Twinky

Belle tells it like it is. Insidious. Pernicious. Corrosive of thinking ability. You think you're thinking; you even enjoy thinking a little differently (very spiritual, you know). All the time you're alienating yourself from the rest of the world, your friends, your family. No, no. It's not brainwashing. It's washing the worldly thoughts from your brain. Nobody decides to join a cult; but one day you look round, and there you are.

Well just for fun... I am now Freecycling (out) ... my LAWN. I must have had a dozen replies and two or three people want to come and help me lift it. Then I will be Freecycling (in) some hoss muck. For the vege garden, y'know.

Linda, I'm laughing. But probably wouldn't be if that had happened to me. Dot... why'd'ya put this idea in my head? You know what? Went to my church house group last night, locked the door, dropped off at home... and no keys. Had to go round the back and get the spare (needed to use the bathroom, couldn't stand outside half the night!). Once inside I rummaged through my pocket book again and finally found the keys in a place I had looked six times already.

Psalmie, the more I read on this the more it seems that he ought to stay with you. The stuff you posted about your friends not wanting to be there when you were in need because they didn't know what to do is worrying. What your son can learn from YOU, in compassion and looking out for people, will open doors for him in the workplace that education cannot. (Not that I'm saying an education isn't important.) There are lots of other educational opportunities for homeschooled kids that regular schooling cannot cover and they could give him a unique perspective/skills list if suitably tailored. And Dads'n'Lads time or therapy/mediation is a good idea too. What are Dad's unique or special skills to teach his son?

I can't add much but two things occur: firstly, sooner or later he is going to have to leave home and in a carefully controlled environment with known and trusted support would be easier than leaving to go to college. Secondly, what does he really want? You've said he is a mature lad and can make up his own mind. Perhaps now is the time, if you haven't already done so, to sit down with him and discuss his long-term goals (if any) and how he would like to achieve them. He is definitely old enough to be involved in this sort of decision and his future education does need his maximum participation. If he is unhappy with your friends his education will not thrive and neither will he; but to thrive he may need to be out of the "home" box and may be ready to stretch out. Over the summer vacation period - would it be helpful if he went and stayed with your friends for a couple of weeks? You would both have an opportunity for a "free look" at him being away. It's a difficult decision - but only death is completely irreversible. You can change your mind in six months if you make the wrong decision now.

Okay, Linda, where's lockout #2? Yeah, I've locked myself in too. But I know where the spare key is/should be, in the house. I keep thinking I'll just put my hand in my pocket and hey presto! But not so far... ZShot - true, but my garden is 80' long and has two lawns, a shrubbery, a rockery, a fish pond, various flower borders, a patio, a parking spot, a solid wall (no hiding there), two or three rickety fences (potential hiding place there), lots of "things" just lying or stacked around, and all sorts of hiding places. Neither is the garden overlooked. If a burglar wanted to spend a couple of weeks hunting in the garden they might find a key. They will not find much inside that is worth the risk. However, if a burglar were so good at finding keys, he might also find himself a job - locating my missing two sets of keys...

Funny now but bloody annoying at the time. Oh, I asked in every shop in the street where I usually shop too. Even though I had no recollection of going out to the shops on the fateful Friday. Felt like the proverbial woman with the silver coin, sweeping the house out. But she got what she sought. Dot, hide a key in your garden. You must have a hole or crevice or similar unless your yard is concrete and nothing else. Under the mat and under a plant pot are not good ideas. Where did I put that application form for the Alzheimer's Society...

Hey this is my party trick! So I keep a spare key hidden on the property in a place it would take some ill-intentioned person quite a while to find. And it is not the key for the nearest door (the back door) but for the front door which actually means a hike of several minutes round a couple of other streets - can't go round the side of the property as there is no side. Now my latest party trick: Thursday: I went out in my car, brought something in through the front door, drove the car to its parking spot round the back, locked it, and entered the house. Friday. I left the house and deadlocked the back door. Went to work on my bicycle (not worthwhile driving). Came home from work late and had no house keys. Couldn't be bothered to go to the office to look for the house keys so used the secret spare. Saturday: went to the office, turned it upside down, no keys. No car keys either (separate bunch). Next two weeks: sorted through my trash. Sorted through all the office trash. Sorted through my compost bin. Not to mention every drawer, every pocket, every item of clothing (boy, do I have some clothes...), under every piece of furniture... I was not exactly ROFLMAO. To this day I have found neither the house keys nor the (only) car key. Can I STRONGLY suggest that if you have only one car key you make a note of its number or get another cut. Man, the inconvenience of getting a replacement. Had to get the radio code as well as the interior light (cunningly left on...) had drained the battery. A brain transplant is quite useful too.

