Twinky

We all know the bit in Ephesians about there being apostles, prophets, evangelists, pastors and teachers set within the body for the edification of the believers. But what about this bit: 1 Cor 12:27.Now ye are the body of Christ, and members in particular. 28.And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues. 29.Are all apostles? are all prophets? are all teachers? are all workers of miracles? 30.Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret ? Where did the evangelists and pastors disappear to? Then we get into all these other things, some of which we were taught are manifestations of the spirit. What are the "helps"? The "governments"? Some people who attend the church I go to say they have the "gift of administration" which they use to serve in various rather "boring" church capacities - treasurer, organizer, secretaries, etc. They're blessed. Okay that bit was slightly off topic, but someone has raised something about it earlier. When I was a kid, aged in single digits, I was going to be a missionary and go to Africa and tell the poor people there about how good God was and what Jesus had done for them. God has such a sense of humor. It was a Nigerian who witnessed to me - in very nearly my home town! I never went out as a missionary to Africa but I did move to another country and there held out the Word, also going WoW there. I went into the Corps from there and that did derail a lot of things I'd hoped to do. Corps principle 5 - "Go forth as leaders and workers in areas of concern, interest and need" says it nicely and at the time I thought that would be areas of concern, interest and need such as - social work; being a doctor, a dentist; working in a hospital; working with underprivileged people; working in business / commerce and bringing a dose of Christian ethics to everyday life... God had opened some astonishing doors for me to train in my chosen professional area and I believe it was a Godly choice. Now that got seriously derailed when it became clear that it was areas of concern etc to TWI, and when I sought to return just on a part-time basis to my chosen profession, I got such a load of **** and condemnation heaped on me for despising the riches of my calling as Way Corps and they had cast their riches before swine and I was a dog returning to my vomit... God doesn't want us tied into something constraining. He wants us free to move and influence all levels of society, all types of people, salting anywhere and everywhere. He can work with and through anyone who has a humble heart. So yes. Seriously derailed.

Grass. Their latest thing is - grass. They have to have a small handful of fresh grass every day. This they chow into with much enthusiasm. It seems to be nearly as enjoyable as ham (sorry, Mr Squirrel!!). Can't wait till they are allowed outside. Grazing sheep? Forget it! This year's model is grazing cats. Got them a new cat scratch pole/ perching thing from Freecycle this week. They love it. Crypto the scaredy took possession immediately and beat Tuxy off. Later, from a lower perch, she attacked Tuxy from a lower perch, and grabbed Tuxy by the throat! I surmise this was not painful and may be part of some sort of play fighting they get up to anyway, as Tuxy did not seem at all bothered. Crypto is getting much more assertive and has made several attacks on Tuxy and on me, all very minor, but it is so strange that it is she who does it. Fell asleep lying on my sofa the other evening. Awoke some hours later to find Tuxedo happily asleep on my feet.

This is a difficult area, because we'd all bought into the idea (at the time) that TWI was guardian of the truth and the churches were all ds influenced. Therefore, the more anyone said, the more possessed they must have been. Therefore, the more to be disregarded. In fact, I think the "forceful indoctrination" (WW's method B) is all the more likely to keep someone dug even more deeply into TWI. The more outward looking approach of comparison and looking at other Christian movements is on face more likely to succeed but again is open to TWI filter impressions of, "It's nly succeeding because it's ds influenced." Lifted Up: sounds like they only succeeded in paralyzing you in even more fear. Not "release from your bonds." You were out before I ever got in. Can't wrote much at the moment. My TWI past caught up with me, and caught me completely by surprise, last night and I need to settle a little before I can do things coherently. Nothing to worry about.

I think I have to have my own private BBQ this year (not that November is the ideal time, here) though it just won't be the same without you wonderful lot. At least I will be able to smell the ... smoke... I can play HotSax's CD to give atmosphere. Dammit, I want a job so's I have some disposable cash.

