Twinky

I never heard of them before, but they have great Brit accents. I have given up listening to the news. Makes me want to stick my head in something and crunch it (my head). I guess not having a job (market slowdown!!) and having a mortgage to pay isn't helping. But in reality all my needs are met - life itself, health, food, a roof over my head, some savings (being eked out very carefully), a garden to grow things in, and people who love me. Some good true friends. Best of all: peace of mind. We all have a lot to be thankful for and it's better to focus on that.

You're assuming they have any money left, to get drunk with. Anyway George, are you enforcing a two-drink limit at the BBQ? Oops derailed my own thread... Haven't even had a drink yet. Just wait about an hour...

A slight deviation from topic: Now come on, Ham... you know they were teaching you how to serve. Anyway, as you know, you can still learn to serve (or work). The tradition continues. Seems those "students" at McM's farm are doing just the same. But I don't think they get a pseudo degree, Bachelor's or Associate's, at the end of it. BTW some of the Corps sponsorship when I was in was given back to the in rez Corps, at the rate of $30 per month spending money. I guess the rest went to provide board and lodging. At the McM farm, they get free board and lodgings and have to provide for all of their expenses themselves. They don't "pay to work there."

It may be a very good idea to look at the Word together. If you have enough background to show her some alternative viewpoints or show her other scriptures, you will at least be keeping her critical thinking skills alive. TWI presents its information very "pat" and she will have an answer for everything. She will probably welcome the opportunity to share with you ("receive, retain, release"). TWI is (or was) hot on confrontation and sharply rebuking the adversary - in other words, she may speak sharply to you if you present something other than what lines up with TWI doctrine. TWI is very poor on compassion and empathy. You can make a difference here. Do take up Brushstroke on his offer of help. He's only young but he makes some really good and thoughtful points, and clearly sees through the BS that permeates TWI doctrine. BTW there will be some stuff that is accurate, true, a proper representation of what God's heart for his people is. Choose your horse carefully when you query doctrine from TWI. If your current handle is your real name, you might want to change it if you plan on bringing her to the Cafe. She may feel seriously spied upon or that you are talking behind her back, and she will cease to trust you. I can't quite remember how to do that, but if you emailed Paw or the moderators, they would be able to tell you or do it for you.

Geisha, your stories are a hoot! I am laughing and tears are pouring from my eyes. Sheep whispering...Chicken whispering... ...husband whispering?? The interests of Spotters are very varied. They never taught this stuff in the Corps!

I know, Lifted Up, I don't mean it seriously. I just wish that some people didn't have quite such an ostrich attitude. It seems pretty plain to me that there has been significant suffering at the hands of TWI. Perhaps it is the magnitude of it that makes it so difficult to swallow. All of us thought TWI was The Best, at one time. Glad that Kris has managed to deal with her history.

Tuxedo got her first outdoor excursion this week. This was fun...not. I recently Freecycled a little blue cat harness and lead. Have not been able to get this on her before but managed to do so on Friday. Tuxy endured it for a while. Actually she lay rigid on the bed occupied by my Mum, who was visiting. When I let her loose in the kitchen, she backed away from the harness and lead, unsuccessfully, of course. This upset Crypto, who also backed off, hissing at me and growling and all the hairs on her back standing up. All she was aware of is that Tuxy was upset. I wanted Tuxy to have a "reward" after her ordeal of wearing the harness and to associate it with something pleasant. So after a while I picked her up and took her outside. Held her and let her sniff a bit then set her on the grass. She immediately bolted for the nearest cover (a bush) and refused to come out. She looks so like Catcup's avatar!! After 20 mins, she hadn't emerged or explored at all so I hauled her out and set her on my lap on the garden seat. She immediately leapt off and squished herself on the concrete. After a while she sidled off and hid behind a large fern and a small shrub in pots near the door. And so she remained. A little disappointing from my point of view: I expected her to enjoy sniffing round but she didn't. And she was very wary of me for the rest of the day. But she has recovered from this and has allowed me to put her on my lap many times since. I will be persevering with the harness for a while until I am sure she is happy outside and not likely to run off and not return. As for an excursion for Crypto - that might be a long time coming. Picked her up one day and she was so terrified I had to set her down immediately.

