Twinky

Hmm, are they back to what they did in the 80s? -centralizing all stores of everything -have to request pens one at a time (perhaps paperclips, too?) -cutting staff salaries (like the staff can really live on any less money) -Are they rationing the toilet paper yet

Leafy and GC, I am madly envious of you! My garden is pathetic. Really pathetic. Little salad seeds have hardly emerged. Of 77 beans I have one nice plant and 3 or 4 miserable ones. I believe ants are carving up the leaves as fast as they appear. I am soaking some more seeds which I will plant NOT in the garden tomorrow, and if the plants grow I will transplant them. I have been given some beautiful scarlet curly kale plants and some purple sprouting broccoli. They are now nicely at home in the garden. These are now resident in the place where the "sacrificial" savoys were and I have pulled off and kept the decent leaves for eating and composted the rest. Tonight I seeded some lettuce (previous lot never germinated or was eaten) and beetroot (only a few brave ones germinated) and also some leeks (previous ones in pots did nothing). Really must get on with finishing the shrub border. It has a lot of ground elder. A lot of that got knocked back last year when I dug out 4 leylandii. There is also bindweed in that border, which I also need to remove as best as possible. Then I will put permanent shrubs in, perhaps leave space to transplant the gooseberry and the raspberries from their current position. Ah, about my bean trench. In addition to the one decent bean plant and the struggling other 3 or 4 there are also: Lots of potato plants Some tomato seedlings Something like a squash or courgette (just emerging) Rather worrying. Means my compost wasn't properly composted when I dug it in. Who knows what else I have "planted"? The potatoes are from peelings, so nothing really to support the plant. I don't expect much to develop underneath - if I choose to leave them. Might transplant the tomato(es) if they get big enough. ***** GC, looks like we won't be able to catch up before Aug. You are on hols soon, and a friend from overseas is visiting nearly all of July. Speak with you about a visit when my friend goes. Have a nice holiday!

One of the things TWI did for us was to eradicate our critical thinking skills. (You can think anything you like, as long as it doesn't disagree from the TWI take of the day.) Coming here for the first few times was shocking. How could people post such things? How could they be so anti-TWI? How come their opinions were so "off the Word"? How come after such teaching, they could think such weird things? But the variety of different responses on most forums really gives any reader the opportunity to start thinking again. We've all come from more or less the same place, and our thinking has splayed out in all sorts of directions. Some people's posts ... still seem out there. Other posts really help me evaluate what and why I think something. So actually just being at the Cafe is a good critical thinking tool. Brainfixed, you might find you go through a whole lot of different opinions before you finally work something out for yourself. Enjoy!

BNB, I think you see exactly the sort of attitudes represented on this thread that you are finding working on your GF. (Drat! I see the Mods have removed OM's post, at least partially! That's how offensive it was.) Escapees are keen to help you escape. TWI-heads are keen to blame you. It's obvious here. It's obvious but much deeper and with other subtleties in the handling. Sorry your GF has gone back. You will need much patience if you choose to pursue this woman. Just don't pursue her straight into the mouth of the ravening wolf. (You'd be as stupid as Adam if you did. You'd know it's wrong but did it anyway.) Even if she decides it's not for her, she has a long road ahead of her to get rid of the junk they've filled her head with. It can be very difficult for friends, family and other supporters just helping those who have left.

T-Bone, that has all the makings of an excellent comedy show!

Hey, Ex10, I just got an email from Tagged supposedly from you. Did you actually send this? I looked at the email, and to view the pix I have to give lotsa personal data and sign up for an account, including giving DoB. GstG - exactly!! Makes sense if it's a dating service type of thing.

Not quite on topic, but the reason the abuse happened, why they were so "strict" with children, is because they focused on Eph 6:1-3 and divorced it from 6:4: While TWI might have said they were fulfilling 6:4b ("training and discipline") they forgot / ignored / glossed over the "don't exasperate" part and Amp notes the rearing of children is to be done "tenderly". But hey. If you stick with KJV what you get is: And the only note I have among my many pencilled Bible notes is that "nurture" means "discipline". No. Nurture is a WHOLE LOT MORE than just discipline. It's carefully providing for all that the nurtured one needs to maximise growth: the right growing conditions, right environment, right food, right handling. Check any decent dictionary.

