Twinky

Ah, crikey. Well over a decade after being M&A'd but a couple of years after getting my brain back (having discovered the Cafe), I went to a carol concert one December (dare I say, Christmas?) put on by the Salvation Army which was okay and I was doing all right until the presenter said, "Now the Corps will sing...." and chills ran up my spine and my hair stood on end and my eyes bugged out... It's the words or expressions that catch you completely unawares, whether said by someone else or coming out of your own mouth.

Scare the coorinator(s) by asking them questions based on ... the gospels! Like, what are they doing to help the poor in your area? Why aren't they having a good time in pubs, like JC did? How many of the "greater works than JC" have they done - this year, even? Hey, tell them some of the amazing stories of deliverance you have heard about, get them enthusiastic about God's great power, and then say the people were delivered - from being in TWI and - you heard it at the Cafe!!! (Fight fire with fire.) Watch yourself get fired for reading in the forbidden books that no longer apply to us

Hope it was a good one, Jeff. Looks like Rainbow's Girl REALLY likes you!!!

Hey y'all. Now I'm really pi$$ed off. Y'all are going to have such a great time. And I won't be there :( . Ex10, you really do need to get Skype so's I can join you at a distance, not as good as the real thing but better than nothing. Just don't have DWBH wave those lobsters around too much! And I wanna hear the jam session(s)!!!!!

Mark, so you've heard this fish hook story already then. When was it circulating, when did you hear it? And does anyone know when the "burning the eyes out for PFAL" story started circulating?

There you are, then, Geisha, an end to your difficulties. Yes, you might need to import the Marmite via your relatives. US friends who knew the product used to beg the Internationals to bring them jars when they were in the US. (Revolting stuff...) If you can get Bovril that might work too. Tuxedo has today let me stroke her front (her tux) and use both hands, one either side of her chest. Slowly slowly catchee cat. Just a tiny step in progress.

So now we have ... a cover story for the cover story? Sounds gross, passing the glass eye around. But yes, Waysider, it would have been a fine opportunity to give a real account of why he needed a glass eye instead of presenting some story that was not true. What, did he think his loyal students could not pray and believe with him for healing? More like, would have to change a shedload of doctrine, or expose himself for being, at heart, an unbeliever. When was the eye removed and the glass eye fitted? What were the Way Corps at that time told? Who was in rez then?

Sunesis, I really liked JRR too. I know many people were afraid of him, but he really had a tremendous heart for people generally and for IO and although he could blow up at people if he thought they were slacking off or not doing things properly, he was also very kind. I think he was badly treated by the BoT. He had nothing to gain by telling me this story. I can't remember how it came about that he told me. It was quite natural in the circs. It was in response to something that I'd said, which included something about the "burning the eyes" story and he said, "No, that wasn't it at all, it was a fish hook," and told me what I have recounted here. George: maybe it was a cover story. But it's one that only just seems to be coming to light - as opposed to the "burning the eyes for PFAL" story which was widely circulated. Anyway, George, why was he seeing a doctor in SEATTLE for oncology?? But if they had gone there for a fishing trip...

Samson. Had a thing about women. Eventually brought the house down on top of himself. Well, maybe not. That maligns Samson too much !

I posted elsewhere about the loss of VPW's eye and was asked by another visitor to the Cafe to open this for discussion. Apparently the reason for removal isn't widely known. It was put about that he had suffered so much during the filming of PFAL, what with the bright lights and all. But I was told by Rev J0hn Rexn0lds, Coordinator of International Outreach, with whom I had worked a lot of time, that in fact the eye that was removed was injured as a result a fish hook that he got in his eye when he was off fishing with the BoT on a "ministry planning meeting." The meeting obviously took place in a river where he was washing some sins away or being baptized or something (LOL). The injured eye was not removed due to damage caused by the filming (even though it may have been damaged during the filming). Don't know if JRR was present at the BoT meeting and it was long before he himself was appointed to the BoT (but he was a very early Corpsman and had been around for many years). JRR certainly worked very very closely with H0ward All3n and no doubt if JRR was not there, H0ward would have told him. There may be other people posting here who have been around for a very long time, who could corroborate the story, if this had been made known to them. Sunesis? DWBH? I have to say that I had no doubt about JRR's explanation, either then or now. But as well as that, I don't doubt that filming under bright lights may have caused injury in the OTHER eye, or some damage which may have led to cancer.

