Twinky

Ham, this is the man who invited us to write to him simply addressed as, "The Teacher." The Teacher? Isn't that how JC was addressed? Isn't JC also described as being our high priest? John 3:2 The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him. Heb 3:1 Wherefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our profession, Christ Jesus;

You are joking, right? Fasting? Prayer??? Perhaps keeping vigil in the motorcoach? They sure were. Undercut, threaten, demoralize, bully (especially capable people and women), belittle common sense - and then have the bullied woman's husband or the TC or BC claim to be "standing in the gap" for them to protect them. It's just a way of demonstrating control. Good post, BTW, Socks.

He could get all upset about the law because these things applied: Mt 23:23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone. Too busy keeping “the first commandment” so that there was no time to begin to think of “the second commandment” below… Mk 12:29 And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord: 30 And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment. 31 And the second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these. But then again, if the gospels don't apply to you, you don't need to know this stuff. And the OT is "for our learning" (as if that meant something different from, for us to learn from/for our doctrine). ALL have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God...including VPW. And the sin in his personal camp was egregious. I guess he and the rest of the inner circle used up all the grace that was going (LOL).

WB, that's good to know. However, this is after the event. Do you know if he asked for prayer for healing, BEFORE the operation to remove the eye? The things you said about him being "damaged" and therefore not able to stand before God as High Priest (cough) I have heard before - maybe it was recounted by LCM in his taped class, whatever it was called, his Birth-to-Corps recital. I recall the account of VPW's concerns relating to the operation; I don't recall ever hearing that there was any prayer request prior to the op. What a hole that would blow, in the Law of Believing! And no-one talked about glass eyes when presenting PFAL to newbies, ie, how the Law of Believing actually DID NOT work as VPW claimed it did. Hooked us and reeled us in. Overlooked the hook in his own eye. To paraphrase just a little.

So, Ron, what's your take on the fish hook story? Do you accept that, then?

So, Ron, does that mean you agree about the fish hook or have something to add about that ... reason for removal of the eye?

Or put another way, even when VPW clearly had a need - he hadn't the respect for the Body of believers he had trained / the household / call it what you will - to turn to them for prayer. It wasn't worth him spitting in their direction (LOL). Not even worth spitting in their collective eyes. Nor would he let (one of) them spit in his eye - you know, the spittle of a holy man was believed to cure eye diseases. Like JC did. (Or maybe that did happen - but we've never heard about it.)

Sorry, OCW. Maybe this thread should have a health warning.

Ah, crikey. Well over a decade after being M&A'd but a couple of years after getting my brain back (having discovered the Cafe), I went to a carol concert one December (dare I say, Christmas?) put on by the Salvation Army which was okay and I was doing all right until the presenter said, "Now the Corps will sing...." and chills ran up my spine and my hair stood on end and my eyes bugged out... It's the words or expressions that catch you completely unawares, whether said by someone else or coming out of your own mouth.

Scare the coorinator(s) by asking them questions based on ... the gospels! Like, what are they doing to help the poor in your area? Why aren't they having a good time in pubs, like JC did? How many of the "greater works than JC" have they done - this year, even? Hey, tell them some of the amazing stories of deliverance you have heard about, get them enthusiastic about God's great power, and then say the people were delivered - from being in TWI and - you heard it at the Cafe!!! (Fight fire with fire.) Watch yourself get fired for reading in the forbidden books that no longer apply to us

Hope it was a good one, Jeff. Looks like Rainbow's Girl REALLY likes you!!!

Hey y'all. Now I'm really pi$$ed off. Y'all are going to have such a great time. And I won't be there :( . Ex10, you really do need to get Skype so's I can join you at a distance, not as good as the real thing but better than nothing. Just don't have DWBH wave those lobsters around too much! And I wanna hear the jam session(s)!!!!!

Mark, so you've heard this fish hook story already then. When was it circulating, when did you hear it? And does anyone know when the "burning the eyes out for PFAL" story started circulating?

There you are, then, Geisha, an end to your difficulties. Yes, you might need to import the Marmite via your relatives. US friends who knew the product used to beg the Internationals to bring them jars when they were in the US. (Revolting stuff...) If you can get Bovril that might work too. Tuxedo has today let me stroke her front (her tux) and use both hands, one either side of her chest. Slowly slowly catchee cat. Just a tiny step in progress.

