Twinky

I started a poll on why people left. Think I'll just bring it back up to the top.

From The Writing Machine (see post above) Well maybe the prophecy came true - he is shedding new light on his generation. His writings are dispelling some of the myths and Wierwille-ology and indoctrination. Some of that new light is shed upon those of us who were Wayfers ignorant of the goings-on in the Family Corps. The prophecy just is not quite coming out the way the prophet (??) expected it to. (edited for typo)

WW, you are getting off track. What I asked was, whether TWI paid for leadership-conceived abortions. Seems like they paid for non-leadership abortions as well. (sick sick sick) Now the little end represents what you put in And the big end represents what God blesses you with ...And the blood dripping from the middle represents your abundant sharing at work in the abortion clinic. So if someone conceived by VPW or LCM or the CC or the BC or the LC or the other "spiritual heavies"- whose pocket paid to clean up the evidence?

(((AJern))) It must have been very difficult for you as a child. (It was difficult for adults!) You would have to learn to form proper relationships with people your own age and with the world at large, having yourself a very damaged background. Did you receive any counseling to help you learn "normal" reactions and responses? I'm sorry your marriage did not last. It must have been very difficult for your wife at times, unless she was also a Way-babe raised in the same cultural desert. Do your best with your kids, showing the love (and appropriate discipline) you didn't quite get yourself. The Cafe is a good place for you to vent your frustrations and to re-think your ideas. Your own perspective here is valuable.

I'm absolutely horrified. (((Rascal))) It's the equivalent of say 2 Kgs 6 (people eating their babies). See also Lam 2:20 Did they miss this bit? - Ps 127: 4 As arrows are in the hand of a mighty man; so are children of the youth. 5 Happy is the man that hath his quiver full of them: they shall not be ashamed, but they shall speak with the enemies in the gate. And this one: Gen 1: 27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them. 28 And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth F6 upon the earth. Anyway back to the topic,

Too right sistah! I went Corps because I saw some wonderfully humble and helpful people, out and out committed, really striving to help. They had quality in their lives. Nobody, when I was considering Corps, told me it was to "toughen me up." They said it was difficult or hard work, but you expect that of any training course (my degree and subsequent professional training were all VERY hard work). It was once you got in that you were told it was "boot camp" for the first semester. And that you'd signed up for life (I thought - how foolish - that it was to train people and return them to their localities, to offer a greater depth of Word and be a twig coordinator there.) In my Corps, we were told we were so (...what? weak spiritually, was it?) that boot camp was extended to next semester. Then it was RoA set up (hard work but often fun). Same next year. Perpetual boot camp. Now the boot's on the other foot. Those boots are made for walking And that's just what they'll do One of these days these boots are gonna walk right over you. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7OU7Nezg7Ls

There have been a number of comments here about abortions being sanctioned or required by TWI. There have been intimations that some of these abortions have been because women have been abused by leaders at the top of TWI. Having also read of people who have been on staff who have not had any medical care paid for by TWI even though injuries have occured as a result of work-related accidents; and people who have been in rez and suffered injury (eg LEAD) and again who have not had medical care paid for by TWI, I'm left wondering: Who paid for these (leadership-conceived) abortions? Was it left to the couple (on the basis that it could have been the husband's fetus that was being aborted)? Was it left to the woman (if a single woman)? Or was this paid for by TWI? PLEASE NOTE: this is not a thread about whether abortion, and TWI's sanctioning of it, is right or wrong. It's about who paid the financial cost.

"Toughen up" ????????? Show me that in the promo literature or promo words about any of the programs! Some of us were pretty tough (ie, resilient, had learned a bit about life, knew how to take a few knocks) before we went in. Some of us knew how to speak for ourselves, deal with things. Some of us had successful professional careers. Successful! You know what? Because I had achieved something of significance - it was squashed time and again. Had genuine academic ability, had genuinely helped people in the world, had genuine profesional qualifications. (Had? I mean, have.) Never mind that my heart for God had led me to that choice of career - if ever I said anything it was, "You're leaning on your 5 senses." Even just making a sensible comment - using my God-given brains - brought this response. Corps wasn't about toughening anybody up. At least from the 90s on, it was about crushing us into a one-size-fits-all robot, capable of reciting the party line (I can't speak for WC training before then). If anyone thought anything other than what the MoG or CC thought, it was considered you had missed on the bit about acquiring in-depth spiritual perception and understanding. Get real! What about the two-by-two thing? Pretty much everyone in any program knew how to cross a road, go to the shop, do things, without their own Political Officer watching every move. Anyway - in which of the gospels does it say: "Toughen up"? I thought they were all about being loving? And the epistles tell us to be "kind and tender-hearted."

