Twinky

Well, after recommendations from lots of people (including those on this site) I've started using Mozilla Firefox, and rather like it. In fact, I never use IE now although it still wants to update itself. Whenever it so attempts, it really upsets all the settings on my wireless connection. Just not worth the effort. How do I set the browser to block pop-ups? Or maybe it is properly set - it's the annoying adverts on my Hotmail account that I'd like to get rid of. Maybe WW could PM me, so as not to derail this thread. Thanks.

"State leaders"? - WTF?? Has TWI abandoned the "tree" analogy? Wouldn't the state leader be - the Governor? The Senator?? (LOL) So what are Reyn0lds, Harve P and Moneyhands assigned to do? Hey, innies, let's have a list of ... all these people that we don't know ... and all their fake jobs. BTW, some trees are notorious for throwing up parasitic saplings from their roots. These are known as "suckers." In devising this analogy, VPW forgot about suckers... http://www.rhs.org.uk/advice/profiles1004/treesuckers.asp

Wish I had taken more pix when I was in rez. I go through phases,n at times taking quite a lot of photos and other times never touching my camera. But when in rez, there were the twin problems of (1) finding the money to buy film, then develop and print photos, out of the $30/month allowance; and (2) getting out and about to somewhere that could D&P (there was very little free time, for anything). Supposed I could have asked visiting spiritual partners or other people who came in; but those poor willing souls (God bless 'em) could often find themselves quite put upon by the needy in rez corps. Some of my Corps however did manage to take some photos - well, they did on LEAD but I myself might have managed an exception for that - but most of the time, we didn't. I did find the class pic taken at conclusion of my first PFAL. ...Who were all these people? And I have copies of a few other class pix of later PFALs - who were all those people? In part, the 'no photos' thing (especially as it relates to alleged cop-outs) is "forgetting those things you've left behind". But that doesn't exactly square with HQ taking their own photos of classes, events, productions, etc. I don't remember any specicfic doctrine or teaching on this. Oh wait, yes I do. I remember some sort of slide show where LCM was showing us some slides of some party in the Big Top. There was a pic of someone who had recently "copped out" and LCM couldn't get past that quick enough and made some remark in less than complimentary tones. A little later in the same slide show, there was a slide of me dancing with someone and he flicked past that pretty quick too. Always thought my days were numbered, after that. However, I did manage to hang on to graduate and then for a while after that, too. What I do remember from the mid to late 80s is that the music of alleged cop-out musicians was HEAVILY frowned-upon and banned. You would get divil spirits from listening to such material.

I just skimmed this thread for the first time... Wasn't/Isn't there a sign over the door of the BRC saying something like, "The Good Old Days are NOW!"? Heck, those who are innies now (but not yet posters here) might well look back in 10 years or so on their time now and think it was the good old days. Some of the best people I have ever met have been in TWI. Some of the worst people I have ever met have been in TWI. I knew nobody already in when I joined. I know some people now that I maintain still contact with. Am friends with, even. Am glad to know. There are others that I have not yet heard of/been in contact with that I would like to know about. Then there are are the other people ... that I would have difficulty being anywhere near. They are few and far between. Brainfixed, your time will probably pan out like that too. It wasn't all bad, it certainly wasn't all good. It's looking at it for what it was, and trying to find a balanced view. Not wildly one extreme or another. What does it take to make your heart peaceful? Your head is a bit of a whirl but you sound like you're "getting there." Be patient with yourself. The rubbish in your head wasn't put there overnight and it won't be cleaned out overnight, either. Dooj says some good stuff.

Hey, Ham, knock it off! I spent ... too long... on Bevvy crew. I always seem to get assigned to Bevvy crew on big weekends, events, etc. It made for a horribly long day. Up early to turn on the hot water machine, make, serve, wash the containers, more HW, make, serve... and so on. Funny I never looked to see if it was Decaf or not. And I don't remember that I ever had a cup of it ... too darn busy to pause even that long! And now I find myself, just occasionally, on Bevvy crew at Church. Where I do find time for a cup of coffee. What a mug! (lol, get it? ) No MoGs in sight, though. I think next time I am on Bevvy duty - but why wait that long? - I will take a cup of coffee out to the whoever delivers the sermon, as s/he stands bidding farewell to people at the door.