So now we have ... a cover story for the cover story? Sounds gross, passing the glass eye around. But yes, Waysider, it would have been a fine opportunity to give a real account of why he needed a glass eye instead of presenting some story that was not true. What, did he think his loyal students could not pray and believe with him for healing? More like, would have to change a shedload of doctrine, or expose himself for being, at heart, an unbeliever. When was the eye removed and the glass eye fitted? What were the Way Corps at that time told? Who was in rez then?

Sunesis, I really liked JRR too. I know many people were afraid of him, but he really had a tremendous heart for people generally and for IO and although he could blow up at people if he thought they were slacking off or not doing things properly, he was also very kind. I think he was badly treated by the BoT. He had nothing to gain by telling me this story. I can't remember how it came about that he told me. It was quite natural in the circs. It was in response to something that I'd said, which included something about the "burning the eyes" story and he said, "No, that wasn't it at all, it was a fish hook," and told me what I have recounted here. George: maybe it was a cover story. But it's one that only just seems to be coming to light - as opposed to the "burning the eyes for PFAL" story which was widely circulated. Anyway, George, why was he seeing a doctor in SEATTLE for oncology?? But if they had gone there for a fishing trip...

Samson. Had a thing about women. Eventually brought the house down on top of himself. Well, maybe not. That maligns Samson too much !

I posted elsewhere about the loss of VPW's eye and was asked by another visitor to the Cafe to open this for discussion. Apparently the reason for removal isn't widely known. It was put about that he had suffered so much during the filming of PFAL, what with the bright lights and all. But I was told by Rev J0hn Rexn0lds, Coordinator of International Outreach, with whom I had worked a lot of time, that in fact the eye that was removed was injured as a result a fish hook that he got in his eye when he was off fishing with the BoT on a "ministry planning meeting." The meeting obviously took place in a river where he was washing some sins away or being baptized or something (LOL). The injured eye was not removed due to damage caused by the filming (even though it may have been damaged during the filming). Don't know if JRR was present at the BoT meeting and it was long before he himself was appointed to the BoT (but he was a very early Corpsman and had been around for many years). JRR certainly worked very very closely with H0ward All3n and no doubt if JRR was not there, H0ward would have told him. There may be other people posting here who have been around for a very long time, who could corroborate the story, if this had been made known to them. Sunesis? DWBH? I have to say that I had no doubt about JRR's explanation, either then or now. But as well as that, I don't doubt that filming under bright lights may have caused injury in the OTHER eye, or some damage which may have led to cancer.

My mum experienced a problem with her vision that was, she said, like a curtain over part of her eye. It was the retina detaching. Speedily fixed with careful surgery. As with Bramble - no pain, just obstructed vision. Bramble, glad you got the treatment you needed. Take care not to sneeze for the next few days until healing is complete. Hope all goes well with you.

Personally I detest Marmite. But I thought the smell seemed a little like the smell of some flavors of catbix, so tried it with a worm tablet for Twinkletoes (Twinky) and put it with a small quantity of catbix. It was such a fight trying to ram it down his throat. He ate all the catbix and then ate the worm tablet, last of all. I may have tried with a smear of Marmite on my finger first which he licked off. Anyway now he does not bother with the Marmite, the worm tab just goes in the food bowl and gets eaten last of all, no bribes, no nuthin. It is such a tiny thin smear you will need, Geisha, and only once every 3 months or as often as your tabs require, that it won't do any harm. See if they will eat a smear from your finger or on an ordinary catbiccy. I have recommended this to other people and they have told me they find it helpful. Anyway you have nothing to lose! Would love to see your cats if you can post a photo. I have not had to try Tuxedo and Crypto yet as they are still indoor cats so have no opportunity to get parasites from mice or other prey. Oh joy, the thought of having to dose either of them. I will need a suit of armor.

Now where have I heard it said that sometimes the MoG dies prematurely - because he is "standing in the gap" for his people and has to deflect such a lot of evil from reaching the people. Is something like that touched on in PFAL? Or was it something much later (Adv class?)? Not suicide; just nonsense. And about they eye: it was put about that he had suffered so much during the filming of PFAL, what with the bright lights and all. But in fact I was told by someone "trustworthy" that it was a fish hook that he got in his eye when he was off with the BoT on a ministry planning meeting. The meeting obviously took place in a river where he was washing some sins away or being baptized or something (LOL).

