Twinky

I enjoyed my WoW year and my family. I was truly sad when it ended. We did some good work and helped a lot of people. We just loved and trusted God. I know where my pin is, and wouldn't throw that one away. Yesterday I found a gold-colored SIT pin in the pot where I keep bits of broken crockery to go at the bottom of flower pots. Why was the SIT pin there? (scratches head) Now that one, I am not sure if I wish to keep. Maybe George can sell it on e-bay for me?

I wonder, too, why we really need a shift leader, but I think it is more that someone carries the radio and liaises with the city camera team. And brings the milk for the coffee. Her's the scheme: http://www.streetpastors.co.uk/Home/tabid/255/Default.aspx There isn't much on our city page so it doesn't link there yet. We have to get some stuff put on that, and a person who will update our Web pages from time to time. Our team of volunteers ranges from students at the university, to somebody in her 80s. The oldest one stays at base and prays (we always have two people praying) and the oldest who goes out on patrol is somewhere in her mid-70s. We are about 2/3 females and 1/3 males, interestingly. Generally the males are more accepting of the SL responsibility and the females more shy of it, but there are nonetheless bold and strong female leaders. I don't get the feeling it's "church teaching" but rather in the nature of the women themselves, that they don't want to be SL. Hey, I'm thankful for them all. God bless 'em. Some of them would be out every week, if they could. We have a training day coming up soon and I am going to speak with the person leading that, to see what we can do to exhort others to rise up. Interestingly, some only wanted to patrol with X, Y and Z whom they already knew. This is not always possible. For myself I consider it important to mix with my bros and sis in Christ whom I have not met before (especially having been so isolated by TWI). The Management Team backs me on mixing people up and none of them has any issue about who they serve with. It's all a part of learning to appreciate each other's abilities, and to learn from them.

Bramble, there is NO extra work to share out! Everyone on patrol does the same, prays before going out, walks the streets for a few hours, comes back to base, the people at base make everyone a cuppa, then the patrol goes out for a second stint of beat the feet. Then the patrol comes back, somebody finishes the report (which is REALLY brief) and there are closing prayers and everyone goes home. SL is a different person every time. It is healthy to disagree but I am not so sure it is healthy not to accept that you are capable of doing something very simple, nor to decline a smidgeon of extra responsibility. That looks like cowardice to me. Oakspear: yes, it might be about declining responsibility, especially if one is a supervisor-type at work: but in fact, those people are the ones who are most willing to help, knowing how very little work is involved! The real work is done by the Management Team, and there is quite a lot of that, all voluntary, and much is time-consuming. I think it's kinda sad that people don't want to get involved. Perhaps I should say, not involved, which they certainly are, but ... almost passengers on a journey they have paid to participate in.

What motivates me? My bladder! Closely followed by two hungry cats who come and rub round my ankles while I am relieving myself. After dealing with them, I may as well stay up and make a brew. And quite some time after that, my eyes open and the brain starts to engage.

No, it is not quite that, Pond, the people are there already, and the only extra work is to bring some milk. Oh, there is a sort of report form to be completed, not difficult, recording any issues that might have arisen, like a street light being out, and counting the number of bottles we have picked up and the number of people we have spoken to (both of the latter two are something of a communal guess). This form is usually started at mid-evening break and completed end of shift. Could be done by a different person, just that it works out for the SL to do it. In any event, everyone is there all the time. We all arrive just before 10 and nobody leaves until everyone on that shift is ready. What have others perceived about the acceptance of responsibility within the church? What about parents, accepting responsibility to help with the Children's Ministry (kids' Sunday School) if your church is big enough? What about being a church warden or some other role within the church admin? What about Outreach evenings (if your church has them)? What about hospital visiting (ditto)? What about service to housebound/elderly/sick? What about dealing with a Soup Run/helping the homeless? Or is it the same ones helping, nearly all the time?