This is what Jeff is referring to: What we're looking at here is the situation where perhaps both had been unbelievers, one had been won to Christ, and the other still hadn't made up his or her mind, continuing to follow the old beliefs and worship of Diana, Artemis, or whoever. We are not talking about the OT situation of the Chosen ones taking foreign spouses. Yes, culturally wives were supposed to follow their husbands and believe what their men believed. But actually, women do have their own minds and brains, to think with! Paul's advice was basically that the behavior of the believing spouse should be a witness of God's love for the unbelieving spouse, and so win the unbelieving spouse to God. But if the unbelieving spouse refused to behave in a reasonable manner, then the believing spouse had no duty to put up with that. But of course, TWI took no attention to Paul's exhortations (and here this thread ties into the Submission thread): This spousal abuse is not unique to TWI. Some years ago, I met a fine woman (in a matrimonial situation) - husband was a leader in the Salvation Army - she led a terrible life and when she complained to the other elders, she was told that she needed to submit more (sound familiar?). Her husband's anger and abuse were her fault! Poor woman couldn't stand it any more and sought a divorce. The legalities of the divorce were one thing, but her head couldn't get round leaving him. I shared these verses with her and pointed out that the husband, in beating her, wasn't doing what he should be doing as a leader, that he was unbelieving, that if she continued to live with him that was bondage and Christ had called us to be free. She obviously thought about that a lot and the next time she came into the office, she was really changed and she said these verses had set her free. I have encountered ex TWI women who have been beaten, threatened with weapons, and physically abused. This often follows significant emotional abuse and systematic belittling. Other women have "merely" been emotionally abused - the damage from that can be much much worse. VPW abused and belittled his own wife privately, whilst vaunting their marriage in public. That's the example he set. If your private treatment of your spouse differs from your public treatment of that same person - why? (Do you know the word "hypocrite"?) For women: if you were with Jesus two millennia ago - would he treat you like your husband is doing? For men: if you were with Jesus two millennia ago - would you have seen him treat his followers, men or women, in the way you are treating your wife? There are enough examples of Jesus being with women to form an opinion! (edited cos I couldn't get my quote references in the right way!

Aw, what a beauty. Congratulations to Mum and Dad !! and to all the other !!!! on the new addition to the family. Mum and Dad look VERY pleased with themselves.

I foresee a time when they will charge the visitors to HQ for the cups of coffee offered at big weekends, SNS, etc. Gotta steward that ABS properly, you know.

Hmm, are they back to what they did in the 80s? -centralizing all stores of everything -have to request pens one at a time (perhaps paperclips, too?) -cutting staff salaries (like the staff can really live on any less money) -Are they rationing the toilet paper yet

Leafy and GC, I am madly envious of you! My garden is pathetic. Really pathetic. Little salad seeds have hardly emerged. Of 77 beans I have one nice plant and 3 or 4 miserable ones. I believe ants are carving up the leaves as fast as they appear. I am soaking some more seeds which I will plant NOT in the garden tomorrow, and if the plants grow I will transplant them. I have been given some beautiful scarlet curly kale plants and some purple sprouting broccoli. They are now nicely at home in the garden. These are now resident in the place where the "sacrificial" savoys were and I have pulled off and kept the decent leaves for eating and composted the rest. Tonight I seeded some lettuce (previous lot never germinated or was eaten) and beetroot (only a few brave ones germinated) and also some leeks (previous ones in pots did nothing). Really must get on with finishing the shrub border. It has a lot of ground elder. A lot of that got knocked back last year when I dug out 4 leylandii. There is also bindweed in that border, which I also need to remove as best as possible. Then I will put permanent shrubs in, perhaps leave space to transplant the gooseberry and the raspberries from their current position. Ah, about my bean trench. In addition to the one decent bean plant and the struggling other 3 or 4 there are also: Lots of potato plants Some tomato seedlings Something like a squash or courgette (just emerging) Rather worrying. Means my compost wasn't properly composted when I dug it in. Who knows what else I have "planted"? The potatoes are from peelings, so nothing really to support the plant. I don't expect much to develop underneath - if I choose to leave them. Might transplant the tomato(es) if they get big enough. ***** GC, looks like we won't be able to catch up before Aug. You are on hols soon, and a friend from overseas is visiting nearly all of July. Speak with you about a visit when my friend goes. Have a nice holiday!

One of the things TWI did for us was to eradicate our critical thinking skills. (You can think anything you like, as long as it doesn't disagree from the TWI take of the day.) Coming here for the first few times was shocking. How could people post such things? How could they be so anti-TWI? How come their opinions were so "off the Word"? How come after such teaching, they could think such weird things? But the variety of different responses on most forums really gives any reader the opportunity to start thinking again. We've all come from more or less the same place, and our thinking has splayed out in all sorts of directions. Some people's posts ... still seem out there. Other posts really help me evaluate what and why I think something. So actually just being at the Cafe is a good critical thinking tool. Brainfixed, you might find you go through a whole lot of different opinions before you finally work something out for yourself. Enjoy!