Y'know, witnessing shouldn't be a big deal. Sit on the bus, the train, a bench on the park; engage someone in conversation; you'll find they quickly start talking about their pet "thing". How many are happy talking about their "Mother Nature" or astrology or black/white magic or whatever their thing is? They complain about the weather? Just speaking about how good God is, and how we couldn't manage without x or y. Surprising how many will start talking about their own Christian faith. I say this, living in a country where one's beliefs are only rarely spoken about; it's not good form and it's non-PC and ergh... :( - not a high public God-consciousness here. It's nice to engage in conversation and put a smile on someone's face. Make them feel a little better about their day. Maybe they will accept a kind word or two from you, a stranger whom they'll never meet again. Maybe they will tell you about some problem on their mind. Maybe you will give them the only nice time they will have that day. When it gets hard, is where you aren't engaging in a conversation but engaging in a sales pitch, or trying to "convert" them there and then to your way of thinking, or "showing off" about how much of the Bible you know - and generally disregarding or dismissing whatever they say. No wonder people were put off by the "mall attack" or the doorknocking. Wonder how many people were ever actually won for God (never mind TWI) that way?

Think WW says it all. The purges were of those who wouldn't lockstep into whatever direction he was going. They questioned, or retained some shred of independence. Reasons given for dismissing people were that they were "not meek to the Word" (= questioned leadership) they "did not believe" the word (inadequate believing, that's why they were sick/had debts/had "problem children") Real reason is that their heads weren't (as The Forehead would put it) "stuck up some place the sun don't shine."

Was given some mint yesterday. The donor told me it was a "rampant" mint and aggressive grower. It certainly is!! So it is confined to a pot and will not go near the garden. The flavour is really strong. Two other people have promised me other mints with different flavours. While I was there, he gave me some of his home-grown plants: 6 sweetcorn, 3 different squashes, and a sort of round cucumber. And 2 sprouting broc, but can't remember when they are supposed to flower (summer?). I already have some other minute little brocs and they are the other season (autumn?). The squashes and corn will be completely new for me to grow but having read all your advices on this thread, I feel comfy with the corn. The soil is quite clay-ey but the donor's soil will be the same and his corn was thriving and he grows it every year. I grew courgettes last year and the new squashes should be similar in requirements. I did try with a squash last year but it just produced a few leaves and forgot to flower! gc, these long warm summer evenings are just wonderful, aren't they! bliss! Lovely for sitting out in, or I often take a stroll through the fields back of my house as the sun sets.

"Left TWI" - now that's an interesting concept. One raised in the early part of this thread. There are some "innies" who have left TWI in their hearts but continue to stick around because their spouse, or sometimes their kids or parents, are still there. Have they left? And there are some people who have been "out" for a long time, but they still espouse the principal facts of the doctrine. They defend it in these threads. Have they left? And there are those who were kicked out and feel bad, humiliated, guilty, ashamed, or are still hurting. They think the organization is fine but they are at fault. They might want to go back, if they're good enough, or eat enough humble pie, or they simply can't settle in mainstream churches. Have they left? At what point do you "leave"? For me, I probably "left" after I'd discovered the Cafe, when I read all the horror stories of the abuse and realized that what had happened to me was simply a part of the modus operandi and very little to do with me personally. But they'd booted me over a decade earlier and self-condemnation had left me miserable but still Waybrained.

Am assuming you have asked her for details of these great Godly works that she is doing, that delay her. The blessings on the lives of others. The benefit to them. How it helps their walk to be better. Ha ha. You could try telling her God is a God of order. If you make plans in a "Godly way" (= to meet up together at such and such a time) then tell her God knows about those plans and knew about them at the time the arrangement was made, and she should continue to work within them. That will open the door for God to bless her. Anything else is a distraction from the devil, who is always keen to frustrate God's plans. God wants things to be done decently and in order. That involves turning up not just on time, but 10 mins early for appointments. How can you expect God to work in you, if you can't even stick to a simple plan like turning up on time? Also, when you say you are going to do a thing, you should do it. Let your yea be yea, etc. Of these, they are very much Way doctrine, but something of a corruption of Biblical principles by Way doctrine - out of context, etc. Chockfull's idea of cancelling out on her isn't bad, either. You'd clearly be following her great leadership.

Wow, follow the links on the books, and you'll end up at Amazon where two booksellers claim to have NEW copies of teh Blue Book, one selling at $107 and the other selling at $119 (plus shipping costs). (Used copies are available from $12.99) Huh, I really must sell mine. The whole set. Josey reads the entire Bible through every month? He has read it entirely 260 times? And still finds time to do all these other wonderful things, put together all these classes? Not - ummm - plagiarizing the plagiarizer at all? No, he gives acknowledgment to VPW. From whom he learned well.