My mum experienced a problem with her vision that was, she said, like a curtain over part of her eye. It was the retina detaching. Speedily fixed with careful surgery. As with Bramble - no pain, just obstructed vision. Bramble, glad you got the treatment you needed. Take care not to sneeze for the next few days until healing is complete. Hope all goes well with you.

Personally I detest Marmite. But I thought the smell seemed a little like the smell of some flavors of catbix, so tried it with a worm tablet for Twinkletoes (Twinky) and put it with a small quantity of catbix. It was such a fight trying to ram it down his throat. He ate all the catbix and then ate the worm tablet, last of all. I may have tried with a smear of Marmite on my finger first which he licked off. Anyway now he does not bother with the Marmite, the worm tab just goes in the food bowl and gets eaten last of all, no bribes, no nuthin. It is such a tiny thin smear you will need, Geisha, and only once every 3 months or as often as your tabs require, that it won't do any harm. See if they will eat a smear from your finger or on an ordinary catbiccy. I have recommended this to other people and they have told me they find it helpful. Anyway you have nothing to lose! Would love to see your cats if you can post a photo. I have not had to try Tuxedo and Crypto yet as they are still indoor cats so have no opportunity to get parasites from mice or other prey. Oh joy, the thought of having to dose either of them. I will need a suit of armor.

Now where have I heard it said that sometimes the MoG dies prematurely - because he is "standing in the gap" for his people and has to deflect such a lot of evil from reaching the people. Is something like that touched on in PFAL? Or was it something much later (Adv class?)? Not suicide; just nonsense. And about they eye: it was put about that he had suffered so much during the filming of PFAL, what with the bright lights and all. But in fact I was told by someone "trustworthy" that it was a fish hook that he got in his eye when he was off with the BoT on a ministry planning meeting. The meeting obviously took place in a river where he was washing some sins away or being baptized or something (LOL).

Hey Dooj. Well, you know about some other character that seemed to have read your autobio. What "level" was he, a BC? Glad this thread is giving you a little fresh insight, pi$$y though that may be. 's all about control. Ex10: you may have some really weird stuff in your journals. They'd probably make interesting reading, with hindsight. Sort of their biography, that you wrote as their amanuensis. I still have my journals, too, from in rez. It's embarrassing reading them. Such petty stuff seemed such a big deal. I seemed to spend a lot of time stressing over things that really didn't matter and awaiting deliverance. And that's just what was written down...!

And as regards the "higher powers", the leader is to submit to the church as regards discipline, from the Bible extracts above, isn't that so? So who is the higher power? The church as a whole. Not the man on the pedestal, the claimed mouthpiece for God. Who is the head of the church, the real higher power? What's his name, begins with J, I think...

2 Cor 6:3 Giving no offence in any thing, that the ministry be not blamed: 4 But in all things approving ourselves as the ministers of God, in much patience, in afflictions, in necessities, in distresses, 5 In stripes, in imprisonments, in tumults, in labours, in watchings, in fastings; 6 By pureness, by knowledge, by longsuffering, by kindness, by the Holy Ghost, by love unfeigned, 7 By the word of truth, by the power of God, by the armour of righteousness on the right hand and on the left, 8 By honour and dishonour, by evil report and good report: as deceivers, and yet true; 9 As unknown, and yet well known; as dying, and, behold, we live; as chastened, and not killed; 10 As sorrowful, yet alway rejoicing; as poor, yet making many rich; as having nothing, and yet possessing all things. They forgot the stuff highlighted in blue and concentrated far too much on the stuff in red. Where some fault or error has been noted there is this: Standard for ordinary believers: Mt 18:15 Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother. 16 But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established. 17 And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican. Standard for church leaders: 1 Tim 5:19 Against an elder receive not an accusation, but before two or three witnesses. 20 Them that sin rebuke before all, that others also may fear. 21 I charge thee before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, and the elect angels, that thou observe these things without preferring one before another, doing nothing by partiality. Not much difference, is there? Confrontation by 2 or 3, then open confrontation in the church. It's a command, to expose sinful church leaders. It should have been "available" that two or three believers should have been able to confront alleged perps and secure some sort of answer. If that didn't work, it should then have been "available" for the sins of the perp to be brought before the whole church. In these sex cases, DWBH and the psych that he mentions on his thread should have been able to confront VPW and LCM about their sexual misconduct. It should have been investigated. If not investigated, it should have been possible for DWBH and others to bring it before the whole church. Should? Yes. Possible? Not on your life. Those leaders did not "submit" themselves in love to other believers. Their idea of submitting was (as LCM once said), to submit to the needs of the whole body by teaching them (at SNS and Corps nights). It still hasn't been brought before the church, ie, the people remaining in TWI. It has never honestly been addressed there. Those in control of the church still control (mostly) the means of making it known to the church. (Happily, they do not control the Internet!) If criminal behavior is dealt with within the church there may be no need to involve civil authorities (but then again, there may be need, think for example of the abuse by MN of children in Alaska). If the church abdicates its responsibilities in the area of dealing with its leaders, it only has itself to blame if people look to the civil authorities for remedy. They haven't acted without partiality when it comes to dealing with the matters brought before them.