BNB, I think you see exactly the sort of attitudes represented on this thread that you are finding working on your GF. (Drat! I see the Mods have removed OM's post, at least partially! That's how offensive it was.) Escapees are keen to help you escape. TWI-heads are keen to blame you. It's obvious here. It's obvious but much deeper and with other subtleties in the handling. Sorry your GF has gone back. You will need much patience if you choose to pursue this woman. Just don't pursue her straight into the mouth of the ravening wolf. (You'd be as stupid as Adam if you did. You'd know it's wrong but did it anyway.) Even if she decides it's not for her, she has a long road ahead of her to get rid of the junk they've filled her head with. It can be very difficult for friends, family and other supporters just helping those who have left.

T-Bone, that has all the makings of an excellent comedy show!

Hey, Ex10, I just got an email from Tagged supposedly from you. Did you actually send this? I looked at the email, and to view the pix I have to give lotsa personal data and sign up for an account, including giving DoB. GstG - exactly!! Makes sense if it's a dating service type of thing.

Not quite on topic, but the reason the abuse happened, why they were so "strict" with children, is because they focused on Eph 6:1-3 and divorced it from 6:4: While TWI might have said they were fulfilling 6:4b ("training and discipline") they forgot / ignored / glossed over the "don't exasperate" part and Amp notes the rearing of children is to be done "tenderly". But hey. If you stick with KJV what you get is: And the only note I have among my many pencilled Bible notes is that "nurture" means "discipline". No. Nurture is a WHOLE LOT MORE than just discipline. It's carefully providing for all that the nurtured one needs to maximise growth: the right growing conditions, right environment, right food, right handling. Check any decent dictionary.

Y'know, witnessing shouldn't be a big deal. Sit on the bus, the train, a bench on the park; engage someone in conversation; you'll find they quickly start talking about their pet "thing". How many are happy talking about their "Mother Nature" or astrology or black/white magic or whatever their thing is? They complain about the weather? Just speaking about how good God is, and how we couldn't manage without x or y. Surprising how many will start talking about their own Christian faith. I say this, living in a country where one's beliefs are only rarely spoken about; it's not good form and it's non-PC and ergh... :( - not a high public God-consciousness here. It's nice to engage in conversation and put a smile on someone's face. Make them feel a little better about their day. Maybe they will accept a kind word or two from you, a stranger whom they'll never meet again. Maybe they will tell you about some problem on their mind. Maybe you will give them the only nice time they will have that day. When it gets hard, is where you aren't engaging in a conversation but engaging in a sales pitch, or trying to "convert" them there and then to your way of thinking, or "showing off" about how much of the Bible you know - and generally disregarding or dismissing whatever they say. No wonder people were put off by the "mall attack" or the doorknocking. Wonder how many people were ever actually won for God (never mind TWI) that way?

Think WW says it all. The purges were of those who wouldn't lockstep into whatever direction he was going. They questioned, or retained some shred of independence. Reasons given for dismissing people were that they were "not meek to the Word" (= questioned leadership) they "did not believe" the word (inadequate believing, that's why they were sick/had debts/had "problem children") Real reason is that their heads weren't (as The Forehead would put it) "stuck up some place the sun don't shine."

Was given some mint yesterday. The donor told me it was a "rampant" mint and aggressive grower. It certainly is!! So it is confined to a pot and will not go near the garden. The flavour is really strong. Two other people have promised me other mints with different flavours. While I was there, he gave me some of his home-grown plants: 6 sweetcorn, 3 different squashes, and a sort of round cucumber. And 2 sprouting broc, but can't remember when they are supposed to flower (summer?). I already have some other minute little brocs and they are the other season (autumn?). The squashes and corn will be completely new for me to grow but having read all your advices on this thread, I feel comfy with the corn. The soil is quite clay-ey but the donor's soil will be the same and his corn was thriving and he grows it every year. I grew courgettes last year and the new squashes should be similar in requirements. I did try with a squash last year but it just produced a few leaves and forgot to flower! gc, these long warm summer evenings are just wonderful, aren't they! bliss! Lovely for sitting out in, or I often take a stroll through the fields back of my house as the sun sets.

"Left TWI" - now that's an interesting concept. One raised in the early part of this thread. There are some "innies" who have left TWI in their hearts but continue to stick around because their spouse, or sometimes their kids or parents, are still there. Have they left? And there are some people who have been "out" for a long time, but they still espouse the principal facts of the doctrine. They defend it in these threads. Have they left? And there are those who were kicked out and feel bad, humiliated, guilty, ashamed, or are still hurting. They think the organization is fine but they are at fault. They might want to go back, if they're good enough, or eat enough humble pie, or they simply can't settle in mainstream churches. Have they left? At what point do you "leave"? For me, I probably "left" after I'd discovered the Cafe, when I read all the horror stories of the abuse and realized that what had happened to me was simply a part of the modus operandi and very little to do with me personally. But they'd booted me over a decade earlier and self-condemnation had left me miserable but still Waybrained.