Hey Dooj. Well, you know about some other character that seemed to have read your autobio. What "level" was he, a BC? Glad this thread is giving you a little fresh insight, pi$$y though that may be. 's all about control. Ex10: you may have some really weird stuff in your journals. They'd probably make interesting reading, with hindsight. Sort of their biography, that you wrote as their amanuensis. I still have my journals, too, from in rez. It's embarrassing reading them. Such petty stuff seemed such a big deal. I seemed to spend a lot of time stressing over things that really didn't matter and awaiting deliverance. And that's just what was written down...!

And as regards the "higher powers", the leader is to submit to the church as regards discipline, from the Bible extracts above, isn't that so? So who is the higher power? The church as a whole. Not the man on the pedestal, the claimed mouthpiece for God. Who is the head of the church, the real higher power? What's his name, begins with J, I think...

2 Cor 6:3 Giving no offence in any thing, that the ministry be not blamed: 4 But in all things approving ourselves as the ministers of God, in much patience, in afflictions, in necessities, in distresses, 5 In stripes, in imprisonments, in tumults, in labours, in watchings, in fastings; 6 By pureness, by knowledge, by longsuffering, by kindness, by the Holy Ghost, by love unfeigned, 7 By the word of truth, by the power of God, by the armour of righteousness on the right hand and on the left, 8 By honour and dishonour, by evil report and good report: as deceivers, and yet true; 9 As unknown, and yet well known; as dying, and, behold, we live; as chastened, and not killed; 10 As sorrowful, yet alway rejoicing; as poor, yet making many rich; as having nothing, and yet possessing all things. They forgot the stuff highlighted in blue and concentrated far too much on the stuff in red. Where some fault or error has been noted there is this: Standard for ordinary believers: Mt 18:15 Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother. 16 But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established. 17 And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican. Standard for church leaders: 1 Tim 5:19 Against an elder receive not an accusation, but before two or three witnesses. 20 Them that sin rebuke before all, that others also may fear. 21 I charge thee before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, and the elect angels, that thou observe these things without preferring one before another, doing nothing by partiality. Not much difference, is there? Confrontation by 2 or 3, then open confrontation in the church. It's a command, to expose sinful church leaders. It should have been "available" that two or three believers should have been able to confront alleged perps and secure some sort of answer. If that didn't work, it should then have been "available" for the sins of the perp to be brought before the whole church. In these sex cases, DWBH and the psych that he mentions on his thread should have been able to confront VPW and LCM about their sexual misconduct. It should have been investigated. If not investigated, it should have been possible for DWBH and others to bring it before the whole church. Should? Yes. Possible? Not on your life. Those leaders did not "submit" themselves in love to other believers. Their idea of submitting was (as LCM once said), to submit to the needs of the whole body by teaching them (at SNS and Corps nights). It still hasn't been brought before the church, ie, the people remaining in TWI. It has never honestly been addressed there. Those in control of the church still control (mostly) the means of making it known to the church. (Happily, they do not control the Internet!) If criminal behavior is dealt with within the church there may be no need to involve civil authorities (but then again, there may be need, think for example of the abuse by MN of children in Alaska). If the church abdicates its responsibilities in the area of dealing with its leaders, it only has itself to blame if people look to the civil authorities for remedy. They haven't acted without partiality when it comes to dealing with the matters brought before them.

Geisha, mine do that too! Crypto will disappear some place, and Tuxy will mill around and mew a lot and keep looking in the direction where Crypto has hidden. My cat things are kept in a box in the kitchen. One day I came home and Tuxy was looking a little lary and somewhat pleased with herself. She had got into the toy box and found a little cardboard box of catnip, got it open, gnawed through the plastic bag containing the catnip, and gorged herself silly. (I'm told it acts like cannabis, for cats.) I keep the catnip in a cupboard now with the door firmly closed. But if I want a laugh, I sprinkle a little on the carpet and watch'em both go crazy. "Keeping up Appearances" was a very funny program. Glad to hear your cats give you so much pleasure!