Geisha, mine do that too! Crypto will disappear some place, and Tuxy will mill around and mew a lot and keep looking in the direction where Crypto has hidden. My cat things are kept in a box in the kitchen. One day I came home and Tuxy was looking a little lary and somewhat pleased with herself. She had got into the toy box and found a little cardboard box of catnip, got it open, gnawed through the plastic bag containing the catnip, and gorged herself silly. (I'm told it acts like cannabis, for cats.) I keep the catnip in a cupboard now with the door firmly closed. But if I want a laugh, I sprinkle a little on the carpet and watch'em both go crazy. "Keeping up Appearances" was a very funny program. Glad to hear your cats give you so much pleasure!

The dogs were "running away" = not even towards the officers! A lab is more likely to lick an unexpected visitor to death, than to bit the visitor. Huh. You guys gotta bring your police under control. In the UK police do not routinely carry fire arms. Perhaps that's why they are more civil. Can't afford to pi$$ off crims with guns. But neither can they shoot innocent passers-by and dogs in their own homes.

Well, things are going well with the little critters. Tuxedo now enjoys being fondled. In fact when I have my breakfast, she sits at my feet and starts with a plaintive mew and progresses to quite a loud miaow, if she doesn't get stroked. She is very fond of her neck being rubbed. She tends to wander about and walk off whilst being fondled and then turn back as if to say, why did you stop? She sometimes throws herself at my feet and often purrs loudly. I have one of those wire pet grooming brushes and she seems to love being brushed with that, especially short strong passes which may remind her a little of being licked by her mother. Her coat gleams beautifully. I try to expand her boundaries daily and now she will let me stroke and occasionally groom her underbelly. I may not stroke her front (her pretty white vest) nor may I use two hands but I am cautiously working on that. I may only stroke her in certain locations: the kitchen, lounge or study. I may not touch her on the stairs, landing, windowsill, bathroom or any enclosed location. So I am also working on stroking her when she is sunbathing on the windowsill. Crypto has begun to let me touch her. She may need an incentive/bribe like holding a feather out to her, but sometimes she will allow herself to be touched/stroked without the bribe. Her coat is lovely and thick. Ithought before it was in poor condition - perhaps it was then. I am feeding them a different mix of catbix and maybe that gives something extra. Anyway she feels good. Crypto is still very shy but is so much better it's almost unbelievable. She has the sweetest gentlest face. She loves to sit near me and if I sit to read a book or lie on the couch, she often roosts about 3 feet from me (just out of touching distance). Neither will sit on the couch with me (much less on my knee) but given the progress so far, it'll be a happening thing. They both fly into a panic if they see me coming up the stairs while they are on the landing, or if I go into my study (a small room) and close the door and they are in the room. But they like being in the room with me, if the door is open. I am still not allowing them outside in case they don't come back, but I am more confident about their abilities to cope if they did take off. They are very fast at catching things (balls, bits of string) including flies that unwisely drift into the house. I am not dosing them on Rock Rose or Mimulus any longer and don't use the Feliway either. Time is a great healer, but it's been a hard six months.

This is an interesting thread but has gone so far off topic that it really deserves to be a standalone from say page 14. Moderators?? Geisha, I hear what you say about outsiders looking in at Christians. However can they be expected to make sense of a doctrine that doesn't make sense - to Christians? An Indian man I knew who had converted to Christianity had a strong Christian outreach with Navigators but always, as long as I knew him, had difficulties with the trinity. He now professes to have converted to becoming a Jew, because they believe in one God. Muslim =/= terrorist. Some claiming to be Muslims are terrorists. Some claiming to be Christians are also terrorists. May their God(s) have mercy on them.

Tzaia: Well, there was a line of elder Corps women. Examined one right after the other. Not much privacy. Dr R was assisted in this task by someone else, a nurse who was also in the Corps; I'd never met her before. It was very cramped in the little room in Founders Hall where this took place. So yes - there were witnesses. Pander (noun): a person who procures for another the means of gratifying his or her base passions. (vt) to act as a pander. I reckon (now I know of LCM's habits) that she was checking us out for LCM. We had to submit to a gynae/pap exam BEFORE ENTERING THE CORPS and our own doctors had to sign to say we were in good health in this regard, which form was submitted with the Corps application form. My doc was appalled at the request and simply asked if I'd had a smear test recently and took my word for it.

