Twinky

Before TWI would take anyone back, the person had to be humbled (read, totally humiliated), confessing to all sorts of crimes against God (read, TWI) - crimes both real and imagined. The person had to show how contrite he/she was. Physical flagellation wasn't quite the thing, but a sort of mental and spiritual flagellation was. This took the form, usually, of a grovelling letter to LCM and/or the Trustees. This letter may be read out to Corps, staff, or anybody else deemed "need to know" (read, need to understand what would happen to them if they stepped out of line) and analyzed to see that it contained the correct amount of contrition and jargon. Then, if allowed back, there was a period of probatiion. This was a suspicious watching of everything done - to see that the "weakness" that caused the original downfall was healed. Okay... Let's see... Where is TWI's letter of self-abasement? Where they totally confess their crimes (just the real ones will do). Where they apologize again and again. Where every high-up, starting with Rosie, admitted publicly what they had done in the past to abuse God and the people of TWI (past and present). Not thinking about just the sexual misconduct - what about the bullying, control, stifling of individuality? Next, let's see this letter subjected to public scrutiny, so that past and present TWI-fers can determine if they really are contrite. Let's see how they propose to rectify their past sins. Next, let's see how they progress during probation and whether they are responsive to further condemnation, sorry, help; and how they behave then. The period of probation hasn't started yet, because there has been no confession of past wrongdoing. Let them set the example. Then there might be something worth looking at and considering. Till then - RUUUUN!!!

Well, you could try telling her that TWI is dead against anything that affects the mind, or might open up the mind to devil spirits (hence the two-drink rule). She will probably say something along the lines of, "It's grace, we can do what we like." That would authorize her smoking pot. Although TWI might have had roots in the 60s pot and pop culture, it's certainly not there now. Pot would be a serious no-no when I was in. In fact, even smoking ordinary cigarettes was a major no-no and Corps people were dismissed for smoking. One of those unwritten rules. I think on the good side, it might show she has a streak of rebellion/independence that means she will shuck off TWI once she gets to [her university]. TWI and its hangers-on may lose their appeal against so much other new stuff.

My pumpkin soup is always different but basically along the following lines: Chop an onion up small Simmer onion in a little oil until translucent but not brown Add garlic if desired; be careful not to burn - add towards end of cooking period for onions Chuck in pumpkin diced into 1" cubes Add water to cover the pumpkin Add herbs or spices as desired Simmer until pumpkin is soft (about 20-30 mins) Mash it all up Add more hot water if it's too thick BUT there are variations on a theme Original recipe called for chicken stock but I dislike the taste of the stock cube. I made some recently and cut some bacon up and fried gently with the onion, then added the pumpkin and rest of ingredients. It was deliciously rich in flavor, and surprisingly sweet, from the bacon. This version was particularly well received. Have not tried adding other meats, but would go well with chicken or pork, probably. Or venison. Other veg can be included - say carrots - or whatever you want - but potato will dull the flavor. A little red wine is nice and tasty but the soup loses its lovely orange color. It's nice with garlic, ginger, most spices, a pinch or so of curry powder... Garnish, perhaps, with a swirl of yoghurt and a pinch of fresh herbs. Nice with crusty warm bread (yum!)

This topic has meandered off track, somewhat, though it remains very interesting. Is it worth, I wonder, asking the mods if the later part of the discussion about salvation can be split off? Certainly if the people are the Bride of Christ (various epistles) and the Bride is the city (Revelation) and the city of the New Jerusalem is the people (Juedes), we would not be looking at a Salvation which can dissipate. That would give us a city that was built of uncertain materials. Or is the city ONLY the faithful ones? Not just those who got born again and then fell away, distracted by earthly pleasures? I don't think it's so easy to get "born again" as TWI (and many churches) would have us think. The emphasis on "confess with thy mouth" was acknowledged more than "believe in thine heart" which is a deeply profound action which may take years to achieve (or then again, it may not; for some it will be a quick decision). I'm thinking of the OT servant/slave who had 7 years to decide whether to serve his master on a permanent basis, before making the commitment and having his master's seal fitted to his ear lobe. The trouble with figures of speech is always taking the figure too far, farther than it was intended to be taken. Staying faithful brings in other doctrine(?) like "crowns" of reward, which is beyond the scope of "Bride or Body?" A city would comprise a number of people at various stages of development. Some would be elderly, mature folk; some would be born only last week. Some might be (spiritual) kids in the "terrible two" age range. They are all citizens. Other citizens would be those who have journeyed away for a while (maybe those who have "lapsed" or "backslidden" or otherwise are doing different things?). Unbelieving spouses and children are also "sanctified" (1 Cor 7:14) - are they also part of this Bride/city? Or just the believing spouse/parent?

