Twinky

Welcome, Alex!! Good to see someone else from Europe here. I think you are right. A lot of exWay folk have migrated to CFFM or set up their own ministries. There are quite a lot on France, in Germany, and in Scandinavia. Did you ever visit at Gartmore when that was part of TWI or its European offshoot? Enjoy your visits to the Cafe!

Breaking news from an Innie friend: Great new announcement for followers of The Way: The in-residence Way Corps had the privilege of taking a witnessing and undershepherding class taught by Rev Chavisty. Now on the field, all foundational class grads can take it free of charge. It is a 3 hour class with a break for lunch and 1 hour of witnessing. In addition, there is a new class coming out next year, "The Renewed Mind, Your Key to Power." Dress it up anyway you want, looks a way to get more people and more money. Way disciple and Way Corps numbers are down. Faithful grads are not into witnessing, and lots of fellowships have seen no growth. Classes are hard to run, even though a small branch can run a class with only 3 new people and a medium-sized branch with only 5 new people. What a far cry from the minimum required 7 new people for PFAL - and a branch might run 2-3 classes a year! With numbers falling and income drying up, what a great plan - give people a free taste of Way Corps training. No yelling or browbeating, just a free class to get people to go witness. And once they have taken the class, why would they not want to apply it every week?

Okay, I'm just picking up on complaints about portaloos. Field Corps were usually assigned to clean portaloos - "to keep them meek" (yeah right). I got this task several years running (but then, I was always being told I wasn't meek enough). And I have to say that I kept the banks of portas for which I was responsible spotlessly clean, smell free and a pleasure to use. I can't speak for whoever cleaned the men's toilets. Maybe they didn't do such a good job. Or maybe some of you men should have stopped using the bushes. Nobody cleaned them.

Well, in view of his ability to alienate people, even those who supported him at one time, it certainly wasn't the ministry of reconciliation!! I think he was supposed to have the "gift ministry" of a teacher. TWI was very keen on the "gift ministries" shown in Ephesians of apostle, prophet, evangelist, pastor and teacher. Here's some they never mentioned: Was he a prophet? Did he "minister" effectively? A teacher? Exhortation, yes? (yeah right). Giving? No, but good at receiving gifts! Ruling? Only with an iron fist! Showing mercy (yeah, right [head in hands, shaking head])? (And mercy with cheerfulness!!) Now he's out in the "real world" I'd really like to think that he is seeing the error of his ways and has begun to understand some of what he has done wrong. Maybe learn a little meekness. Begin to understand what this means, instead of the phony definition TWI gave it: edited for typeface size

Probably demonstrating screwing in Aisle 12.

Kinda goes along with the epithet, "It'll all be the same in 100 years' time." Most things, for most people, really don't matter, long-term. It's "who you are that matters" - if anything does!

An interesting one, this. What do we know about her early life? If what has been said is actually true (and none of us really do know), she must have been a feisty sort of young woman, - she trained to be a nurse, didn't she, and ran away with VPW because her parents disapproved of the marriage? [How wise her parents were!] When did they get married? How long was it before the first child came along? Having children may have made it much harder to leave, for many reasons. They had several children before he went to India, before he split with his denomination and set up on his own/founded TWI. The alleged incident with one of his parishioners resulting in her pregnancy would have taken place before he founded TWI and surely she cannot have been unaware of it (if it happened). [Didn't Rhoda come from that church background too? (Or was that Dorothy?) Hmm. What did they know, do they get a free pass too?] Was Dotsie his first victim? Or was she complicit? At what point does one denounce one's own husband? She knew where he'd got much of his material from. How many "live classes" of PFAL must she have been aware of or sat through, before it was recorded? In later years, she saw more and more people, especially young women, being drawn into TWI. She knew about his shenanigans with Corps women; one poster here says she held her hand as she sobbed after being assaulted. Yet never did she say anything. Abused women do, time after time, leave - then return - to their husbands; accept the husband's trifling opinion of them; believe themselves worthless; enjoy the public presence whilst fearing the private presence. How many victims of abuse do go on to become abusers themselves? There comes a point when a victim ceased to be just a victim and becomes an abuser or abets an abuser, and becomes culpable themselves. Huh, even VPW said, "Don't judge a man till you've walked a mile in his shoes" (not, of course, his original thought). Perhaps he was thinking, "Don't judge Dotsie till you know what's happened to her." (Though it was probably more like, "Don't even think of judging me!") God is the searcher of hearts....