Spare a thought for those of us who were just jumping into the water at that time. Course, in the 51st state we were a bit more autonomous (well anyway it was well before Loy's intense control freakery of the 90s) and in the mid-80s everyone was enthusiastic for setting up Gartmore and that's where energies were focused. Was PoP in 86? (Thought it was later.) Not a word of it hit the streets where I was.

Aw, Paw, you're just fishing for compliments. Well, hey, why not, this site is a good thing that has helped many. Me, I thought it needed shooting down as being a wicked and offensive place when I first happened across it. Fancy saying such things about that great ministry! And its dynamic leader, LCM! But as you know - I stuck around. And finally got healed. Not so much scales falling from my eyes as completely new eyes. This site still reaches out to new visitors to the Cafe and to lurkers. So build the extension and employ a few more busboys. Long may the Cafe continue to thrive. And its visitors thrive with it. Drinks all round, folks.

Yeah, lots of baby/small kid stuff - clothing, toys - the stuff that's only needed for a few months and then it's outgrown. Great idea to Freecycle your garage sale leftovers.

He needs a special huge chair? Handmade? They don't have chairs in the cities he's visiting? Does the fancy model come complete with string for correctly arranging the adjacent rows of chairs and kneelers mentioned in the article? Back on topic - I think he's a bit skinnier than VPW. And he has two working eyes.

You forgot the question, What sex are you? =Male or female or don't know or don't care

Just in case some of you are not aware, there is a group/organization called FREECYCLE where you can get, or get rid of, just about anything – free. It is arranged in individual cities or areas and if you googled Freecycle and the name of your city or area that would bring up local groups. www.freecycle.org I have benefited so much from Freecycle – mostly getting stuff (having just bought a house) but also getting rid of clutter and stuff I've beenable to upgrade. Only stipulations are that everything has to be free and cannot be animals (pets). It can range from cars, household furniture, plants, egg boxes, surplus homegrown veges – even a dozen odd socks were offered which were gone within a couple of hours (suggested use was as glove puppets). It's useful to get rid of ends of materials – little bits of plaster board or ½ tin of paint for example. Some people even donate their services. Also I have asked for things on loan for a week or two and have asked for advice about one or two things and folk have emailed with responses or pointed me to websites that answer the question. In the last couple of months, I have among other things received: 2 carpets (one of excellent quality and only a few months old) 2 rugs (one made of silk, looks old and valuable) A trio of hands-free telephones (a big need, that one) 2 complete computers PLUS boundless computer support by the man who made up one complete internet-ready computer for me from old but serviceable parts A pedal cycle 1/3 cubic metre of gravel (to re-lay garden path) Service for my sewing machine 2 complete stereo sets Plants for my garden ...plus loads more stuff For friends I have located: Pianos Beds Household furniture Weird stuff I have given away: Clay from my garden An assortment of plastic boxes (for storage purposes) Garden plants/seeds including one tree And everyone I have met has been a really nice person and usually very helpful. If you are short of funds yourself, help out disadvantaged people, need something unusual, or just need to get rid of something that still has usable time left in it – give it a try. If you're already a member of Freecycle, what are your success stories? If you haven't tried it yet - sort out your old junk and see what you can get rid of.

Well, BoJ, you've obviously got your view and don't wish to consider any other. I only floated it to see what people might think - for a bit of a discussion. Don't think this is going anywhere so this is my parting shot. Jen-o, Freecycle is good, yes, glad you found it helpful. Think I'll start a topic in Open so perhaps see you there.

At least he met some of the victims of the sexual abuse and apologized to them. Very late in the piece but better late than never. It seems to have helped some of the victims who were interviewed afterwards. Damage control (cynical)? Trying to appear better in the world's eyes? Was it really heartfelt? (the victims I heard interviewed seemed to think so). If it helped them it's got to be good. Most of us went through too much pain and still await acknowledgment of that.

"Literal according to usage". Now break this down. It's either "literal" or "according to usage" "Literal" means "actually" so frequently doesn't make sense because of the idiom of the original language, or the idiom of the language into which it's translated. "According to usage" must mean according to local idiom. So you could have either a literal translation or a translation according to usage but not sure that you can have both. Thinking about it now puts this expression on the same level as "genuine spiritual suspicion" - a topic which has received its own discussion elsewhere in these forums.