GC, what are the following: Pumpkin pie spice = ?cloves, nutmeg, cinnamon? Some combination of whatever one fancies. All purpose flour is (I think) plain flour (no raising agent) Shortening = some kind of fat - butter? margarine? lard? Dooj, look forward to your recipes!

I just found this on the Way Corps site, where John Lynn has a blog and was discussing this letter, which is posted in full: Haven't seen that he posted that here at the Cafe. So Ralph is to blame for John's letter, huh? Hmmm...

xxxxx went back? Well, I guess he'll come back here in a few months. When the shine has worn off a little. Edited by ModRocker to remove GS member's name.

xxxxx went back to TWI? Okay, see him here again in a few months. Edited by ModRocker to remove GS member's name.

From his Sword of the Spirit website: And history repeats itself… Same information also appears on his racing cars website except he omits the second part of the first para, and the second para, about AoG. If he is "Still holding to all Assemblies of God tenets of faith," it's reasonable to ask why he needs an "independent ministry" outside the auspices of AoG. Maybe they kicked him out. Maybe he had some difficulty getting his hands on all that lovely money. Maybe they didn't like his racing cars. Is anybody at the Café smart enough to hack into his website and put a link to the Café and a link to John Knapp’s psych get-the-cult-out-of-your-head website? BTW I'm very sorry for the son who got kicked out, M&A'd, shunned, call it what you will. 16 is too young to cast your son adrift. But it might be the best thing that happened to the lad. Release from his prison, as it were. It sounds as though he has some sense, disobeying his father and all.

Does anyone have a nice recipe for pumpkin pie? Or other pumpkin things? I have a pumpkin cheesecake recipe which is delicious. Technically I think what I tend to use is called a squash - big, pale green skin, not quite spherical but slightly squashed (hence the name?) but solid and filled with vivid orange flesh. Makes delicious soup, roasts nicely. This vege (really a fruit) is not really well known in Brit cooking but every time I've cooked and served any kind of pumpkin/ squash recipe it's always been received with surprised interest and pleasure.

gc, you don't just need grass but any kind of vege waste. Prunings, kitchen stuff, whatever. Forsythia won't compost (I tried one year and it just rooted in the compost bin!). I don't use my grass clippings because of the dandelion fragments in it (they'll grow!). This time of year is good for making leaf mold - stuff black bin liners with leaves, poke a few holes in the bin liner, and leave for a couple of years. My Brussels sprouts are struggling on - the caterpillars got the main leaves, so there isn't much to provide nourishment for the little sprouts but they are still growing, slowly. My Savoy cabbages are doing well. Leeks are also growing. One Kale is doing fine, the others also suffered from caterpillars and are even now less vigorous. My chard (perpetual spinach) is thriving and I am having to give it away. The runner beans are gone now, of course, perished with the first frost, and the browned pods are still hanging there with stock for next year :-) I have acquired lots of apples which I have stored and hope to be able to keep for a few months. gc, you don't just need grass but any kind of vege waste. Prunings, kitchen stuff, whatever. Forsythia won't compost (I tried one year and it just rooted in the compost bin!). I don't use my grass clippings because of the dandelion fragments in it (they'll grow!). This time of year is good for making leaf mold - stuff black bin liners with leaves, poke a few holes in the bin liner, and leave for a couple of years. My Brussels sprouts are struggling on - the caterpillars got the main leaves, so there isn't much to provide nourishment for the little sprouts but they are still growing, slowly. My Savoy cabbages are doing well. Leeks are also growing. One Kale is doing fine, the others also suffered from caterpillars and are even now less vigorous. My chard (perpetual spinach) is thriving and I am having to give it away. The runner beans are gone now, of course, perished with the first frost, and the browned pods are still hanging there with stock for next year :-) I have acquired lots of apples which I have stored and hope to be able to keep for a few months. Still have to put the daffs and tulip bulbs in - should have been in at least a month ago. I may be able to extend the vege garden a little for next year, having removed 4 leylandii from my "shrubbery" but I might plant other taller stuff there instead - screening from the road for my lawn, patio and kitchen.