Thanks, DWBH, I thought that might be the case. May as well have issued the in rez corps with megaphones, or perhaps added a megaphone to the "What to Bring" list (LOL). WB, glad you got yours back. Any intereresting information could well have been copied or noted, however. Did anyone else get theirs back? If so, when - when you graduated, or as part of teh 10-year pack?

I can hardly remember this class (thank God) but certainly parts of it would have been far more appropriately taught (that's if it needed to be taught at all) by Dr Rawlins, as a gynaecologist. I have a recollection of some talk about a dog and a woman but in what I saw that had been excluded and it was, "I once saw a video of a dog and a woman, the dog wasn't interested, had more sense than the woman." Perhaps it had been remade. I do remember a lengthy consideration of the Song of Solomon and the various figures of speech for sex acts, positions, and names for parts of the body associated with the activity. The very name of the class is deceptive. Nothing about Christian Family - it was all about sex (not even "Christian sex" if there is such a thing, LOL!). In rez, Dr Rawlins did teach us something about the raising of children and breastfeeding and some stuff about kids. All that did seem to make sense at the time; whether it still would ... I dunno. Her teaching was followed by a gynaecological examination of the elder Corps women. Then, it seemed a little odd. Now, it seems like pandering.

EyesOpen: very wise to be guarded in what you wrote. See my note below. Waysider: "red herring" occurred to me, too. Haven't heard this about the CF&S questionnaire before. Ex10: I don't doubt that there could be some legitimate reason, like your autobio in college. Knowing what you have been rescued from and knowing who you are is important. But with the underbelly of TWI as now exposed, I just wonder if it had a double significance, as so much stuff to do with TWI did. My girlfriend who is now a Methodist minister trained for 3 years and had to write various essays and consider a lot of personal/emotional stuff in depth and discuss it with mentors, to see that she was suited to the ministry, but it wasn't an out-and-out expose of her life in an "autobiography" way. WW: that's horrible about Dot. Maybe she will add something on this thread. It would be ideal to use as "dog returning to vomit" ammunition, when someone was kicked out M&A, to say that they had never fully renewed their minds to the Word in the area(s) they had disclosed. My younger Corps had to prepare these autobios. Some of the Corps were a bit sensitive or guarded about some things in their past. I believe one or two had been told that they had not considered deeply enough and were told to write more detail (ie, more self-disclosure). But of course I don't know how much (or little) they had written before being prodded to write more.

Just thinking about the autobiographies, “From Birth to the Corps” which documents were required writing by in rez Corps – which task, thank goodness, wasn’t inflicted upon my Corps by the lovely Loy. The idea was, I understand, that the writers saw how God had guided and directed their life since birth; or was it, how God had helped and delivered them to this point? On several other threads, I’ve seen the suggestion that these autobiographies were used by VPW and his cronies in selecting sex victims, the victims themselves having revealed their weaknesses and areas in which they were particularly vulnerable. It’s easy to see how the information so revealed could be used as a weapon to “press the buttons” for a female who had suffered a dysfunctional or abusive family life and thereby facilitating her initiation as sexual plaything/religious prostitute. In effect, walking around with a sign over her head saying VICTIM. Male Corps would also have had to write these autobiogs. Any ideas as to their purpose? Selection of likeminded males to share/participate in the abuse – a future inner circle masquerading as “clergy”? Or to select men who could be palmed off with the abused women in a match made in…the motorcoach? Or to see that the WC comprised a sufficient number of “yes men” or dullards who would not cotton on to or object if they found out? Maybe the autobiographies could have been used to spot any person who could have been smart enough to "make trouble" had the activities of the "inner circule" become more widely known? To get rid of them early or demoralize them or humiliate them so that they could not cause trouble? Who got to read the autobiographies – officially and unofficially? DWBH, Catcup, what did you see of this? How particularly unfair. I know others who did write these things – I think my younger Corps may have had to - and the authors worked hard and suffered emotionally and dragged out all sorts of stressful stuff that they had dealt with hitherto. Only, perhaps, to have it used against them later. If someone revealed some deviant or criminal behavior in their autobiography, did that come back later and, as it were, “bite” them by being used as a weapon against them in their later years in the Corps?