Twinky

Friend has had lots of these little moley things removed. It started a couple of years ago; frightened me at first, now it's no big deal. Some he has had removed by minor surgery (like you) - others by some sort of cream rubbed in (like GSG mentions). Nobody thought about covering the skin/avoiding sun exposure 30 or 40 years ago - everyone wanted to be tanned (read, burned to a crisp). Now we realize how deep fried the skin really was. It might be "commonplace" but it still makes you think. You've survived this; you may well find other lesions over the next few months or years. Every day is a bonus; what are you going to do to make your "extra time" worthwhile? Even though it's easily treated - make every day a special day. :) Be thankful! :) :)

That's your killer question, Mike? :blink: You know the answer. And it's not PFAL.

Do not expect to be served? Don't tell me that means that high-ups don't get Grounds to tend their gardens; Multi-Services to shift their furniture or redecorate or clean the pool; Food Services to prepare their food; Housekeeping to clean the bathroom, etc? No personal servants selected from the in rez Corps any more, or is the in rez Corps too small for that luxury? Getting out to fellowships sounds unpleasantly controlling. If my local leader had turned up at my fellowship, I would have been delighted. If higher-up leadership had turned up - to begin with, once I'd've felt honored - but later, I'd've wondered what I'd done wrong and how hard I was going to be kicked. And to boot, do they expect a "gift" by way of thanking them for visiting? Or is, I think you said some time ago, that sort of gift is now banned?

From what I've picked up from the few innies who post here - yes, it's changed. From frantic hell-raising yell and outrageous outbursts from LCM, to dead boring lectures from Rosie's henchmen. But what it's like to live there nowadays... to serve on staff... to be in rez... to be closeted away from "real life"... to be away from other Christians, other opinions, other input... (shrug) ?

Seems like a reasonable article to me. The strength of some of the objections to it comes quite possibly from some semblance to the Renewed Mind class or similar. What were we taught? You can't stop a bird roosting in a tree but you can stop it nesting? Something like that? When we continually think negatives (or even "worldly" thoughts), that's what we come to expect. And sometimes we act on that expectation. It becomes normal. It seems easy to think about doing something mean to someone we don't like. Picking a fight with a colleague at work that we don't particularly like. Or fancying someone we shouldn't get close to (perhaps because married). Watching violent movies on TV. Then that sort of behavior becomes "normal". It seems less easy to think about doing something nice to someone - especially someone we don't like. Instead of blessing them, we look for ways to do the opposite. We don't remember our colleague's kindness, just a hasty remark at a busy time. We don't remember how kind our spouse/partner is, and how attractive we thought he/she was; we chase a fantasy. We don't watch movies about generosity in time of need, we look at what causes the need - war, or what have you. It's just as easy to "practice" doing nice things as doing unpleasant things. This is a good way to guard one's thoughts: Philippians 4:8 [Holman Standard version] It's an abuse to stamp on genuine concerns (like various TWI programs or behavior) in the name of "not thinking evil" - and that's not what "guarding one's thoughts" is about. The ones stamping on genuine concerns are in fact the ones thinking evil. Oh, and it's not "head in the sand" either. Guarding one's thoughts doesn't mean ignoring what's going on all around, it means thinking about them realistically, and remembering God's goodness at the same time. He has a solution but it won't necessarily be instant. Guard one's thoughts to take the long view of His goodness and provision.

(Aside) Hey, Jeff, we all had some very silly ideas at one time!! Be thankful for the grace that allows us to have stupid ideas, and then change our minds to something more appropriate. I suppose the promoters of such off-the-wall conjectures at least get people thinking - something - of Jesus. Which is better than disregarding him altogether. Maybe some people will even be provoked into reading the Book?

The book "The Shack" seems to be getting a lot of publicity in Christian circles. Everyone seems to be talking about it. I've recently borrowed a copy and have finished reading it. If one can overcome the strong Trinitarian bias, there are some interesting things to think about. Philosophically, as it were. About why Bad Things Happen, Forgiveness, Rules, Restrictions, God's love for everyone, and concepts of Good and Evil. Just wondered if any of you Cafe patrons have read it, and what you think. Did you enjoy it? Did it show you anything new?

Welcome, Frame57. I don't even like to think what experiences you may have had with BG's ministry if it was better than TWI, but no doubt that'll depend on how long you were in TWI or how quickly you realized the grass there wasn't as green you thought, and it wasn't in fact grass but moss on a stinky bog.