"Dickie the test kitty" - LOL! And can you add some video of Chandler here? My mum's cat used to follow her round the village, running from hedge bottom to hedge bottom following mum. Mum would walk up the hill with my dad (depending on what shift he was on) - he would push his bike, and they would stroll up the hill. Kitty would be lurking around behind them observing. Then when mum came home, Kitty would skip through hedges, following mum till in a final spurt she was sitting on the doorstep when mum got home. But all of our family cats (of which many) have had great personalities. My two - yes, even Crypto - have taken to yelling at me if I don't let them out. They love to go out and roll and wriggle on the warm concrete. They have their fave places to lurk in the garden. It has been really hot lately and as often as not they are in the house where it is cooler. About 10 days ago, it was raining, only lightly, but nonetheless wet. They stood in the doorway gazing out and then turned and glared at me. Clearly the rain was all my fault. I may need to fit the cat door, though they are both too stupid to work out how to open the proper door if it is left ajar, so how long it would take them to manage the cat door is questionable. Trouble is, if I fit the cat door, no way of keeping other cats out. No way of fitting a little magnetic collar to either of my two. They love to be out at dusk. They chase the moths. They are really acrobatic in their leaps. No doubt they will learn that a moth 4ft up in the air isn't likely a successful catch. If they are out in the day, they like the kitchen door left open. But that's not what I want (an invitation to burglars?) so I close it. And these two little faces will peer at me through the glass in the door - their expressions of bewilderment, abandonment, fear, horror, clearly writ for all to see.

She has recently been taken to "a London clinic" - allegedly taken away by Police under the Mental Health Act. That was a few days ago. No news since. Poor woman needs a rest from all this publicity. Paparazzi, speculation, hype - enough to give anyone a "nervous breakdown."

It's easy to understand this woman's "breakdown" or whatever it is. Intense hype, build-up, ra-ra-ra...and then it all falls flat. The stress of it must be enormous. (I'm looking for a job; I interview really well; then they say I was just "pipped at the post. Just at that, it knocks me out for the rest of the day. So for this young woman with mega-hype and a genuine and realistic expectation of success...her disappointment must be equally intense.) However, just because she didn't win the contest doesn't mean it's all over for her. Her talent has been showcased and if anyone wants to pick it up and give her a chance, hey, she's out there. She has acquired a real following - and as you guys show, that following is not just in the UK but in America also.She's had her 15 minutes of fame and then some. More than so very many others will ever achieve. All the best to her.

A nice evening in the garden. The courgettes are all planted (including the "spare" ones, which if I get down your way soon, gc, I will uproot and bring with me - no promises) and so are some little cabbages (type unknown). Some of my plants simply weren't thriving in pots so they are now in the garden in one of two "nursery" areas (or "last chance saloon"!). Easier to water, more space to spread their roots, and if it is the compost, well, there is other real soil with decent own-made compost enriching it. If they survive, good; if not, tthey'll just ... disappear. Oh, the cabbages are "sacrificial" to cabbage white butterflies, but till the cabbage whites discover them, there are still some nice leaves which I pluck every so often. Still taste good. I have chopped off the flowers (and the flowers on the chard). They haven't gone to seed yet, and so are now ... preparing to enrich the soil next year. Cannibalistic, really. It's been pleasant out in the garden, out till dusk, only just come in (10 pm) - the cats have been playing on the lawn and trying to catch moths. A very homely scene.

Plan on going to the garden centre on Thurs. It's a repuable garden centre. I had 3 bags of the stuff last year and only have 1/2 bag left. All the rest is in pots with other things. The plants in those pots are all ... not thriving and somewhat yellowish on the leaves. As to the remaining 1/2 bag, probably it would be all right as general garden compost, but for container plants it doesn't seem to be doing any favours. I now have ONE sturdy bean plant. There are a few others "crowning" so that I should have about 5 others up tomorrow. That's if the slugs don't get there first. Leafy, hurry up with that chicken!!! About 77 beans I put in.... One for the slug and one for the crow One to rot and one to grow Old English country adage. If I got 20 beans that would be plenty. Maybe I will put some more in, see what's raised its head by the end of the week.

Ductape and Geisha, very sorry to hear of the loss of these people, specially you, Geisha. This is off topic, but I'd really just like to remind readers of the importance of making a will, ESPECIALLY if you are not married to the person you are living with (as Geisha mentions). Few countries recognise living together as "marriage" and afford few rights to long-term lovers and "step children" - a partner's kids that may have raised by the deceased but where there is no legal responsibility. So on top of the loss of a lover/partner or "parent" there may also be the loss of a home if it was in the deceased's name; the break-up of a secure family unit; and in any event significant other legal difficulties. The surviving partner can be appointed as executor (and perhaps guardian of any minor chidren - beware of conflict with surviving natural parents), and given a certified copy of the will. This may help to overcome some of the difficulties. And when you make a will, review it after significant changes (like the breakup of the cohabiting relationship!!)

