs, instead of getting some extension or special feature welded to the handlebars. It struck me as I cycled along that this example was just another example from TWI’s “one size fits all” without regard to anyone’s special needs, physical, mental, emotional, or otherwise. What matters is not whether the handlebars were crooked but whether the front wheel is going in the desired direction. In other words, the result – not the minutiae of how it was done.

That has to be defined a bit better. TWI was into hugs and kisses. What about Howard's alleged French kisses, is that nothing (because not intercourse) or something (because unwelcome)? What about a hug that goes on just a little too long... or almost in the "wrong place" as a sort of try-on, but not quite enough to slap someone's face? What if you were a "willing victim" at the time and only now come to see it as abuse ... because barriers had been broken down. What level is "leadership" - ordained? Not yet ordained but became so later? WC? A non-WC TC? (=for an answer to the poll) (Sorry, folks, I have some hang-ups in this area.) Be assured: it wasn't just in the USA. The famous "international outreach" reached out in the sexual area also. Excuse me now while I go and scream. (okay I screamed and then came back to edit a typo. Now I'm going to get a shower, I feel filthy)

I heard Dooj has suffered some identity theft and is keeping a low profile till things are sorted out. It has caused her significant embarrassment. If anyone has suffered from personal information being released by the imposter, please don't hold it against the real Dooj.

"New Year's resolutions are a recipe for failure!" Thus quoth the great LCM. Well, perhaps if he had made a few NY resolutions, he and the remains of TWI would not have fallen into such disaster. And taken many good people with them. Thanks for starting this topic. When the new year dawned, I found myself thinking this stupid phrase and avoiding action; and this topic has helped me address and clear out another aspect of Waybrain. It's always a good time to take time to review and consider what can be done better in the future. The few days holiday many people get at around this time of year gives perhaps a little more time with spouses and other loved ones to talk things over together and set new goals, desires, for the forthcoming period. But if you've made up your mind - why wait? Today is the first day of the rest of your life, may as well get the benefits for the longest period! Why not - "new month resolutions" or "new week resolutions"? Or even, "new day resolutions"? Life consists of lots of failures, some big, some small, of goals that were not achieved. God did not call us to be perfect. He expects us to "fail" in various ways (isn't that why he sent JC?). He expects us to be faithful and to pick ourselves up when we fail (that's why forgiveness is readily available). And ideally not to fail so badly next time. Failure in a way means achievement. If we did not fail, we would never be seeking to achieve. Go ahead. Set some goals/NY resolutions, fall over a few times, but keep moving. New Year resolutions are a recipe for progress. Lamentations 3:21-36 21 Yet this I call to mind and therefore I have hope: 22 Because of the Lord's great love we are not consumed, for his compassions never fail. 23 They are new every morning; great is your faithfulness.

Try this, expand your vocabulary, and donate some rice to the needy: http://www.freerice.com/index.php It goes on for a long time so have fun. Hint: You wouldn't believe how many words there are for "lying" or "slander".

Suda, with that outstanding menu, I hope you are not just readying your appetite but have readied your clothes as well and got in a few pairs of pants a size or two larger. Sounds absolutely wonderful . Right, now I'm off to find some decent veges.

I never knew anything about "spotted dick". We called it "spotted dog" in our household. Could have had something to do with my father's name being "Dick". Never worked out if the name of the pudding was a local or a family adaptation. Anyway, whatever you call it - it's nice to eat. And George: at least the English COOK which is more than can be said for some American dishes which are just a raid on the supermarket for a prepack, turn on the microwave or cooker, and that's your meal. Explicitly excluded from above comment: Dooj and the Texans. (Just having fun here, no offence)

It is better to receive than to give.

Happy Christmas all. Might not see you over the holiday period. Have a great time whatever you do. The two-drink limit does not apply. Ho ho ho.

Drive a taxi! Well, you can add a bit of Christmas cheer to the taxi with a bit of tinsel round the seats or mirror (nothing that can be used to cause harm!). How about a big box or tin of chocs and you offer a chocolate or two to each of your customers that evening and the day after (if you're working)? (With a "God bless you!" if you're feeling like it, after all, it's Christmas.) Just for fun! You'd get a range of responses from the highly suspicious to the truly blessed.

Cards on the mantel piece, hanging from every shelf, blu-tacked to the wall, the doors, anything they will stick on. Little tree with a string of little lights (bought for $2 each)and a few cheap spherical baubles also cheap. Give simple gifts - home made chocolates, cookies, other little things. Spend time with people less fortunate (homeless shelter) or the animal rescue shelter as suggested above. Enquire about going on the soup run with the Salvation Army. Perhaps take yourself off to a church for the midnight mass (not necessarily anyhing to eat, not an RC thing) - you don't have to be a "Christian" as you put it. In any event, try to get to a carol service at some local church. Sing and make a joyful noise. Invite your neighbours to drop in for a Christmas drink and cookie or mince pie. Have a nice dinner middle of the day to simply enjoy, and go out for a long walk afterwards with thankfulness in your heart. Drown Bing Crosby (?) and his dream of a "White Christmas".