Fact is, it was different. Got much more into one's head. Having persuaded adherents to give up friends, family, loved ones, activities, professional aspirations, music and practically anything else that "held them back" from "being God's best" and persuaded people to burn or destroy possessions as harboring devil spirits - people didn't have a lot to fall back on. Hey, I spent nearly a decade in condemnation and fear. Christian friends knew I had problems which were "religion" related. A dear friend came to me one time, held her arms out and said, "God wants you back!" and urged me to renew my relationship with Him (this is several years into being M&A'd). Of course, I thought she was po-zest because wouldn't God tell me first?? Other Christian friends also sought to help. Glad they stayed faithful and loving to me - I was really unloveable thanks to That Place. But I'd had no qualms about leaving my church decades before as being sad and boring. (Maybe that was just being a teenager.) Devil spirits? I think we must all have picked up a big load of 'em to produce spiritual blindness, deafness, dullness of mind, subservience, and who knows what else. Those thoughts had a life and a binding power of their own.

Well, this started off as an interesting thread but when I wasn't looking seems to have deteriorated quite a bit. A book I have been reading lately is called: "J Hudson Taylor - A Man in Christ" by Roger Steer, in the Missonary Life Stories series (ISBN 1-85078-408-6). Hudson Taylor was born in 1832 and it became his life's work to be a missionary in China. It was a difficult time, civil war and outsiders not specially welcome. He insisted on wearing Chinese dress (and insisted his missionaries also did) and that "was rooted in his deep respect for Chinese culture and his sensitive perception of the role of the missionary, in which he was far ahead of his time." Because of that, he made inroads where western-dressed missionaries simply were not accepted. This remarkable man also would not accept any distinction between laity and clergy and insisted all were equal before God, not a decision that won many friends among missionary circles. He was contemporary with George Muller, based his own expectation of getting his needs met on Muller's (prayer but never asking), and in fact time and again Muller sent him funds to support his outreach work.

Thanks, WW. I hoped somebody would pick up on that... Skyrider, I wouldn't be too sure that the Perrys have access to too much. It may look that way but I'm not so sure that they themselves would have their feet in the trough, as you imply. It is more tightly overseen from TWI than to allow that.

I believe Jean-Yves de Lisle is in fact a French Canadian, so technically it's a 50/50 split between Canada and the USA (assuming also that Joe Perry is a Canadian). TWI's "bylaws" which had to be incorporated as much as possible into the rules for the local Way organization/corporation/company insist (or used to) that the CC had to follow the direction of the TWI representative, ie, decisions to be taken in conjunction with, etc. Which of course makes perfect sense, as one doesn't want different countries going off in a completely unrelated direction and sometimes a CC isn't very experienced as a business manager; but in fact what it led to was control from afar not local autonomy.

Okay, can get into it now. Here are the objectives: THE WAY MINISTRY OF CANADA RESEARCHES THE BIBLE AND TEACHES OTHERS HOW TO UNDERSTAND THE BIBLE. THIS IS ACCOMPLISHED THROUGH HOME FELLOWSHIP CLASSES, CONFERENCES AND SEMINARS EDUCATING INDIVIDUALS ON THE MEANING OF THE BIBLE. The officers: 2000 Joe & Louiselle Perry 2001 Joe & Louiselle Perry and Michael Cosgrove 2002 Joe & Louiselle Perry 2003 Joe Perry, Rivenbark, Platig, de Lisle 2004 As above 2005 As above 2006 Joe Perry, Rivenbark, Mittler, de Lisle There seems to have been a change in the law in 2003 and not just directors/trustees but others in a like capacity had to be named. At that point - we see Louiselle Perry disappear and 3 members of TWI put in an appearance. This has such a familiar ring to it. I know nothing of the Perrys, what might be going on in their lives or such - but here again, we see the female half of a marriage blanked and TWI coming in instead. Assuming Joe and Louiselle are still married and together, we see Louiselle becoming a nonentity and the control having passed from the individuals most concerned to the parent organization. I wonder what Louiselle thought about that, and how much input she had into the decision that she was no longer to be a trustee/director? ...And that's before I examine any monetary information...

Links not working. They used to appoint the Country Coordinator, one or two others from that country, and TWI either as one individual (maybe the IO Coordinator) or as itself according to the country's law.

Only in America... Well, what gullible fools would really think this of any child? Even Jesus didn't start his ministry till he was an adult.

Thanks for that, BNIS. A helpful site. Tillie is coming along nicely. Still very timid. She has taken to mewing at me, a pitiful sound but what she wants is some attention, a little food, or playtime. Yes, playtime. She has a horrible bit of string that she loves to catch. Yesterday she was playing with the string and got quite close to me and had a good sniff at my slippers, nightwear and dressing gown. She loves to sniff anything but that is the first time she has snifed at me. She sort of follows me about, moving near to me as I move about the room or to another floor. Still can't touch her, though. The other one went AWOL again for 3 days. I put up the kittening pen and my plan is to catch her and keep her in it for a while, quiet, calm, not very bright, but still where she is forced to see me and anyone else (if she'll open her eyes!), and learn that no-one is going to hurt her. I did catch her but did not get the side up quick enough and she ran off. No idea at all where she has been. Eventually I found her by leaving the sink unit door open again so that she could get in. I suppose an alternative to the kittening pen might be to take the door off the sink unit but then she is likely to hide elsewhere. I feel so sorry for her, locked into her fears. Six weeks on and she is regressing. But the other is progressing so at least there is some satisfaction.

