Twinky

Tag, your opinion is as valid as that of any other person here. You have the right to speak. Welcome! Some people have greater insight than others of the "bigger picture" or generally have more wisdom. Many people here still profess to be Christians; others say they don't believe in any of it any more. You will have to choose for yourself (yes, for yourself! You get to choose!) who you think are the most reliable posters, and who you think has an ax to grind. You do not have to accept anyone's opinion or advice: but it's a fool who ignores the lot. You will find posters who have thought deeply about issues who can disagree, but who do it politely. Allow your mind to be flexible and to change opinions. I'm glad you found PFAL helpful. You did learn some things - some things that are true and worth holding onto. Many of these things are hard to find in churches. I never learned much of anything in my Anglican church, either. Just as ignorant as you in the RCs. Many people here have similar reports. PFAL seemed like the answer to a prayer for me, too. Perhaps it was. But just because that was the answer - doesn't mean that I should have stuck around as long as I did. Should have observed the red flags in word and action as displayed by the "believers," and not brushed the red flags off as "It's just that person." The difficulty is working out what is true without the TWI private interpretation of what they say is true. That's why it helps to consider the views of mature posters here.

Well, I am trying with two things. First, I watered everything with Epsom Salts. These are supposed to be high in Magnesium and Sulphur, which improves uptake of other nutrients. That was last week. This week I have given everything a dose of Miracle-Gro. It's hardly rained at all, which probably doesn't help things! What's doing really well is the sweetcorn, which I've never tried growing before.

Just a thought. The wording under a Topic heading (the description) is in really tiny type, and it may be helpful if that could be perhaps a size larger?

Thank you, Shell. So many things would have been different, had he lived long. I may not even have got into TWI! Being a good role model for children is so important. I guess this was at the top of my heart, with reading some of the things on the Ephesians 6:1 thread. Am thankful he (and my mum) made a safe place to raise their kids. I'm sorry for the irreplaceable loss of your husband.

Looks like the icon for Go to last unviewed post is working properly now. Thanks. This "fast reply" box is good, too.

I just looked in on this thread. Which I have read in its entirety. Because I don't have any patience with those who say they couldn't be bothered to read the thread, or haven't followed it, and just stick some post in anyway. Session 12 almost terrified people into SIT. Instead of being something soothing, exhilarating, longed for - it became something to be "worked for." I felt pressured and worried. What if I didn't do it? What if I couldn't perform? And that's not how God works. Other first-time class participants have felt similarly. But talk to them soothingly, gently, privately, and don't try to shame or embarrass them, just allow them to relax with God, and out it comes. The "12 benefits of SIT" that Waysider mentions was always a problem for me - for some of the reasons Waysider mentions. How can you make something bigger, better, stronger, than it is, if it's already perfect? And - these 12 benefits seem repetitive, some saying the same things in slightly different words. If VPW had "kept it simple, stupid" and given only one or two supposed benefits instead of trying to show off his academic prowess (gag), then maybe we would have actually enjoyed that session. Incidentally I think there is evidence that there was some sort of "pseudo-SIT" thing going on in Paul's time, since he has to say that "no man can call Christ accursed" when SIT and that suggests to me that there had been some SIT-like practice already going on at the time that new Christians were uncertain about. Perhaps they had seen something similar in pagan worship. Ultimately, the question is not whether or not SIT is real, whether what TWI taught was true or false in part or whole, but - where's your heart at?