The abundant life is spiritual abundance - not necessarily physical abundance. It is completely against the scriptures to expect only good things to happen. In fact, both in the gospels and the OT there are records of significant BAD things that happened. And not just to people who are low in believing (to use a Way doctrine) but to those who are standing strongly for God. Jesus himself warns that people will have trouble. Didn't he himself have a little trouble from people? Mocked, laughed at, not believed; homeless/no fixed abode; constantly harassed by religious leaders; finally falsely arrested, beaten and murdered? (That's the example of an abundant life :blink: ?) Paul in Acts fame finds himself in serious sh1t more than a few times. Being stoned, or beaten, or chased out of town - isn't exactly abundant living, is it :blink: ? Yet anything bad that happens to a Way believer is either due to that person's lack of believing, or to a devilish attack. Couldn't possibly be just because that's the way things are. Or worse, one's own lack of preparation or ability... could it? But couple this with 1 John 3 - I wish above all things that thou mayest prosper and be in health - and you have a real problem with "material abundance doctrine." Prosper is a good old English word meaning "thrive" in the sense of "growing well." Not in the sense of getting rich, which at that time was more an incidental use of the word. There was power in the prayers of people at an individual level. Certainly I saw answered prayers in the life of the person who witnessed to me; that's what showed me something different from repetitious "churchy" prayers. But the longer one was around, the more the power seemed to be exercised from further up the "Way tree" upon adherents, than a real exercise of God's power. The power in believers' lives and prayers was more in spite of, than because of, TWI. People learned in PFAL of God's promises and were told they could believe for [whatever] and some did so. But as one became more involved, that power became subsumed by too much dogma and legalism - one was expected to give glory to TWI for teaching about this wonderful power - rather than give glory to God. In fact, PFAL itself teaches "selfish prayers" like "I want red drapes" not "Your will be done." And so - we "prosper" because God graciously grants us material things that we fancy and we learn to "put God in a box," restrict His Power, and curb his spiritual abundance. And yet PFAL is the same class that taught: God can only give what he is - his gift of holy spirit.

Well, so far this year my garden is a disappointment. It was really hot and dry; then cold and wet; now hot and dry again. The soil is clayey and either heavy (when wet) or a dust bowl (when dry). I planted runner beans and none have come up. My rhubarb started out well and has just about given up. My salad seeds aren't doing anything at all. Other seeds really doing anything either, just not germinating. My hanging baskets are just as originally planted. My courgettes need to be planted out (sorry gc to hear about yours). I had (note tense) some marigolds - seeds - only 6 tiny plants grew - I left them uncovered last night and all but one have been eaten (the slime trail betrays the culprit). What is thriving is the chard and my savoy cabbages (both last years) which have bolted. The cabbages are over 6 ft tall and the chard must be 5 ft, including their pretty flowers. I have decided to leave at least some of these as sacrificial plants. Maybe the slugs and snails will eat them instead of this year's chosen crops (that's if this year's chosen crops decided to grow at all). I am suspecting my compost. All the stuff that is not doing well is in the same compost. I have other bigger plants in this same compost or where I put them in a bigger pot with this compost or scraped away the top of their old potting material, and somehow they don't look quite as vigorous as they should. It came from the garden centre so you'd think it should be all right but it's the one consistent thing among my pot plants that aren't thriving or have died/disappeared. So how does my garden grow this year? Meeaaahh! PS If I could train the girlies to chase slugs and snails, now that would be good.

Gosh, your girlfriend's response is entirely normal for a "Wayfer." Unusual for leadership to be so "out there" and open in their condemnation of you, so early in the piece. Or perhaps you are particularly observant, and have lots of experience of genuinely Godly Christians. Stay sharp; you will need to. Are they still calling people "possessed"? If they are, you'll probably be deemed to be such, at some stage. Why else would you wish to draw her away from "the greatness of God's Word" aka TWI? God has called us to live in grace, not legalism. With outward manifestation of love; not in fear. They are a roaring lion (and, as they teach, a roaring lion is not attacking you, but trying to terrify you). Withstand the devil TWI and he will flee. Do check out those threads posted earlier. You will see the way it is likely to develop. What you will be up against.

Have a look at these two threads to see how things worked for someone in very much your situation: http://www.greasespotcafe.com/ipb/index.ph...st&p=405274 http://www.greasespotcafe.com/ipb/index.ph...st&p=405909 Brushstroke is still a Cafe denizen, if you want to ask him anything by, say, private messaging him.

Welcome to the Cafe! This is an interesting place, and sad to say, you will find others in the same situation as yourself. A lot will depend on how long she has been associated with the fellowship she attends, and how close her friendships there really are (probably nothing like as close as she thinks). At some stage she will have to make the choice between you and her fellowship / TWI. Whatever objections either of you has, have probably been discussed (more than once) here at the Cafe. You could find suitable argument / discussion / ammunition and also likely responses.

I don't think anybody hates it, Paw; I certainly don't. But it does have ... a rather different flavor from this one. Maybe it's the contrast that makes it a little hair raising at times. Some non-Corps see it for something it definitely isn't. I'm glad it's there and am pleased to have caught up with some of my Corps bros and sisters that otherwise I probably would never have heard from. I knew some great people there and have often wondered what became of them. Hey, Rocky you call it about like it is.