Does this only work for Amazon.com or for other bits of Amazon?

It's a great song but I don't particularly like this version of it, a bit too slow and dirge-like. And as somebody remarked above, very "Singing Ladies" style, over-synchronized moves. I like the song based on Ps 103, "The Lord is Gracious and Compassionate" - there isn't a nice one on Youtube. So healing after the condemnation of TWI. Like Jen-o says, brings tears to the eyes. I wish 'em well with it but don't see it making the winning post. That's probably reserved for some soppy love ballad or whatever about nothing important.

30 years ago... I was standing at the kitchen sink and quite clearly remember thinking, "What is life all about? There has to be more to it that just getting up and going out to work, living and dying." I started to get interested in religion again, visited a few local churches, met some nice people but heard nothing of substance...started to read the Bible in Genesis (why is this relevant to me?), Matthew (why is this relevant to me?), Romans (what the heck is this stuff?), Revelation (huh??). Some years later I lit upon Acts (WOW, how exciting is this!!!) and got seriously interested, met a WoW and ... My first RoA was immediately before entering the Corps. (My Country Coordinator dissuaded me from going before, saying it would be not the best (don't recall the words) - it would have been the first after PoP.) As apprentice Corps I had to work dishroom nearly all the time and felt rather disappointed because I saw hardly anything of this wonderful festival that everyone had talked about. Little did I know that that was the start of a whole lot of work and being at events but never seeing them. 30 years ago if you'd told me all this was going to happen I would have laughed in your face. Now? No regrets, but no going back!

I covered this right in the first post starting this thread but The Message is a little different from the more familiar KJV: Acts 1:4 And, being assembled together with them, commanded them that they should not depart from Jerusalem, but wait for the promise of the Father, which, saith he, ye have heard of me. or in Young's Literal Translation: 4 And being assembled together with them, he commanded them not to depart from Jerusalem, but to wait for the promise of the Father, which, [saith he,] `Ye did hear of me; The implication to me is clear: they were to wait until a specific event, then do something. (along the lines of, "Go to Wal-Mart, the drugstore and the cafe - but wait for Susie to join you, as I told you she'd be coming" - or, "...but wait till pay day, which you know is due tomorrow." They certainly were witnesses straight away in Jerusalem and Acts 2 records not only the arrival of holy spirit but the first great Christian sermon. It's closely followed by many new converts, and wonders and signs. It must have been a thrillingly heady time. I can so understand why they would want to stay around. But by Acts 3 they are already having altercations with the religious hierarchy. Acts 6 shows the "murmurings" of the "Grecians" against the "Hebrews" which has been discussed above in this thread. So already there is division beginning in the new Christian church. If they had moved off soon after Pentecost, the sermon and the conversion of the 3,000, would this division have occurred? These 3,000 didn't all live in Jersualem, they were there for the Festival (Feast of Weeks) and would have to return to their homes and livelihoods. The Samaritans we know from the gospels were also ready to receive and they definitely would not have been at the Feast of Weeks. (I don't know that they ever got the opportunity to hear the good news - a revisit to the village where JC spoke with the woman at the well? Not recorded) Maybe in some parts of Galilee they would not have been received ("a prophet is not without honour except in his own country") - but some people would have received. From there out to all points north, west and east? In fact - if they are to witness in Jerusalem, Judea, Samaria and to the uttermost part of the earth - Jerusalem, Judea and the uttermost part got to hear - but we really don't know a lot about how much Samaria heard!