My dad was very special in so many ways. First, he should never have been born...his mother thought she was on the "change" and didn't know she was pregnant! This one pound surprise baby was obviously born very prematurely and had to be put in a shoe box and covered in cotton wool and fed through an eye dropper. He survived his childhood and was well fed (over fed) by his mother. When he met my mother, my father was 20 and weighed about 20 stone (280lb) which for a man of 5'8" is way too much. They married and had 3 children. When the youngest was just a babe, in a push chair, he had a massive heart attack and was told by the doctors that he would be unlikely to survive. My father decided that leaving his much loved wife, two older children (I was only 8 or so, my brother 6-ish) and the new baby was not a good idea, and through little more than his love for them, survived. He dropped a lot of weight and went down to 11 stone (about 150 lb) and was always cautious about his weight after that. Because of his heart attack, he could not resume his prior work and was reduced in rank to other duties. This involved shift working and sometimes we didn't see much of him. However, he loved to polish all our shoes as a tangible way of showing his love for us, even if he didn't see us. We always went to school with shiny shoes. Dad would do anything (legal) to help anybody and loved to be of service. He visited my great grandparents (on my mother's side) daily even though my great grandma wouldn't often speak with him. He gave far more than he received, and though he helped friends through difficult times, the same cannot always be said for them when we hit difficult times. In my teen years, mum and I fought horribly and I ran away from home. He was the peacemaker and brought us back together again. He was always loving and I remember only one occasion (in those teen years) when he spanked me. He was so upset at doing that, that I mended my behavior immediately. He was my ally against my very strict mum, and sometimes took my side against her. It was difficult for all of us. In my later years I welcomed his advice and friendship. Unfortunately he died when I was 20 and it would be fair to say that our family has not been the same since. His presence is still sorely missed by all of us, and it's 35 years later. Dad had a great sense of fun and a zest for life. His passions in life were: his wife, his wife and his wife. Closely followed by his family, his family and his family. Dad loved God and was a sidesman at his church. I don't think you could call him "passionate" about God, but he participated actively all his life, was on the church council, and it was a significant part of his life. He just lived it, but he never pushed anything onto us. The church was full at his funeral (only gets that full at Christmas, usually). I was almost happy at his funeral. I was glad that such a good man had gone to be with God and would not have any more pain or physical suffering. Though I believe differently now, I still believe God has a special place for him and that at the bema the words he hears will be: "Well done, my good and faithful servant." I was going to say, He never did anything remarkable. But he did. Whilst recovering from his heart attack, on his first outing, we were at the seaside and two or three girls got into difficulties and were drowning. Without hesitating, he plunged in and rescued one (another man went in after another girl). Mum thought he was going to have another heart attack right there and then. He was no genius. He had no academic achievements. He was ambitious for nothing except to be a good husband and father. He had love, kindness and compassion for everyone. He was generous in heart and generous in money (if the family had any to spare - and even if we didn't). He was my Dad. And I miss him still. Yes, he was special.

My picture (avatar) doesn't seem to be there. Guess it needs to be re-loaded. This all looks so different.... Ooh, like the Smileys box! ****** Oh. Now I posted this...the picture is there. Guess it must go and grab information when somebody posts the first thing in this new format. ****** Gosh, I see it's three years since I joined the Cafe. Three years of getting my head back together. It's gone by quicklyl

Bloody hell, Rummie, that looks very bad. What dimwit tried that? (Musta been way over the two-drink limit, LOL.)

Was looking for some broken glass to crawl over on my way back to TWI. Crawled in the door of the Cafe. Liked the taste of the coffee and stayed.

Hey, JC knew what he was letting himself in for. He said his Father would send angels to rescue him, if he (JC) asked. He could have run away, or just plain not gone to Jerusalem. He read the scriptures. He knew that torture and death awaited him. He even read the scriptures that WW has quoted! He wasn't expecting some miracle rescue from death while he was on the cross: he'd seen enough animals sacrificed (or otherwise killed) to know that dead meant dead. Yet he knew that God wouldn't leave or forsake him: his Father was always with him. He knew he would be resurrected after three days: he had not long since raised Lazarus from the dead; he had read about people raised from the dead in the OT; he threw the sign of Jonah in the Pharisees' faces; he had himself said that this temple (his body) would be raised in three days. I doubt his words would be "why have you forsaken me?" It just doesn't seem logical. The "cry of triumph" espoused by TWI/Walter Cumm1ns in the 80s sounds more logical. But is it correct? Could it have been some words quoted from the ceremony [which we know nothing about] when the sins of the nation were transferred onto the live goat to bear away the sins? Or at the time the other goat was sacrificed? What might you say, if you were dying in the course of doing something heroic? "Sh1t, this hurts." "It's what you wanted." "The price is paid." "You've got what you wanted; now fulfil your part of the bargain." "Is it worth it?" "It's worth it!" ...What do battle-injured and dying soldiers say? Apparently lots of them call out for their mothers! Wouldn't JC call out for his mother Mary, or his Father, God? Perhaps the words sounded like the commonly-quoted words and were so recorded (by whom? The centurion? Did he speak Aramaic?) Perhaps they were something slightly different. Or perhaps the words had some other meaning that has now been lost - changed their meaning "in the original" over the millennia (like "prevent" = pre-vent, precede, in English). There will come a day when you can ask him...if you dare.