Oops, somehow a double post with the following.

I'd go someplace where the people seem to have a genuine love of God. Even if they worship a little differently. Any church may be the right place for a while, and then if you are not learning/growing, it may be time to move on. You belong to the Lord Jesus Christ and to God. You do not belong to a church, a minister/vicar/pastor, or to a denomination. I don't like some of the songs at the church where I go, but the vicar is awesomely good and preaches a sermon that is always tender yet always challenging. Simple, I don't get there at 11 am when it starts; I turn up at 11.10 or 11.15. Nobody says a thing to me about being "late." There's no "ten minutes early" rule at this church. If I felt like it, I would leave early also but in fact the sermon has usually got me thinking and I like to spend time quietly there in the midst of everyone else. The vicar preached a sermon from 2 Cor about separating ourselves and what it is to be holy. He took quite a long time (more than usual) at about 30 mins. You know, I learned more from that than from a whole year of LCM's the "Way of Holiness" theme.

The story about Corrie Ten Boom and her forgiveness of the Nazi is a wonderful story, thank you for reminding me of it. The essence is, he sought her out and begged for forgiveness. If people do not seek you out and don't expect forgiveness, or expect it but never show repentance or offer a genuine apology ... that's something different. This morning I was reading the story of the forgiving father/prodigal son. Son had made up his mind to grovel and not seek any of his former glory or status. He had humbled himself, so he was exalted. There are enough threads about forgiveness here at the Cafe to know that this is an issue for a lot of people. If there are former "hurters" here and they are willing to humble themselves, it's appropriate to forgive and move on. Though the urge might be to give them a face melting back or recount the misery they caused. Think it'd be good to see them demonstrate some true humility, though. And let's see some compassion from them, too.

Not to mention how many people they have wounded, spiritually and emotionally. But there are enough threads about that.

GC, you sound like my sort of person. Gordon Ramsey? Surprised if anyone can find room in the kitchen for a cooker and his ego. He's the one that fries everything with his hot and salty language, isn't he? English fish and chips are wonderful - and even that is a dish with regional variations. Up north the chips are often (or used to be) fried in lard which gives them a wonderful texture. However most places nowadays use vege oils. The fish used varies. Also up north they are very fond of mushy peas, which I think Ex10 has commented on at the beginning of the thread. In some areas curry sauce is offered as well or instead (yeuk). TLB, can you see the roast pork and apple sauce I've waving at you?

Well I might be finding out about someone soon. I forgive him I forgive him I forgivehim Iforgivehim Iforgive If I say it enough maybe I won't get so outraged at his behavior.

Jeff, you seem to be getting some good advice here. Couple of things occurred to me: 1. You can really help him develop his critical thinking skills (sounds like he's doing pretty well for a five year old) 2. He can see the close-mindedness of his mother's group and if he takes it to heart, he will never fall into a cult, or into cult mentality, himself!

Cadbury's chocolate is made in the US by Hershey. Not a patch on the Brit variety, nothing like as smooth and not so much flavor. Pizza is very boring but I will give you Americans credit on deep pan pizza, which I first discovered in Boston, Mass - delicious. GC, what have you enjoyed most about Brit cooking, apart from your mum-in-law's roast dinners? I made my Christmas cakes a couple of weeks ago. A very heavy fruit cake. C cakes are often topped with marzipan and icing, but I don't like either, so my cakes are just topped with glace cherries and brazil nuts or almonds, arranged prettily. There is about 3 lb fruit in each 8" cake with just enough cake mixture (flour, eggs, that molasses again, brown sugar and other goodies) to hold the fruit together. The fruit is soaked for a couple of days in brandy. Over the next few weeks I will be sprinkling a little brandy over the cakes. By the end of December they are lush! It is so rich that only a very small slice is perfectly satisfying. There are several cakes and I give them away to very special people, as seasonal gifts. I still have a tiny slice left from last year's cake (made Oct 2007) which I am saving for...why exactly am I saving it?