The thing is, jen-o, that in all versions you will see that the twelve declined to do the food distribution. Here's just a few, but you can look on Crosswalk.com and plug this scripture reference and read it in any of a score of translations. KJV Then the twelve called the multitude of the disciples unto them, and said, It is not reason that we should leave the word of God, and serve tables. New KJV Then the twelve summoned the multitude of the disciples and said, "It is not desirable that we should leave the word of God and serve tables. NSB So the twelve summoned the congregation of the disciples and said, "It is not desirable for us to neglect the word of God in order to serve tables. RSV And the twelve summoned the body of the disciples and said, "It is not right that we should give up preaching the word of God to serve tables. Weymouth NT So the Twelve called together the general body of the disciples and said, "It does not seem fitting that we Apostles should neglect the delivery of God's Message and minister at tables. Young's literal translation and the twelve, having called near the multitude of the disciples, said, `It is not pleasing that we, having left the word of God, do minister at tables; NIV So the Twelve gathered all the disciples together and said, "It would not be right for us to neglect the ministry of the word of God in order to wait on tables. The longer these guys stayed in Jerusalem, the more they got sucked into the legalism of the Pharisees and returned to their old ways, like not eating with Gentiles and other ritual behavior. Their homes were in Galilee, for goodness sake, which was a fair way from Jerusalem. Galilee was not subject to the same Pharisaical legalism that had hamstrung Jerusalem (according to Josephus there were no Pharisees there until about AD70). True there were synagogues and establishments of religious learning but the area was far from the legalism and control aspects of worship based nearer Jerusalem. It would perhaps be a bit like churches nowadays, the further from the seat of government the less stringently applied was the church's doctrine (as opposed to the basic elements of Christianity). So Mother Theresa gave out contraception to Indian women though the RC Church is dead against contraception. Churches and chapels in smaller towns and villages often have a looser and less ritualistic church service than the great Cathedrals in cities. So perhaps the apostles should have gone back to Galilee if they for whatever reason didn't want to set off straight away for the uttemost parts of the earth, and if they wanted a base, establish it in Galilee, and not lying down with the temple dogs in Jerusalem and catching their fleas. In Acts 19 we read (NIV as jen-o does not like The Message): 8 Paul entered the synagogue and spoke boldly there for three months, arguing persuasively about the kingdom of God. 9 But some of them became obstinate; they refused to believe and publicly maligned the Way. So Paul left them. He took the disciples with him and had discussions daily in the lecture hall of Tyrannus. 10 This went on for two years, so that all the Jews and Greeks who lived in the province of Asia heard the word of the Lord. 11 God did extraordinary miracles through Paul, 12 so that even handkerchiefs and aprons that had touched him were taken to the sick, and their illnesses were cured and the evil spirits left them. Things only moved when Paul and the disciples with him got out from the legalistic environment. Paul had tried to take the gospel to the Jews first. It simply would not take off whilst he preached only in the synagogue. And that was without a huge contingent of Pharisees present in Ephesus. But when he moved to a neutral environment - all the Jews and Greeks heard the word of the Lord.

Mmm - is the girl willing to come to church with you? To listen to some other views? To discuss without an agenda any points of difference - where she might believe differently? Does she and do her parents consider your biblical views? Or do they just try to show you where you are "wrong"? Not everything TWI taught is wrong (if it were, we wouldn't all have stuck around so long). But it is very difficult to sort out the truth from the private interpretation sometimes. And the practice, the stuff that's not written down, ... enjoy the good side of it. The greatest, most wonderful loving Christians I have met have been in TWI or ex Wayfers. The worst, most vicious and spiteful Christians I have met have been in TWI or ex Wayfers. Some started by being the first and stayed that way. Some started by being the first and the legalism turned them into the latter. Some started by being the latter and disguising it under religious piety. ...Stay sharp...!

For those still deeply rooted in "the Law of Believing," may I suggest a review of Ecclesiastes? Here are some excerpts: Ecclesiastes 8:14 There is a vanity which is done upon the earth; that there be just men, unto whom it happeneth according to the work of the wicked; again, there be wicked men, to whom it happeneth according to the work of the righteous: I said that this also is vanity (In other words, you don't always get what you work towards - work towards presumably believing to attain. And the wicked get better than they believe for) Ecc 9:11 I returned, and saw under the sun, that the race is not to the swift, nor the battle to the strong, neither yet bread to the wise, nor yet riches to men of understanding, nor yet favour to men of skill; but time and chance happeneth to them all. (Those who have worked hard, trained, and acquired skills and abilities don't always get the benefit. Is not the acquisition and application of skills part of "believing"? - but chance overrides that!) If the Law of Believing works for saint and sinner alike - why are there so many people in prison? Presumably most of those who commit crimes do so usually in the belief they will get away with it. Indeed, fraudsters go to most elaborate ends to disguise what they are up to, setting up fake companies and all sorts. And no mugger would attack under the watchful eye of a police officer. (Oops, edited because seems to have posted wording twice)

Ain't that true! He (and TWI) did specialize in black or white. It was a way of cutting us off. Turning off our thinking skills. There are better (more scholarly) books than JCING around to make the point. I guess the best that can be said is that he got us to think about it at all, after a fashion.