Sometimes something you want "just happens" for you. Sometimes you read just the thing you need to read, or hear just the thing you need to hear. Sometimes doors open where they seemed to be shut; opportunities arise where there seemed to be none. Sometimes it's walking out with a thankful heart and suddenly a patch of sunshine falls right on you. Sometimes it's the very thing you need to meet a need. Sometimes a hug, or a kind word, from a friend. Sometimes it's a "just knowing" something. Why limit God to words? Words are only a way of expressing thoughts or heart-desires anyway. I don't have a problem with God communicating with me or any other believer. I really DO have a problem with TWI's idea that God being spirit can only talk to spirit. That "unbelievers" have no connection with God. It's part of their way of limiting God, cutting him off from people (as if!!). It's partly through his wonderful works and the physical things around us that he communicates: with believers and unbelievers alike. God is not a respecter of persons. Does he not care for us ALL - whether we believe (in) him or not?

Ubuntu is something real? I thought Ham was joking and it went along with pseudo-SIT.

Dooj! It's your birthday? Hey, have a great one. I was so pleased to meet you, and always enjoy your thoughtful posts.

Ah well. They didn't agree with "suffer [permit] little children" Their motto was "Suffer! Little children!!"

A friend of mine who is still in has told me that there are several branches in the U.S.A. that are run by Advanced Class grads. Interesting, huh? In the past, Way Corps ran pretty much everything. These branches consist of two or more fellowships. (Even more interesting, huh? Two fellowships - a branch...scarcely a decent sized "twig".) It appears that now TWI've run off many of the WC, and there are not too many able followers who willing to "rise up." Looks like the Way is shrinking fast and they are filling in the holes with normal people. Such rise and expansion .

's all ready so set. Maybe it's not possible to stop the adverts on Hotmail. After all that's what keeps it free of charge.

Well, after recommendations from lots of people (including those on this site) I've started using Mozilla Firefox, and rather like it. In fact, I never use IE now although it still wants to update itself. Whenever it so attempts, it really upsets all the settings on my wireless connection. Just not worth the effort. How do I set the browser to block pop-ups? Or maybe it is properly set - it's the annoying adverts on my Hotmail account that I'd like to get rid of. Maybe WW could PM me, so as not to derail this thread. Thanks.

"State leaders"? - WTF?? Has TWI abandoned the "tree" analogy? Wouldn't the state leader be - the Governor? The Senator?? (LOL) So what are Reyn0lds, Harve P and Moneyhands assigned to do? Hey, innies, let's have a list of ... all these people that we don't know ... and all their fake jobs. BTW, some trees are notorious for throwing up parasitic saplings from their roots. These are known as "suckers." In devising this analogy, VPW forgot about suckers... http://www.rhs.org.uk/advice/profiles1004/treesuckers.asp

Wish I had taken more pix when I was in rez. I go through phases,n at times taking quite a lot of photos and other times never touching my camera. But when in rez, there were the twin problems of (1) finding the money to buy film, then develop and print photos, out of the $30/month allowance; and (2) getting out and about to somewhere that could D&P (there was very little free time, for anything). Supposed I could have asked visiting spiritual partners or other people who came in; but those poor willing souls (God bless 'em) could often find themselves quite put upon by the needy in rez corps. Some of my Corps however did manage to take some photos - well, they did on LEAD but I myself might have managed an exception for that - but most of the time, we didn't. I did find the class pic taken at conclusion of my first PFAL. ...Who were all these people? And I have copies of a few other class pix of later PFALs - who were all those people? In part, the 'no photos' thing (especially as it relates to alleged cop-outs) is "forgetting those things you've left behind". But that doesn't exactly square with HQ taking their own photos of classes, events, productions, etc. I don't remember any specicfic doctrine or teaching on this. Oh wait, yes I do. I remember some sort of slide show where LCM was showing us some slides of some party in the Big Top. There was a pic of someone who had recently "copped out" and LCM couldn't get past that quick enough and made some remark in less than complimentary tones. A little later in the same slide show, there was a slide of me dancing with someone and he flicked past that pretty quick too. Always thought my days were numbered, after that. However, I did manage to hang on to graduate and then for a while after that, too. What I do remember from the mid to late 80s is that the music of alleged cop-out musicians was HEAVILY frowned-upon and banned. You would get divil spirits from listening to such material.