Funny, Mark! That there are a load of magazines called "The Way" shows non-exclusivity and therefore no infringement. Specially since there is no element of confusion. The Way (Jesuits) is in the UK where TWI is not (or not sufficiently). The Way (Canadian mag) is in Canada, again where TWI is not (or not sufficiently). The Way (Jesuits) are not known enough in the USA and not "published" there. SO nocause of action. In any event, TWI only fights through the court people littler than them. Thought it was interesting that The Way (Jesuits) give a potted history until 1986. A date which is clearly significant to more than one Way organization.

Maybe Ron can't let us know??

Agreed, White Dove, but these are the verses that they used that I heard: Mt 5:25 Agree with thine adversary quickly, whiles thou art in the way with him; lest at any time the adversary deliver thee to the judge, and the judge deliver thee to the officer, and thou be cast into prison And particularly: 1 Corinthians 6:1-8 1 Dare any of you, having a matter against another, go to law before the unjust, and not before the saints? 2 Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters? 3 Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life? 4 If then ye have judgments of things pertaining to this life, set them to judge who are least esteemed in the church. 5 I speak to your shame. Is it so, that there is not a wise man among you? no, not one that shall be able to judge between his brethren? 6 But brother goeth to law with brother, and that before the unbelievers. 7 Now therefore there is utterly a fault among you, because ye go to law one with another. Why do ye not rather take wrong? why do ye not rather suffer yourselves to be defrauded? 8 Nay, ye do wrong, and defraud, and that your brethren In any event, we were all so conditioned that it was us who were copped out, useless, such failures – why would we argue against the MoG who had such wonderful insight) (barf) Like a wife beaten by her husband – we’d become conditioned to believe it was our fault. Specially when we were beaten up by Bible verses. As such we had no right to complain, much less sue.

I don't think the mother cat was abusive of her babies. But she was taken into the CPL as being "uncontrollable". CPL just thought it was a fat cat, but a couple of days later, the kittens were born. We had a little cat once which had a litter of 3. She so loved her babies, that she was keen for us to see them, inspect them, handle them - when the kittens were only a day old. That's fairly amazing. These two... Tuxy is mewing away. She has just walked off (using the litter tray, perhaps). Crypto is sitting her normal 4 f away, gazing at me. At least Tuxy is not whining her piercing whine. They just escaped into the other half of my house, up into the bedrooms, Tuxy as ever the ringleader. She whined at the door till I opened it and then Crypto shot downstairs. Tuxy does tell me where Crypto is, if she has gone missing. But they are now safely back downstairs. I don't want to beat Tuxy though I have come very close. Once early in the piece I did hit her hard when she weed on the carpet. You can tell from this thread that it had the desired effect --- not.

Well done, didn't realise you had been an innie. You've been here long enough to know the kind of things we've had to deal with. You'll probably go through some of it, too. You know you are not alone, what you might feel is actually in the "normal" range. You are not a grease spot, God will never leave you or forsake you, nor will he beat you up or refuse to listen to you. Maybe you can listen to him a bit better now (LOL). TWI can only control you to the extent that you let them. No more intimidation from "leadership"=no more control. Be at peace. There is so much more to life than TWI; in fact, TWI was leeching the life out of you.

Ham, not taken too soon; not soon enough. Mother cat was violently aggressive - defensive of her new babes - person tending them could not handle the kittens. She managed to give 2 pairs of them away when they were several months old and they have made reasonable cats. Mother was then very defensive of the remaining two (mine) - the Cats' Protection League woman who had them from birth has the scars to prove it. My cats have inherited the scaredness of their mother. They're scared of they don't-know-what. Underneath the exterior behavior I think they're quite affectionate and like me. Would love to let them have the run of the house but I can't cope with the potential mess (pee location). She has peed in my study on the couch cushions and a rug, pooed on couch cushions twice, and peed on the coir mat by the front door many times. She has been upstairs on occasion but I simply daren't trust her. Oh here she is, come to visit. Miaowing. Wants something (food?). My nose tells me litter tray needs attention.