Quest for the truth? I don't think so. I think VPW sat through somebody else's class(es) and then just took the information, lock stock and barrel, and put it under his own name. He didn't even bother to disguise it by using a different version of the Bible, say, RSV or NASB. There are much better versions of the Bible available than KJV, which was subject to political interference at the time it was compiled. Also since it was compiled, the research of others has shed light on difficult wording or mistranslations. In later versions, something may be expressed in a way that has impact in our lives today but KJV hides. I think he used KJV because he could set himself up as a teacher of old English too. (For those still in doubt - his English was appalling and he did not understand certain English expressions or pronunciations, especially as they were used a long time ago.) If he had even studied just a little Shakespeare (most of whose works are approximately contemporary with KJV), he would have a better understanding of how words were used at that time. VPW didn't use KJV because it's "the best" version - he used it to obscure the Bible, by making it hard to understand. Then he could put his own interpretation on it. Having discouraged people from looking into other versions, he had free rein to invent things. PFAL is set up to present the Bible as being The Only book that one needs to check. It's absolutely right and we just need to be able to reconcile accounts. So PFAL says, quite early on, giving a really simple account. God protected these books because these are what He wanted us to have. Or some such line. But - not necessarily at PFAL stage - how about some teaching some time (yet another class!!) of how we actually got to get that book? The scholarly debates about authenticity? How we came by some of the books or scrolls? The Dead Sea Scrolls (discovered after BG Leonard put his class together) - and there are other ancient texts - When information about those started to come to light, wouldn't a "research and teaching ministry" at least consider if there was anything we might need to know about? (Some of them back up the ancientness of the texts but other scrolls seem to go in a different direction.) As to archaeology - it doesn't necessarily back up the Biblical version, and often doesn't. As to contemporaneous records (Roman records, Josephus), where was any research and teaching on that? How about instruction in Greek by native Greek speakers? How about instruction in Hebrew by Israeli or Jewish speaker - but am I right in thinking that they themselves had to re-learn Hebrew because it had become basically a dead language? How about some discussion/teaching by one or more rabbis or other Jewish experts? At least, teach the Corps this stuff! But to introduce guest speakers or authentic teaching courses, at any level, would necessarily require the students to engage critical thinking skills. And PFAL was a crammer that from the outset overrode critical thinking skills. Things were either black or white. No rainbow palette, no choice, nothing but fundamentalism. And - as some here have posted - if "The Truth is not a What but a Who" - he hadn't a chance of teaching that because he simply didn't know the Lord Jesus. He certainly didn't quest after knowing him.

Ah yes. Sunday trading laws. Once upon a time you could buy a pound of carrots at the furniture store for some three or four figure sum, and it came complete with free sofa and armchairs... Beer is what? Fruit juice? Mineral water??

Mine are all in another country but I need to make a decision to biff or ship them. I really don't want to give house room to the things. The only reason I would keep them is to work them through with a view to seeing what if anything is true, really true, so far as I can now ascertain. And sometimes better to follow a thread at GSC. But do I want to spend that much time on them - or just start afresh? Doesn't just looking at them and considering them really inadvertently glorify that man? (He wouldn't have "cop out" materials in the Bookstore.) And I don't want LCM's Red Thread. AoS has already met a fiery doom. Raf, congratulations on being free. Are you "traveling lighter" now?

George - you will have to talk to EyesOpen about the mojitos...she makes 'em pretty good! Anyway at Ex10's last year we were yarning away ... until people went back to their hotels for breakfast. I think maybe they were on breakfast and bed, rather than bed and breakfast.

Tonto! Happy birthday!! God's rich blessings on your life. Have a wonderful day. Twinx

Dooj - funny video. We'd all had spiritual lobotomies anyway. Seth - you think the purpose of the two-drink limit was to give us another rule? So they could beat us up for breaking it? WG, Waysider - a no-drink limit? I don't recall that on its precursor, the WoW field. So - no witnessing in bars, then? RumRunner - exactly; what you drink in private shouldn't be of concern. Unless it made you completely "out of oder." Maybe Seth is right. Make another rule, then you can beat on someone for breaking it. Pharisee-ism. Maybe it wasn't about the money [that TWI didn't get] after all. Heck, one of the fruits of the spirit is supposed to be temperance or self-control. Looks like they didn't trust the holy spirit in us. Whereas those who enjoyed debauchery (a work of the flesh) knew they couldn't trust their "holy spirit" and needed a rule to control their habits. Gal 5 in The Message is pretty cute. Or shocking. :)