Not quite sure what forum this needs to be in, so Mods, if you think best elsewhere, please feel free to move it. I am one of a group of about 60 volunteers, all longstanding Christians, who patrol the streets of my city during the wee hours. We are on duty from 10 pm to about 3 pm on Friday and Saturday nights. We are all part of the original enthusiastic group of volunteers. Each one goes out about once a month. There is a team of not less than 5 and up to about 10 going out each weekend night. I act as a voluntary Rota Coordinator. A Shift leader is appointed for each night, and this person’s responsibilities are fairly slight: bring a bottle of milk (to make tea/coffee), to be responsible for a portable radio with ear piece, and to carry a bag with a few small supplies in it. The bag and radio can be delegated, ie, someone else on the patrol can carry. In addition, the shift leader decides exactly who will be out on patrol and who back at base; decides the precise patrol route (which is based on a standard one we have all been recommended to take), decides how long to spend with the people we speak with. In truth, the whole lot of decisions is more of a final decision, as the team members are all responsible adults and there has never been any arguing and each defers nicely to the others. It is not difficult and all it requires is basically being polite and considerate to each other. With the overall coordinator of the scheme, just a few have been identified who we think should not be leading (perhaps because fairly new Christians or because of some health issue) but the default position is, each volunteer should expect to be a shift leader, and this is emphasised at our training sessions (which all of us has completed). It astonishes me that some people refuse to be Shift Leaders and seem horrified at the prospect. They decline to accept the responsibility (such as it is) to lead a team, feeling that they don’t have the skills or ability. I really don’t know what they think they are lacking but they refuse to have a go. I never roster anyone as shift leader without they have been out several times before as an ordinary team member, and I try to see that the more timid ones have a good supportive crew along to help them for their first outing as team leader, so they won’t feel out on a limb or forget what to do. Yet the more timid volunteers are nonetheless happy enough to be out on patrol when the drunk kids are coming out at 2.30 pm, so they clearly aren’t lacking in confidence. No shift leader has ever come back to me and said, "Never again!" (but rather, that they enjoyed it); and nobody has said that any shift leader made a total mess of it (which would be extremely difficult) and shouldn't be SL again. After the readiness to act, to do, encountered in The Way, it never ceases to amaze me how reluctant some people are to get involved or to take responsibility. They don’t want to do much within the church; they don’t do much outside of the church; and when it comes to speaking about God to someone else – many simply freeze at the possibility Now we of The Way know that God empowers in all situations and works within us to will and to do of his good pleasure. He doesn’t put us into situations where we cannot cope. There is something to learn in any situation. So if in The Way you volunteered (or more often were volunteered) for a task, whether to be a team member or to lead/ coordinate the team, nobody ever declined: but even if they demurred a little, were simply told to get on and do it. What I’d like to discuss on this thread is whether or not this reluctance to get involved is widespread among churches (specifically I’m thinking about Christian involvement, not secular) and why you think that might be. Is it lack of personal confidence; lack of confidence in God; reluctance to get involved – in anything; something else? Do you think we were boosted to over-confidence in The Way? (I don’t; I know I learned by being asked to be responsible for things that I had had little experience of.) I don’t want this to become a Way-bashing thread (if anything, it might be the other way around!). Of course we are not all chiefs and many are content to be indians – but shouldn’t we all be ready to serve in whatever capacity?

Went wrong? Was it ever "right"?? Was built on pride, ego, greed, a scam. A counterfeit, with just enough truth to suck in the genuinely innocent and pure of heart. Some of the doctrines were correct. But, as with the Pharisees, we be best instructed to follow the words, but NOT the actions. Just think how surprised you would be if the following happened!

My brain has made a reappearance, that seems pretty good!

Happy Easter, everyone. Enjoy life to the max today.

Paw, that's tremendous. There's obviously only a fraction of you left compared with the "man you used to be" - but what a fraction! Your post makes it so evident that you have more joie de vivre. Congratulations on doing so very well at losing all that weight. Next thing will be to keep it off. And thanks to the mods, busboys, washer-uppers, etc, who share the work at the Cafe.

Jeff, you are trying hard to overcome a difficult beginning compounded by a difficult adult life. Well done for recognizing where the errors lie! We all have "relationship scars" and it does take honesty (firstly) to see what effect our behavior has on others; (secondly) to see what has conditioned any particular behavior and (thirdly) to do something about it. Habits can be very hard to break and require constant effort to overcome and to establish a new habit/behavior. As you say, a word from a friend about some less than lovely behavior is worth much. That's what "speaking the truth in love" is about. It is not about pointing out the ...sawdust... in others' eyes whilst peering through the plank in one's own eyes. And it definitely isn't being picky or overly critical or nagging. You are a neat and tender-hearted man, and if you can teach your son to say "sorry" promptly you will help him not perpetuate errors - those taught by you, or by his mother (asnd by extension, the splinter group leader). Help him to recognize egregious behavior and to distinguish it from the fake "meekness" peddled by TWI/offshoots.

I don't know either of you but am delighted to offer congratulations and best wishes for many more years together. How wonderful that it's worked out so well for you both. :)

Well, this looked like an interesting old thread so thought I'd bump it up.

However many ... too many.

...the holy ground? And welcome, Jellybean. Grab a pew ... the water here's not holy, but teh coffee's good.

Let's not forget this verse: This is the level of respect we are required to GIVE EACH OTHER - each believer to every other believer. Each member of the congregation to the minister. Each minister to his congregation. Each spouse to the other. Kinda dispenses with the ego of being "the leader" or "the CEO" or anything else that sounds glamorous, doesn't it? We submit to the Lord Jesus Christ - because he first submitted himself (to God and at his direction), to us. He submitted himself even to death. Anything any of us does is generally less than that.

Leafy, that is completely bizarre! You could only write "approved" notes? (LOL) This is one of their bizarre things that I've never heard of. What year(s) were you discouraged from private study? Linda - Yes, courage to carry on. But perhaps they were more used to death (especially early death) in those days - not the antibiotics and other drugs to deal with childhood illnesses. Still takes its toll, though. My great grandmother to the end of her days (aged 90) mourned the death of her 18 month old daughter. Old Bibles can also often be picked up cheaply from charity bookshops (an inexpensive way to build up a collection of different versions). I find it strangely insulting that a Bible (whatever version) can be bought for pennies, the same price as some pulp fiction.