Have been spending a little time in Judges lately. Was struck last night by Jud.13. Remember the OT is for us to learn from, even if our cultural values are not the same. Manoah and his unnamed wife are childless (v.2). An angel appears to the wife and gives her a message (vv 3-6), which she faithfully repeats word for word to Manoah (vv6-7). He rightly or wrongly prays for the angel to come again “to teach us how to bring up the boy who is to be born.” The angel appears again – to the wife. She rushes off and gets Manoah (vv 9-10). The angel repeats the instruction already given to the wife previously (trusting guy, this Manoah). There’s a sacrifice, the angel disappears, Manoah gets all panicky, and the wife again speaks sensible words (v.24). The angel doesn’t appear again (v.21). Next things we read about are Samson’s exploits as a young man. What’s not there? How Manoah and Mrs Manoah brought up the young Samson: what to feed him; when to bathe/clean him; what training for life he should do; all the thousands of small and large decisions parents make for their children. So who helped them? Must have had a multitude of counsellors – family, friends, associates, people at the synagogue or wherever they went. All these had input into the upbringing of the young and very special Samson. Now think of the life of the young Jesus. The angel appears to Mary to give her the good news of the unexpected pregnancy. The angel also appears to Joseph at various times during the pregnancy and during the life of the young Jesus, to get the family to flee to Egypt and then to return to Israel (Nazareth). No record after they have been told to get back to Nazareth. Again, the child Jesus would have been raised in the nurture and admonition of the Lord by the extended family (and they must have been a great forgiving family, to overcome the serious disgrace of an unmarried daughter being pregnant), friends, and people in the synagogue/temple (perhaps especially Anna and Simeon, if they were still alive and accessible). What don’t we see? The angel appearing to either Joseph or Mary to give specific instruction or daily direction. Doesn’t mean it didn’t happen and maybe it did. I’d tend to think that they had been given the responsibility and it was their job to raise the child and God’s job to see that others helped them, advising and guiding as appropriate, and to warn if something was about to go significantly wrong (as in Herod’s band of murderers about to kill all the toddlers). Also that it was available (oops for that expression) for them to pray and ask for specific guidance if they felt it was needed: but the guidance didn’t mean a special voice or angelic appearance, might just be a wise word from someone they knew anyway, or a recollection of a verse of the Scriptures they already knew. If specific instruction (the voice of God) wasn’t given to the parents of these two very special babes and young men as to every detail of the special babes' lives – do we have a right to expect it to help us in our “normal” decisions (“what clothes should I wear today?” “How many loaves of bread/bags of apples should I buy?”) (Just as an aside – I was also struck by the careful recitation of the angel’s instruction by Mrs Manoah to her husband. CP the TWI emphasis on Eve adding a bit, omitting a bit and changing a bit (therefore all women are to be “blamed” and are untrustworthy). But instead I “blame” Adam, as the instruction is given to him before she was formed, not to her so perhaps he relayed it not quite accurately or fully. But that’s another thread…) Now back to the regularly-scheduled discussion about decision-making and the voice of God.

Clearly all the rest of you don't eat or don't eat anything memorable. Dooj? Surely you eat?

What a thought provoking thread, thanks for starting it T-Bone I like Roy's post near the beginning about the different parts of the body. Also, there are many references (esp in Proverbs etc) about multitude of counsellors. Note that that's *counsellors* (advisers, people to discuss with, sounding boards) not *dictators*. It is part of wisdom to discuss matters with others, especially those more spiritually mature whose judgment can be trusted. Perhaps we should not make significant decisions without reference to other parts of the Body: husbands and wives conferring; parents and children if the children are old enough to have an opinion; maybe work colleagues if a decision impacts on them; as well as ministers or other "church" members. Sometimes there really is that "you know that you know" moment but to expect that all the time and not to bother to use our (God-given) thinking capacity invites an erratic lifestyle and contradictory decisions, and can lead to much hurt. (Thinking processes...the early Christians made a decision to stay in their cities in the face of Saul's known persecution of them. He was on his way to capture, imprison and murder them when he got blinded by the light. Many others in other cities had already been imprisoned/murdered. Did God tell them to go but they didn't listen (unlikely); did they decide to stay; was it simply that they had nowhere to go? Their decision to stay where they were, regardless of the likely consequences, benefits us even now through their often overlooked but magnificent witness that so worked on Saul's/Paul's own thinking process. I don't think you could say it was God's will that they be murdered. Neither can you say that they did *not* do God's will by staying. I believe there must have been a collective decision to stay put, with no ill-will towards those Christian brethren who chose to leave the cities temporarily or permanently.)

Ex10, I am coming to your house for Chrissie dinner. (But don't spoil it with the peas.) George - another time maybe - a long way into the future. Tom -