Matilda, absolutely, it's a good idea to drink moderately, and alcohol fuels far too many dangerous or foolish situations. And a designated driver for a group night out is also a good idea. Sticking to two drinks on an evening out (the scenario as presented was, one drink as an aperitif, followed by one glass of wine with one's meal) is a good plan. But to enforce it legalistically? Works! Requiring the substituting of someone's judgment for one's own (a well-known TWI habit). Particularly if there are favorites who are exempt from the rule - ie, not a "top down" example (I guess the higher-ups - such as HiWay mentions - would be "spiritually mature" in more ways than one? LOL). HiWay, your tale sounds typical Way double-speak and maybe you want to start your own thread to enlighten us. What I'm wondering on this thread is whether it was not just an attempt to restrict our imbibing and enjoyment of alcohol, but also an effort to ensure that we had more available cash to support TWI.

One of the WC rules was the two-drink limit. You could not have more than two alcoholic drinks. That would be per day. There were two given explanations for this rule: 1. You needed to stay under the legal limit for drinking in case you needed to go out unexpected in your car to help someone. 2. To drink more may mean that you were less in control of your mind and might thereby let in devil spirits. And it was enforced. I know Corps who have been dropped for drinking more than two beers. Given the reports of the glorious leader who allegedly enjoyed his Drambuie on frequent occasions and in amounts well exceeding the two drink limit, it’s just another example of one standard for them and one for everyone else. But now I’m wondering if the real reason is something else: alcohol costs money. And if the money was drunk (by purchase of a bottle or two or three of one’s favorite bevvy), that money could not be sent to the great coffer in Ohio. I doubt really that most people would go overboard but to enforce so strictly (read, legalistically) this rule is just another example of love of money overriding love for people. Anyone else got any thoughts?

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=mzJmTCYmo9g

Be interesting to see after all this exposure and ridicule whether they try some different sort of dance routine for their next round of song/dances, especially for the bigger events - the forthcoming anniversary weekend? The New Year Watchnight?

Oh. Really. Hnph.

Laugh in their faces, Jeff. It's a real "turn the cheek" opportunity. It's very good that your son is banned from seeing this group and learning such dreadful behavior. You have a great opportunity to show him what being a man is and exercising self-control. He he, I got myself M&A'd by a wannabe splinter group. It was too funny. I couldn't believe how pathetic the leader was. He had a crony there as a witness while he showed off being the big man. Ha ha, everyone else is laughing at him too, now. And nobody but him marks or avoids me. This one and the one that went gunning for you are no better than schoolyard bullies. But far more pathetic. Live life to the full! Here, have a drink on me -

Oh come on, Oldies. You know he thought TWI (=himself) was the only place capable of "rightly dividing the Word." You know he disparaged churches and religious organizations of all sorts. You know he mocked those who gave to other organizations and didn't put their tithe in the place best able to use it (=TWI). Yes, he said that about the Mormons in CSBP. He said, they tithed and they were prosperous. The implication was clear, they gave to their own organization. Which became rich. But then he said or at least implied that one would "get more" if the money were handed over to the organization "rightly dividing" the Word.

Still probably a no but George - have you got Skype?

Extracted from John Juedes's paper: Well, at least they are now talking about net income. Doesn't Christians Should be Prosperous talk about gross income? If tithing off the net income, the logic was, then you were putting the government and man's taxes and demands before giving to God and what was legally due to him. Then at some stage (early 90s??) without any teaching that I can recall, but subtly somehow, it became permissible to give 10% of net income. But about the same time, the ABS required booted up to 15%. So in fact they got about the same amount either way.

Aren't these guys back in the US now? You're welcome to them.

Here's a recipe: http://www.bbc.co.uk/food/recipes/database...ypie_1318.shtml This recommends puff pastry but you can also make it with ordinary short pastry too. Lots of variations on the theme. Try it with a baked potato and some carrots. Me, I'd have Savoy cabbage or Brussels sprouts as well. To follow, and because you already have the oven on: a creamy thick rice pudding. Yum yum. Very good winter stick-to-the ribs stuff.

Hey Chas, how'd the visit go? I don't remember seeing anything you posted. Hope it was a success.