Hey this is cool. So I can change the colors just a little. Never noticed that feature before. I have "Denim" and "Default" to choose from. When I chose Denim I got pale green and purplish; Default is blue BUT the advantage of Default is that the viewing screen is rather wider. Denim has a 1/2" gap all the way round. Weird, that. Oh, and I also get Folders and not little crosses at the left side. Which is better, because the colors are too dark and appear too similar. (edited to add the bit about folders)

There have been lots of threads started or discussing how people coped with life after TWI, people having visited therapists, psychiatrists, church groups, Alcoholics Anon, divorce groups, etc. There is another group of people who were "rescued" by friends or family and underwent "deprogramming" at the hands of (possible?) experts. Soem of those people escaped and went straight back to TWI. Some may have escaped and stayed away from TWI. Some may have escaped and returned to TWI and then left voluntarily or been thrown out later. This is a group of people whose experiences I have never seen discussed here. If you are one of this group, please will you share some of what the deprogramming was like, and its effects on your life then and now? For example: At what point did you realize TWI wasn't what it set itself up as? Did you believe the deprogrammers? Did what they said or did change your mind in any way, or just strengthen your belief in TWI as God's chosen organization? What made you leave TWI, ultimately? How do you feel now about those who gave you up to the deprogrammers? ...or whatever else you want to tell us at the Cafe.

Bump...

Dunno about all this stuff cross-stiching. Can be a great stressor when you realize you stitched something wrong several rows back and now your pattern doesn't fit together! Seriously, though, cross-stitching is very absorbing. Walking is a great release for me. Many fields and woods nearby. Always a release to walk out for a few hours and talk things over with my Dad. I also do gardening and find that very relaxing, especially after a very busy or tense day at work. If not walking, some other form of physical exercise. When I was studying for my degree, I found squash a major release. I projected my frustrations and difficulties onto the squash ball and beat the heck out of it. And if you use a computer at work, you might find it helpful to affix a photo(s) of people and/or pets and/or places that you love in the corner or stand a photo on your desk. It'll bring a smile to your face when you look at it.

Hey, I know why this thread is here! It's so WD can, almost exclusively, present his point of view, be challenged by everyone else, and thereby WD gets to say his piece, and stays off other threads (well, hopefully). You guys - you know what WD is going to say. Why do you keep rising to it?

Well! That should be interesting for WayGB. In the spirit of fairness, I wonder if Fox will have anyone from TWI to present an alternative point of view/offer comment? Ric0 M@gnelli, for instance, as PR consultant? Now that would be worth YouTubing.

Just managed to listen to the interview. I feel ill. Very ill. Kris, it is worse than revolting. Just when you think it can't get any worse, it does. I have heard some horror stories from friends who have also suffered, not just from abuse by VPW or LCM but the abuse meted out upon them by spouses. How can they do any better, when their boundaries have been so eroded by that vile man and his minions? I wonder, are there any other women out there with the turquoise rings? All feeling special?? Somebody should send a copy to WD and Oldies to read. Better yet, tie them to a chair and make them read it and not untie them until they can recite it word perfect, like they can with the Blue Book. Sorry can't write any more. Have to go and vomit. (((Kris)))

Thanks, both. Still a long way to go though. Other cats I've had (okay, been carer for) have claimed space at the foot of the bed (Twinky claimed the pillow or even one's head occasionally) but these two have a way to go before then. Once in a while Tuxy has explored my bedroom. I prefer not to let them in the rest of the house unless I can keep an eye on them. Tuxy occasionally "marks" things and I have had to throw away a red rug which she urinated on too badly to keep; and she also urinates on my coco matting near the front door, which I haul up and soak in the bath in bio washing stuff. Not so easy or light, as it is 4 ft square. They are rather idiotic at times, like: if I enter the bathroom and one or other is in there, it's a major catastrophe and they get all scatty with panic. Or if walk upstairs and they are on the landing - their eyes go wide, they freeze in terror and/or flatten themselves, and Crypto might try hissing at me (or sometimes just opening her mouth as if to hiss, too scared to make the noise!). I can't touch them on a window sill or other enclosed area but they are okay in rooms where there is space to escape. But still: that Tuxy ventures onto my lap and snuggles up by my leg is a mighty step forward. I would love to get to the Texas BBQ again this year but think it will not be possible. Maybe I should vacate the house again anyway for a few days and see what benefits that might have on the cats? Geisha: too funny. Do they give you a wash to wake you up, as well?