I just skimmed this thread for the first time... Wasn't/Isn't there a sign over the door of the BRC saying something like, "The Good Old Days are NOW!"? Heck, those who are innies now (but not yet posters here) might well look back in 10 years or so on their time now and think it was the good old days. Some of the best people I have ever met have been in TWI. Some of the worst people I have ever met have been in TWI. I knew nobody already in when I joined. I know some people now that I maintain still contact with. Am friends with, even. Am glad to know. There are others that I have not yet heard of/been in contact with that I would like to know about. Then there are are the other people ... that I would have difficulty being anywhere near. They are few and far between. Brainfixed, your time will probably pan out like that too. It wasn't all bad, it certainly wasn't all good. It's looking at it for what it was, and trying to find a balanced view. Not wildly one extreme or another. What does it take to make your heart peaceful? Your head is a bit of a whirl but you sound like you're "getting there." Be patient with yourself. The rubbish in your head wasn't put there overnight and it won't be cleaned out overnight, either. Dooj says some good stuff.

Hey, Ham, knock it off! I spent ... too long... on Bevvy crew. I always seem to get assigned to Bevvy crew on big weekends, events, etc. It made for a horribly long day. Up early to turn on the hot water machine, make, serve, wash the containers, more HW, make, serve... and so on. Funny I never looked to see if it was Decaf or not. And I don't remember that I ever had a cup of it ... too darn busy to pause even that long! And now I find myself, just occasionally, on Bevvy crew at Church. Where I do find time for a cup of coffee. What a mug! (lol, get it? ) No MoGs in sight, though. I think next time I am on Bevvy duty - but why wait that long? - I will take a cup of coffee out to the whoever delivers the sermon, as s/he stands bidding farewell to people at the door.

This is what Jeff is referring to: What we're looking at here is the situation where perhaps both had been unbelievers, one had been won to Christ, and the other still hadn't made up his or her mind, continuing to follow the old beliefs and worship of Diana, Artemis, or whoever. We are not talking about the OT situation of the Chosen ones taking foreign spouses. Yes, culturally wives were supposed to follow their husbands and believe what their men believed. But actually, women do have their own minds and brains, to think with! Paul's advice was basically that the behavior of the believing spouse should be a witness of God's love for the unbelieving spouse, and so win the unbelieving spouse to God. But if the unbelieving spouse refused to behave in a reasonable manner, then the believing spouse had no duty to put up with that. But of course, TWI took no attention to Paul's exhortations (and here this thread ties into the Submission thread): This spousal abuse is not unique to TWI. Some years ago, I met a fine woman (in a matrimonial situation) - husband was a leader in the Salvation Army - she led a terrible life and when she complained to the other elders, she was told that she needed to submit more (sound familiar?). Her husband's anger and abuse were her fault! Poor woman couldn't stand it any more and sought a divorce. The legalities of the divorce were one thing, but her head couldn't get round leaving him. I shared these verses with her and pointed out that the husband, in beating her, wasn't doing what he should be doing as a leader, that he was unbelieving, that if she continued to live with him that was bondage and Christ had called us to be free. She obviously thought about that a lot and the next time she came into the office, she was really changed and she said these verses had set her free. I have encountered ex TWI women who have been beaten, threatened with weapons, and physically abused. This often follows significant emotional abuse and systematic belittling. Other women have "merely" been emotionally abused - the damage from that can be much much worse. VPW abused and belittled his own wife privately, whilst vaunting their marriage in public. That's the example he set. If your private treatment of your spouse differs from your public treatment of that same person - why? (Do you know the word "hypocrite"?) For women: if you were with Jesus two millennia ago - would he treat you like your husband is doing? For men: if you were with Jesus two millennia ago - would you have seen him treat his followers, men or women, in the way you are treating your wife? There are enough examples of Jesus being with women to form an opinion! (edited cos I couldn't get my quote references in the right way!

Aw, what a beauty. Congratulations to Mum and Dad !! and to all the other !!!! on the new addition to the family. Mum and Dad look VERY pleased with themselves.

I foresee a time when they will charge the visitors to HQ for the cups of coffee offered at big weekends, SNS, etc. Gotta steward that ABS properly, you know.