Am assuming you have asked her for details of these great Godly works that she is doing, that delay her. The blessings on the lives of others. The benefit to them. How it helps their walk to be better. Ha ha. You could try telling her God is a God of order. If you make plans in a "Godly way" (= to meet up together at such and such a time) then tell her God knows about those plans and knew about them at the time the arrangement was made, and she should continue to work within them. That will open the door for God to bless her. Anything else is a distraction from the devil, who is always keen to frustrate God's plans. God wants things to be done decently and in order. That involves turning up not just on time, but 10 mins early for appointments. How can you expect God to work in you, if you can't even stick to a simple plan like turning up on time? Also, when you say you are going to do a thing, you should do it. Let your yea be yea, etc. Of these, they are very much Way doctrine, but something of a corruption of Biblical principles by Way doctrine - out of context, etc. Chockfull's idea of cancelling out on her isn't bad, either. You'd clearly be following her great leadership.

Wow, follow the links on the books, and you'll end up at Amazon where two booksellers claim to have NEW copies of teh Blue Book, one selling at $107 and the other selling at $119 (plus shipping costs). (Used copies are available from $12.99) Huh, I really must sell mine. The whole set. Josey reads the entire Bible through every month? He has read it entirely 260 times? And still finds time to do all these other wonderful things, put together all these classes? Not - ummm - plagiarizing the plagiarizer at all? No, he gives acknowledgment to VPW. From whom he learned well.

"Dickie the test kitty" - LOL! And can you add some video of Chandler here? My mum's cat used to follow her round the village, running from hedge bottom to hedge bottom following mum. Mum would walk up the hill with my dad (depending on what shift he was on) - he would push his bike, and they would stroll up the hill. Kitty would be lurking around behind them observing. Then when mum came home, Kitty would skip through hedges, following mum till in a final spurt she was sitting on the doorstep when mum got home. But all of our family cats (of which many) have had great personalities. My two - yes, even Crypto - have taken to yelling at me if I don't let them out. They love to go out and roll and wriggle on the warm concrete. They have their fave places to lurk in the garden. It has been really hot lately and as often as not they are in the house where it is cooler. About 10 days ago, it was raining, only lightly, but nonetheless wet. They stood in the doorway gazing out and then turned and glared at me. Clearly the rain was all my fault. I may need to fit the cat door, though they are both too stupid to work out how to open the proper door if it is left ajar, so how long it would take them to manage the cat door is questionable. Trouble is, if I fit the cat door, no way of keeping other cats out. No way of fitting a little magnetic collar to either of my two. They love to be out at dusk. They chase the moths. They are really acrobatic in their leaps. No doubt they will learn that a moth 4ft up in the air isn't likely a successful catch. If they are out in the day, they like the kitchen door left open. But that's not what I want (an invitation to burglars?) so I close it. And these two little faces will peer at me through the glass in the door - their expressions of bewilderment, abandonment, fear, horror, clearly writ for all to see.

She has recently been taken to "a London clinic" - allegedly taken away by Police under the Mental Health Act. That was a few days ago. No news since. Poor woman needs a rest from all this publicity. Paparazzi, speculation, hype - enough to give anyone a "nervous breakdown."

It's easy to understand this woman's "breakdown" or whatever it is. Intense hype, build-up, ra-ra-ra...and then it all falls flat. The stress of it must be enormous. (I'm looking for a job; I interview really well; then they say I was just "pipped at the post. Just at that, it knocks me out for the rest of the day. So for this young woman with mega-hype and a genuine and realistic expectation of success...her disappointment must be equally intense.) However, just because she didn't win the contest doesn't mean it's all over for her. Her talent has been showcased and if anyone wants to pick it up and give her a chance, hey, she's out there. She has acquired a real following - and as you guys show, that following is not just in the UK but in America also.She's had her 15 minutes of fame and then some. More than so very many others will ever achieve. All the best to her.

A nice evening in the garden. The courgettes are all planted (including the "spare" ones, which if I get down your way soon, gc, I will uproot and bring with me - no promises) and so are some little cabbages (type unknown). Some of my plants simply weren't thriving in pots so they are now in the garden in one of two "nursery" areas (or "last chance saloon"!). Easier to water, more space to spread their roots, and if it is the compost, well, there is other real soil with decent own-made compost enriching it. If they survive, good; if not, tthey'll just ... disappear. Oh, the cabbages are "sacrificial" to cabbage white butterflies, but till the cabbage whites discover them, there are still some nice leaves which I pluck every so often. Still taste good. I have chopped off the flowers (and the flowers on the chard). They haven't gone to seed yet, and so are now ... preparing to enrich the soil next year. Cannibalistic, really. It's been pleasant out in the garden, out till dusk, only just come in (10 pm) - the cats have been playing on the lawn and trying to catch moths. A very homely scene.