I have a lapcat! I have a lapcat!! Been away for a couple of days. Cats clearly missed me. One kept jumping on a stool near my armchair, just to be near me. Very fussy now. So today I sat in the middle of my couch and made encouraging noises. And Tuxy decided to investigate the couch with me on it (she will sleep on the couch if she thinks I am not around) - walked over my knees a couple of times, and has since snuggled down on my lap, beside my leg, on my lap again, purring with enthusiasm and wriggling around with sheer joy. Also nibbling at my black jeans (thanks, Ex10), which I will not be encouraging, and playing with a feather or a pen. If I move quickly she leaps off but soon leaps back on again. It's as if she has discovered some wonderful exciting place to be with endless delights of fondles. Other cat Crypto sits on a chair nearby watching the action. She can't see what the fuss is about. But she is getting friendlier and enjoys being fondled. Can't pick her up but one of the purposes of being able to pick her up was to park her in my lap, so much better if she will park herself! Interestingly while I was away the girl tending the cats for me said that Tuxy would allow herself to be groomed but not stroked with a hand; whilst Crypto (the mega-nervous one) would allow herself to be touched and stroked, a thing she has only just started to allow me to do. Okay, not a big deal really - except when you remember neither had been touched before and they spent their first three months with me hiding in the sink unit or behind the fridge! Love and patience... lotsa love and patience.

Eccl 1:9 The thing that hath been, it is that which shall be; and that which is done is that which shall be done: and there is no new thing under the sun. 10 Is there any thing whereof it may be said, See, this is new? it hath been already of old time, which was before us. 11 There is no remembrance of former things; neither shall there be any remembrance of things that are to come with those that shall come after. Let's hope the participants swiftly arrive at this conclusion: Eccl 12:12 And further, by these, my son, be admonished: of making many books there is no end; and much study is a weariness of the flesh. 13 Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man. 14 For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil.

Bump - relating to new Sowers thread that has been started recently.

Just returned from a short visit to Paris. Visited Notre Dame while I was there. This is a hugely significant church to the French people. Interestingly, right at the entrance, there is a notice in French and English - the French version stating that this is a church dedicated to the "culte catholique" - in English, Roman Catholic "religion". The word "culte" really leapt out at me! The RC church calls itself a cult!!!! A cult, or sect, if you prefer, is anything that cuts itself off from others. In the religious sense, cuts itself off from other Christians or says it has the only correct way. Whether that be in interpretation of the scriptures, or in practise, doesn't matter. All are works of the flesh. Galatians 5:20 idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions Factions in some versions is "sects". [Middle English secte, from Old French, from Latin secta, course, school of thought, from feminine past participle of sequī, to follow; see sekw-1 in Indo-European roots.] Kernerman English Multilingual Dictionary sect [sekt] noun a group of people within a larger, especially religious, group, having views different from those of the rest of the group

Interesting thread, this. Can so relate. LCM told us that the Bible had nothing to say to "cop outs" - nothing but reproof, and that they needed to get back to the Household (read, TWI). And who wants EVEN MORE "reproof" after what had probably been said when they got kicked out? If ever I tried to read the Bible afterwards, I saw nothing but misery, at what an appalling specimen of a believer I was, how far short of the mark... you name it. You've probably been there too. Now, my enthusiasm is back and I read in many different versions. NIV is just plain weird at times so don't like it. The Message is good for a really brisk look that is radically different. My preferred is a Holman Bible ("The Passion Bble") which reads well and appears accurate on translations of various words where it seems to matter. Can't stand KJV, the text of which my eyes just brush over. I had put this down to over-familiarity but who knows, maybe it is some "veil". I do know that God sent a number of other Christians to hold forth a different version of Christian love to me but I would have nothing to do with them, because obviously they were doctrinally suspect (being trinitarians) and dngerous to me. That suspicion of other Christians is a part of the "Satanic blindness" also, or at least, one of his tricks. Divide and conquer. Keep sufferers in a state of misery and suspicious of others in the Body. I have recently got to know some women, the daughters of an elderly friend, and the friend married into, and her daughters were raised in, the Plymouth Brethren. They also have quite significant problems even now, over 20 years later, with some aspects of relating to other Christians and some teachings. But they all have wonderful hearts to love and serve God and are all committed to "kingdom work" in the different churches they have now all chosen for themselves. I only add this so that TWI ex-cultists know they aren't the only sufferers. These women also have their own "blindness" which they are overcoming. They respect the strong teaching of the Bible and the knowledge of the verses of the Bible, but not the practice or the emphases of their cult. Like us with TWI.