Ham, you agreeing with me? Or with Bolshy? SkyRider: like your ref to Ruth Madoff. So it looks so far like, No free pass. But no doubt others will join in this discussion. Who knows, from way (Way??) back? Thanks, DWBH, we were posting simultaneously. Your opinion carries a lot of weight, for me.

And so the effects of TWI continue to ripple out through the community. Poor woman. You may be able to help her a lot but it may be wise not to go into too much detail, which could be even more distressing.

Before her kids were old enough to take her in. When they were just little. So it would be hard for a woman to leave her husband, with several small kids; don't know what support if any would have been available. Her own family? But...if she knew he was plagiarizing the work of others, and didn't say anything, that makes her an accomplice. Maybe he did keep her in the dark; he refers to discussing things with Ros Rinker. Hard to think that he didn't discuss with Dotsie. Or did VPW scam Dotsie, too? Any early Corps want to weigh in here?

There's a significant body of opinion here at the Café to the effect that VPW knew that PFAL / TWI was a scam – out to get money, and that he wasn't a genuine minister but (wording differs) a shyster, charlatan, snake-oil salesman, etc. It was set up as a scam, right from the beginning. It is also widely believed at the Café that he plagiarized the principal books (PFAL and RHST) and also used other people's work which he passed off as his own. It was a scam. People here are happy to say that. And those same people are happy to give Mrs Wierwille, Dotsie, a free pass. She is seen as a victim of VPW's sexual profligacy, and there seems to be no doubt that she was aware of his behavior in that direction. But ... does she deserve the free pass? She was with him right from the beginning. She supported him in his early years. She was a woman who could speak and act for herself: she ran away with him (apparently). She wasn't cowed by his "greatness" then. She was around when he was thrown out of his original church. She participated in his trip to India. She was there when he began to get involved with BG Leonard. She must have seen BG's book in the house; probably read it. And surely the original founding trustees didn't get together without discussing it with their wives? And yes, it was "another time" when she was younger, when VPW got going with his "ministry," and it may have been harder for a woman to leave her husband – but women did leave their husbands and did divorce them. So…does she really deserve the free pass? Didn't her support help the TWI juggernaut get off the ground (before it crushed her too!)? She didn't speak up right in the beginning, when she knew and could nip it in the bud. Doesn't that silence, and her enjoyment of the "benefits" make her also a scammer?

Back to the original question: according to my Strong's Concordance, the word Apostelloo #649 is from #575 "apo" "off" or "away" denoting separation; and #4724 stelloo meaning "set fast [firmly]", "represss" [abstain from associating with], "avoid, withdraw oneself". Strong's gives the definition of "apostelloo" as "to send out (probably on a mission); lit or fig; put in, send (away, forth, out), set (at liberty)" Nothing there about "light". However, I have a recollection (which could be wrong) about candlesticks and the candlestick held a light (candle) Now a stele [Greek] is an upright stone (but its root indicates that it is something fixed in place) and [Latin] stella means "star" and it wouldn't surprise me in the slightest if VPW knowingly or unknowingly confused these two languages so that a star on a stick = light and with the "out" part from "apo" came to mean "light going out from" or "bringing new light" The ancients did refer to constellations as being the "fixed stars" (as opposed to "wandering stars" which we now know as planets). Strong's also gives apostolos #652 meaning "a delegate or ambassador, officially a commissioner of Christ, ie apostle, messenger, he that is sent."

Tom asked: This is the lifestyle that God and the Lord Jesus would have us live...helping one another. Just helping, out of a pure heart and with no expectation of reward. Jesus makes the point that even "sinners" know how to be nice to other people; his "value" was that we should love our enemies. Who's a "sinner" in this context? Well, that's another topic. And as we all know, Jesus wasn't a "Christian." Jewish values, then? Luke 5:31 And as ye would that men should do to you, do ye also to them likewise. 32 For if ye love them which love you, what thank have ye? for sinners also love those that love them. 33 And if ye do good to them which do good to you, what thank have ye? for sinners also do even the same. 34 And if ye lend to them of whom ye hope to receive, what thank have ye? for sinners also lend to sinners, to receive as much again. 35 But love ye your enemies, and do good, and lend, hoping for nothing again; and your reward shall be great, and ye shall be the children of the Highest: for he is kind unto the unthankful and to the evil. 36 Be ye therefore merciful, as your Father also is merciful. But in any event, it's not a uniquely Christian/Jewish value, to be supportive of one's neighbor. For poorer or subsistence-level tribes, it may be the only way they can live at all. Bravo Billy for his uncomplicated goodness of heart. He's a great example. Tom, can you offer mutual help ... like reading lessons?