He's gorgeous. She's gorgeous. You're - a dad! Congratulations!!

From the Wikipedia entry This isn't quite true. It may have been when they were introduced to the general believers but they were designated on an earlier occasion. It took place in the Auditorium during some big Ministry event - maybe it was Corps Week the previous year? (I was present at the event, and very enthusiastic for the new designation for these fine upstanding members of the Way old-timers, but I had been banished by 1995.) Any offers on the date? Othewise, Mark, maybe you can change that in Wiki too?

Thanks, both. Twinkle was a real "bendy toy". You really could position her more or less how you liked on your lap or chest and she'd sort of sigh and relax into the position, purring loudly. She had a lovely low purr but also a very high purr, like the one a very pleased cat has. And that's how she was purring in her last days. So we know she was happy. Crypto looks very like Twinkle, same dense black color with a little white mark on the chest, and slightly fluffy as opposed to very sleek. I have vision for Crypto to end up like Twinkle. It won't be any time soon. :(

Oh, and I learned to ski. Not very well. And sometimes my skis and I do not take exactly the same route... But I can get down a slope without too much disgrace or damage to other people; I have fun; I feel a sense of achievement.

Interesting thread, Jeff. Another thing that you might want to consider: On the cross Jesus gave special responsibility for the care of his mother to one of his disciples. As the oldest son he (and his wife) would be responsible culturally to care for his mother (that's one of the reasons the first born son gets a "double portion" - to take care of his extended family responsibilities). (Aside: interesting also that he gave care of his mother to one of his disciples - not to the second eldest brother, as one might expect.) At marriage a husband is supposed to leave his mother and father and cleave to his wife. Obviously that doesn't mean he abandons his parents (since that would not be honoring them) - rather, it means his focus, his first attention, is not to his parents' wishes but to his wife's wishes. Jesus gives no commandment concerning Mary M at the cross. He does not commit her [and any children] to the care of his disciples. Recall also the record and responsibilities of brothers to marry childless widows - a topic about which Jesus himself is confronted by scribes and Pharisees trying to trick him. Mary M seems to have spent a lot of time in the company of Jesus, but that doesn't mean she wasn't perhaps married to one of his disciples (perhaps one of the 12, perhaps another disciple). In fact, that might make some sense. As a married woman, she would be accompanying her husband in his pursuit of Jesus, and it would not necessarily be very remarkable. A single Jewish woman probably would be remarkable, in those days. We know very little of the disciples' or apostles' wives; only that Peter had a wife who once had a fever. Other than that - we know nothing of their private lives.

Mark, you may not be familiar with the Holman version. It seems pretty good, better than, for instance, NKJV, which seriously promotes a trinitarian viewpoint. No version is perfect. I like switching around and must have 20 versions. I read the Message for its brisk breeziness and besides, it makes me laugh. When did a Bible (KJV, lol) ever do that? Often I've read in Holman and thought, this seems new, is that what it's getting at? and then I read again the familiar in KJV or look at another version, and there it is, clear as day, instead of obscured by archaic language. You can check out your favorite bits on Crosswalk.com and run a parallel between Holman and whatever study version you prefer.

Interesting, Mark, and I look forward to more to come. What are you using to refer to and research "the" holy "the" spirit (or not) - are you checking in an interlinear, or are you using some other source(s)?

Potato - "Face metling over trivialities." Exactly. All in the guise of telling us to be "meek" to God. Actually, that abuses God even more than it abuses us. We simply wouldn't have put up with this garbage elsewhere. If any church minister behaved in this manner now, would we put up with it? If TWI know-it-alls could have distanced themselves from their own egos, they would have seen that the specks of dust in our lives were just that, specks of dust; and not seen so very close up through their own egos so that dust was magnified into planks. Even then, the hurts wouldn't be there still so painfully if there were open and honest exposure, apology and rectification.

Whereas, Mike-of-God-for-our-Day-and-Time (MOGFODAT), your only rule for faith and practice is "PFAL is perfect with no errors whatsoever." I don't see mention of "the Hope" in that succinct definition either; nor of healing; nor of any promises. ANY promises. You've chosen to pick on me. Well, let me tell you that knowing God is light and in him there is no darkness also encompasses his willingness to heal, to deliver, his compassion, his kindness, that he never leaves nor forsakes us, and a whole lot more. Just like for you PFAL isn't just the PFAL book but all the other VPW books. Don't presume to tell me what I believe. You simply don't want to listen, you want to put words in my mouth - and in the mouths of other posters here. I know that since I have stopped being bogged down in the miry clay of PFAL, my life has been a whole lot better. I embrace God and see his tender mercies to me daily. I learned some principles from PFAL; I am learning a lot of other stuff from tender-hearted Christians who have also seen his tender mercies to them daily. Now get off your soap box, pulpit, or whatever you want to call it, before it sinks in the miry clay forever.