Likewise, THW. So much tiny writing in the margins of my Bible - I used a Companion Bible and the margins on that aren't huge. I was also given another Companion Bible as a graduation present. Nowadays I use several other more modern versions, from The Message (wacky!) to ... well, just about anything. Other versions are so much more readable, so much more understandable. But with such a KJV background, I find I use that as a "reference" point, to look up any other scripture. Can't see myself throwing that Bible away, though. Don't you think TWI only used KJV because the (stolen) class used KJV and they were too lazy to import it to another version (eg, NASB)? And also because it gave "The Teacher" the opportunity to show off his "extensive" knowledge of Old English. ...Not that that knowledge was accurate, either grammatically, or in the meanings he assigned to it. And he certainly didn't teach some very significant bits that could have been ascertained from the use of some of the language - like the use of second person singular (thee, thou) in relation to the closeness of the relationship with God as Father (not the formal or remote second person plural (you, ye)).

Be caring Be compassionate Don't be fooled Ask God to guide you Don't be afraid to walk away You don't need to suck any more abuse If she did find you through this site - she is reading our responses too Even LCM said: "Trust is earned." She needs to earn it. You are required to love your enemies. You are not required to trust them

Yes, T&O, I saw that, but I also saw this: "Ryegrass (Lolium) is a genus of nine species of tufted grasses, family Poaceae. Also called tares (even though there is no firm evidence that this is the same as the plant given that name in English language translations of the Bible - vetches are another candidate), these plants are native to Europe, Asia and northern Africa, but are widely cultivated and naturalised elsewhere. Ryegrasses are naturally diploid, with 2n = 14, and are closely related to the fescues Festuca." (underlining mine) I'm not sure, from the parable, whether even the weed needs to resemble the crop. Just removal of the weed has potential to damage the crop. But if the weed is a "look alike" it does make the parable stronger.

This is an interesting discussion - but if you are saying that "tares" look pretty much like "wheat" (rather than looking just like some other weed, a thistle, say) - what are you saying the tares are (botanically - your pastor seems to know!)? I've always taken this parable just as an example - even in a domestic setting, a gardener can sow seeds and then weed seeds blow in and grow amongst the desirable plants - depending on how they're sown, a gardener won't necessarily remove the weed seeds straight away because to do so may disturb the roots of the desirable plants. When the desirable plants have got a little bigger, then the weed seeds may be removed without risk of uprooting or selecting by mistake the desirable plants. In an agricultural setting (and that's what Palestine was, in those days) a farmer doesn't usually spend the time going along the rows of wheat and wheat-like crops, weeding. But the desirable crop, being taller, may well shade out the weeds. Like all parables - beware of taking it too far.

P-Mosh, you're right that that requires another thread; please will you start one? It's a good topic for discussion. It could get lengthy. Jeff, what you've said is something that rankles with me, too. Was Rahab a sort of brothel-keeper, a prostitute who'd made it to "madam"? Maybe; aren't "western" movies often depicting of hostelries with girls attached (or maybe the other way around)? Also, people with something to hide (spies?) often stay in cheap and sleazy surroundings (brothels?), where "nobody tells." Rahab had her own "house" with access to the outdoors (at least the roof); she wasn't imprisoned. Bullinger says the word "harlot" is used in its "usual sense." Maybe she had been forced into prostitution, as you suggest. But perhaps not by her family, who she wanted to be saved also (Joshua 2:13, 6:23,25). Whatever, she certainly didn't like her cultural surroundings very much. A traitor to her own tribe, city. Why would she want to do that? She didn't do it for the money. She wanted safety, rescue from them. Rescue from sexual degradation? Perhaps she and her family were "foreigners" who had lived in the city for a while but weren't totally accepted. She would be an interesting "skeleton in the closet" - an ex-prostitute made good and elevated in the invaders' eyes. How people'd see her would depend very much on their viewpoint! What God thinks is pretty significant - as BoJ says, one of few named women in the Bible.

Like this?

The hook is the sometimes good stuff (at least, it sounds good, to the unitiated, until they have time to consider it) stuff. It's bait. Set out to entrap the loyal, as Dot says. Once the bait is taken, then the victim is slowly, oh so slowly, reeled in. As VPW said in PFAL, even the Devil knows the Word. There's just enough "word" to deceive. Dorian, you could try contradictory things with your friend. If you ignored her enthusiasm for TWI, what would be likely to happen, would she stop pushing against you and towards TWI? Or if you affected enthusiasm, would she back off? The book "Toxic Faith" might help - you. "The Subtle Power of Spiritual Abuse" might help - it lays the snare right out in the open. And Kris Skedgell's radio episode here at the Cafe - well, I guess she would think it all lies. Pray for your friend. And just "be there" in a supportive way.

From the "Stress" thread Get real, what would they / VPW look like, huh, cartoon wolves in sheep's clothing? Slathering jaws under a sheepskin rug? Good point, Rascal.