Acts 5:29 Then Peter and the other apostles answered and said, We ought to obey God rather than men. Uh...where did this get overruled? Ah, got it! When TWI replaced itself as God and the Prez as the MOGFODAT, surplanting Jesus. I think to go beyond Biblical principle would require some explicit "revelation" from God. Disregard of principle should not become the norm. I'm thinking of an OT example where a prophet asked another to hit him (where hitting other people is not the norm). In the NT, when Gentiles were beginning to accept Christ, a lot of the old Jewish religious laws were broken (eg, eating with Gentiles). But (for example) to go beyond the clear teaching that adultery is wrong is not the norm. This is clearly laid out in both OT and NT. If God really wants an individual to do something radically different from what is written, he is smart enough to make sure that individual knows. Not sure what "bad things" you are saying were "ordered" - most of the bad stuff wasn't ordered so much as alluded to, shown by example, or praised. They also relied heavily on the "higher powers" stuff in Rom 13. When one's barriers are so completely broken down, and coupled with the maxim that the suggestion of a general is tantamount to a command, and there is fertile ground for some of the abuses in TWI with hitting children and wives.TWI also taught, "be exceptional, don't expect to be an exception." I understand your viewpoint about higher authority (responsibility to God). While God is not tied by man's laws, he also isn't so stupid as to expect his people to flagrantly flout legality on a whim. To do an apparently bad thing in the face of clear instruction otherwise would be very exceptional (thinking here of say - 2 Sam 20:21 The matter is not so: but a man of mount Ephraim, Sheba the son of Bichri by name, hath lifted up his hand against the king, even against David: deliver him only, and I will depart from the city. And the woman said unto Joab, Behold, his head shall be thrown to thee over the wall. 22 Then the woman went unto all the people in her wisdom. And they cut off the head of Sheba the son of Bichri, and cast it out to Joab. And he blew a trumpet, and they retired from the city, every man to his tent. And Joab returned to Jerusalem unto the king. - where the murder (execution?) of a rebel was praised.) Can't comment from the point of view of a soldier, Christian or otherwise, in combat; but in normal day to day living the norm would be to live within one's culture and God will make it very clear when culture is to be disregarded. And if any sort of Christian leadership, whether TWI or some church, goes beyond the laws of the land, God will make that clear. He is not, however, going to go in the face of his own laws! Good on you for resisting the wresting of the scriptures. You were the one standing for God; not the splinter group leader.

Portable webcam is easier than one on a laptop for showing the mad bits of action!!! Anyone who doesn't want to be seen can stay out of range. But hey it's only me! I enjoyed your happy smiling faces last year! I will have to get some stuff in to make mojitos unless EyesOpen can squeeze something down the airwaves!

Thank you Tom, very kind of you to say so. Had another go today and this is what came out: Type 1: The Reformer. The rational, idealistic type. (-10) Type 2: The Helper. The caring, nurturing type. (9) Type 3: The Motivator. The adaptable, success-oriented type. (4) So I guess I must be a "Helper" (ha ha ha) - If only my former boss thought so as well. You know what? I just ENJOY LIFE nowadays.

HEY!!! Sorry, Oldies, no way I'm going back (runs screaming in opposite direction)

Using one's brain.

Ex10, have you figured out how to get Skype yet? And a portable webcam? Hey, I wanna see all the fun!!!!!!! (I wanna be there, but that's another matter...) So don't forget to send me a doggie-bag!

I think I failed this! Answer was nothing like what I think I am. Ha ha. But I do know that I have mellowed out A LOT since I left a rather strident organisation and started to relax and enjoy life again. I am the "caring, nurturing" type (10) follwed by "intuitive and reserved" (7) , a lousy reformer and a lousy thinker . But maybe I'll be something different tomorrow or a different time of day. Heck, anyone who knows me wouldn't exactly call me "reserved". And they would say that I "think too much".

Maybe this earlier thread is also of interest (touched on in this thread): http://www.greasespotcafe.com/ipb/index.php?showtopic=17835