Yes, people might well have got hurt some other way. But they didn't have to get hurt by someone masquerading as a Teacher, a minister, a man of God, somebody who would help them and not hurt them, someone from whom they could have reasonable expectations of behavior. Everyone knows that this world has many people who are out to trick them, to dupe them, to harm them in some way or other. There are also many great people (and those people may or may not be Christians) who are open, generous, and would never hurt anyone. In worldly terms, we learn to be wary of others and to consider their motives. Even so, we may get fooled often enough. And hurt, in the process. From reading posts here at the Cafe, it seems there were quite a number of young and vulnerable people, especially women, who thought they had found safety and help - and perhaps they did, initially, at the lower levels of TWI. In the Christian area, we tend to be more trusting. We look to ministers to - well, minister, serve, us - not minister to themselves. We do not expect to get hurt in the Christian area. And if we are, we expect quick repentance and making up. Yes, people might well have got hurt. But probably not by church leaders, not so many people, not over such a long period. Nor would they expect to be abused and hurt by those close to the said offending minister(s) who had trained other minister(s) to hurt and abuse the congregation. Especially the vulnerable congregants who had specifically sought out help. Or had been forced by various means to expose their vulnerabilities. It's a mean thought by someone who hasn't learned compassion. And that's all I'm saying, before I get too riled up.

Mike, VPW introduced a significant amount of "spiritual darkness" into the lives of TWI followers. He pushed people into "greater spiritual darkness" and took away what light (understanding) they had. "The Word of God so living and real"? But it wasn't good enough for he himself to practice it, was it? You consistently negate the effect of his behavior yet it is his behavior that has introduced so much darkness: his behavior in his debauched lifestyle (nothing like that he compelled rank-and-file believers to practice) and his behavior in his debauched teachings (doctrine), which has driven people away from the living God. Therefore, his rule for faith and practice wasn't something that guided his own behavior - so why should it guide anyone else's?

Play a musical instrument. As of one week ago, someone gave me a 61 key wotchamacallit with 100 voices and 1000 stored tunes. Or some such. So no excuse for not learning something about playing a keyboard instrument. Especially when a close friend is a retired piano teacher...! Not that I can play yet, you understand, but I have found out how to turn it on.

It's arrived?!! :) Pikky please pleeeaaase! Congratulations to you and mum and all the best to the new arrival.

Any possibility you could scan it and post it here? Was that your first year in rez, or the second year? I only got to Gunnison in the summer, for the Family camps. No doubt a whole different place in the winter!

Yes. For those still with cult-induced fear of other Christian groups - any haven is worth having.

Mark, that kinda backs what I was posting at the same time. You want to know what specific signs concerning VPW were evident to people . I want to know what specific works concerning PFAL Mike has performed. There should be something, visible, evident to all, documentable. Mike??

Mike, let’s hear it from you. You have lots of words to say. You preach PFAL. Now I’d just like to know about the power that you have. Jesus says that you can do greater works than Jesus Christ. He raised the dead; made the blind to see; healed sick men and women of many types of disease; he calmed the weather; he enabled thousands upon thousands of people to eat; he turned water into wine; he walked on water; he enabled others to prosper in their businesses by catching megahauls of fish. All of these works are purely in the physical, in the here and now; there are visible results, benefits, profit for the people round about. He also cast out devil spirits. In addition to that, he confronted the elders of the established church. Now, you are happy to confront the patrons of the Café, all of whom at one time have professed to be Christians though some now profess that they are not. Jesus did not spend much of his time confronting believers; he confronted leadership. Dealing with devil spirits/demons was considered earlier in this thread (specifically in relation to you) and it may be better if we don’t discuss that side again. Please, would you tell us about how many of the works like those of Jesus YOU have performed? When, where, upon whom? Let’s see your POWER in manifestation, in this physical world, right now. Show us when and how, by using the special powers of PFAL, YOU yourself have performed a selection of the real, physical, documentable types of works that Jesus Christ himself performed. Otherwise: And your faith in PFAL is just words. Just dead words.