Rather hoped the guy in white would produce a rabbit out of that dish, he looked so like a magician with a magic wand. (Love the trainers under the traditional white dress!) The black-dressed guy could've done so serious fire eating. Was this a military funeral??? (guys at end)

mmm aaa errr mmm isn't the US American something in South Africa next to Eye-rak on the dark side of the moon? Oh no, wait, that's where she has been living. (Probably not applying for the job as Hillary Clinton's foreign secretary if HC should get so far.)

The advances for western women have been tremendous but still need to move forward some. When my mother got married in 1948 she had to leave her job as they did not employ married women in permanent posts. Nonetheless she was retained by the same business for the next five years as a "temporary clerk" doing much the same job. Her employer? The railways, pretty much a nationalized organisation, not sure if it was at that time or became so later. Rising above a Clerk's job would have been unheard of. WW1 was very good for women - it was after that that women were granted the vote because of their contribution to the war effort. WW2 was also very good for women. That was when they had to do "responsible" jobs that had hitherto been thought only capable of being done by men and the glass ceiling began to crack. Would be it equality - if men were kept in cages and taken out only to service women? If men could be sold and beaten up like some prostitutes? If men were subjected to the treatment that they subjected and sometimes still subject women to? If men had to go around wrapped in shrouds (burkhas) and were beaten if they did not? Would women stoop so low? Would men put up with what they had inflcited on women?

Well, these cats, or one of them, is coming along reasonably well. I can get within 2 feet of her and she is not scared. She loves to sit and watch me and has taken up residence under the dining chairs where she can see out but not always be seen. She has played with me occasionally and will chase a "tail" attached to a stick. Recently she has started squeaking at me (such a pathetic little voice for a ful-grown cat!) if she wants something (like food). I have now evicted the cats from the sink unit and cleaned it out thoroughly. Tillie doesn't mind, she prefers the dining chairs. Tallie hates it and keeps breaking back into the sink unit. She squeezed under the kickboard and wriggled between the base and the loose back of the unit. Evicted again and put the kickboard back. But... My cats were funny today. Or rather, Tillie was. I sat down to breakfast and Tillie squeaked at me wanting to eat, so I fed her, she squeaked again so I gave her milk, and she wouldn’t stop squeaking. She kept running to the sink unit. Meanwhile I had been looking for Tallie, who had gone AWOL and was most disgruntled at being evicted from the sink unit. Would you believe it, she had pried the door open and got back in! So I poked her out again, hissing furiously and she shot across the room, upsetting Tillie, who also started rushing around but soon settled. Hissing Sid cowered behind the couch, glaring. I have put my heavy sewing machine in front of the sink unit doors now. I think it shows real hope for Tillie. From being initially the more scared and running (literally) up walls, she is now fairly settled and each day getting a little calmer. She still gets scared and cannot be handled, but every day shows improvement. Unfortunately, I think at this rate Tallie is destined for a short life and she will die of misery or cowardice in a dark hole somewhere, and be happy doing that. I think I may have to confine her to the kittening cage where she cannot run away and will be forced to observe life. She is getting more and more terrified even though I have just left her completely alone in the sink unit where she can neither see nor be seen. Please, anyone, any comments?

I like the one with the art gallery. I don't think I will see paintings quite the same again. What a fun idea, linking one painting to the next. Could be a great kids' activity with any random picture book. The first adwasn't so memorable, had forgotten what it was about by the time I'd typed this and had to go back and look.

Oh, I don't know. Can't be a copy. TWI would never allow such a beat-up old truck as is shown in the first photo. (Tongue in cheek.) Think I'd be looking elsewhere for training...

Wow, Bramble, what a truly wicked person you are. Not. Fancy giving consideration to your children! Fancy taking care of your finances! And refusing to go to a class!!! Clear to see you are not the right material at all. I am glad you got out, your marriage survived and your kids got a better start in life than the wooden spoon just because they existed. Life is probably soooo much more enjoyable for you now and you can make your own decisions, Godly or otherwise, according to what you want and need to achieve.

Kevin/Jonny, when I was in rez I never heard your name mentioned (but then, I wouldn't if you 'd been M&A'd) but on behalf of International Corps, thank you for what you did. I know for departing IWC from in rez, they flew rejects out pronto and oncharged it to the home country. All bought at max rates, probably, no advance purchase fares because of the suddenness of departure. In my home country, the rejects were expected to refund their fares if at all possible to the home country. As if anybody who has been in rez has any much money left to refund air fares. Me, I got M&A'd in the home country after graduation. A fairly brave US resident phoned me to say he'd heard that not only had I been kicked out but had been M&A'd as well. First I knew of it. Reasons: 1. Confronting *leadership* (male) in a very minor way and being beaten down for not being a good follower. 2. Following leadership in their example. When they saw it reflected back, it proved *I* was totally out there and full of DS because *my* behavior was wrong. This was part of an ongoing pattern and became the last straw for them. 3. Using my brain to solve a problem, without asking permission (I think that was the last but one straw). 4. (Quite probably the real reason) being a female. Especially being an intelligent and educated one.