What interesting things you miss when you're field Corps, and have the privilege of serving by scrubbing the portaloos! Bravo the guy who tossed the armband at the tosser

Brainfixed, I don't know what injuries (physical or mental) you suffered, but suffer you did. I don't want to sound trite, but you can probably overcome a lot of chronic problems. You are already learning to think better and more clearly (in fact - getting a sound mind, LOL), and that will give health and strength to your whole body. TWI has already damaged your early years and sucked the life out of them. Don't give them the satisfaction of ruining your later years or expecting your life to be foreshortened. Live long and happy, and prove them wrong! TWI insanity IS of the "adversary." So many of their pronouncements are insane. Stay well, be happy

Moments I enjoyed: First week of first year: potatoes had been lifted out of the ground on some field near the hen house. We were all invited to volunteer for work picking up the potatoes. We new recruits soon found that volunteer meant do it anyway. But it was one of those lovely golden evenings and it was soooo nice being out in the field. (Cleaning out the hen house during the same evening wasn't quite so much fun.) Cleaning out Emporia (Euphoria, LOL!) ready for the auction. We worked hard. At least this work had purpose, unlike much "busy-work". The CC was very relaxed and we had some great evenings telling stories and roasting marshmallows. Scrubbing dusty chairs outside Founders in readiness for the Rock - a brilliantly sunny day - just great for a water fight with the hose! And this one: Swimming was banned after dark in the pond near the Wierwille household on the grounds it might disturb Mrs. W. Well, it was a really hot night and being the rebellious sort, I led a younger Corps friend into error by proposing a quiet swim. Nobody ever found out (confession time here!!!) and it was really lovely. Not quite the same category as the early posts on this thread, hardly even "priceless" but memorable good times nonetheless.

Well this is not exactly how MY garden grows, but last night I went out and picked heaps of yellow plums. They are on a load of trees in a playing field. Very tiny, about the size of cherries. And very sweet and delicious. Jam-making, tomorrow. There are also little red plums too, but they are not quite ripe yet. Another raid next weekend, perhaps. Mmmm-mmmm.

Bumping this thread, because it looked like good fun. Perhaps new Cafe arrivals from earlier Corps could add fun recollections. Like Scout on post 128, under the LCM reign, good times were few and far between. You earlier Corps seem to have had so much fun. You were better "educated" too, at least some semblance of it: before all the people with knowledge had been run off.

Welcome, Alex, good to have you here. You are another European believer? Jeepers, marry this person or be put on probation? :blink: :wacko: Haven't heard that one before, at least not so blatantly. I do remember LCM yelling one lunchtime and saying "I'm not gonna tell you who to marry!" but then again, at the same time they did engineer situations where one person was eased out of the marriage so that the other spouse would be able (they hoped) to marry someone they thought s/he would be better married to. You know, husband stands up to leadership (especially protecting wife), he gets eased / kicked out, they want to marry her to someone less protective so that she will be prey to those with less Godly intent. I don't know about the salt covenant being unbiblical; most weddings were and are celebrated with a feast (both families eating together) and the food would be salted. Would indicate peace between the families. I can see it would be a burden though in the TWI situation, where if you broke your salt covenant you were spitting in God's face. What a laugh, who caused most of the marriages to break down? I am going now before I get too worked up. Very interesting subject and it would be good to hear from spouses who stayed and (presumably) have since left. Spouseless.

Potatoes and tomatoes are much the same family and do suffer from similar diseases. Yes, what gets the 'maters will also get the spuds. I have an abundance of courgettes (zucchini), some of which are fast turning into marrows. I did try a sort of fried/sauteed mishmash last night (was it kimberly who recommended it, in In the Kitchen?), didn't look pretty but was tasty. My fridge-freezer is on overdrive and has frozen everything in the fridge, so I was using up some frozen capsicums, tomatoes (bought) and other stuff. The courgettes had also been in the fridge and were frozen solid. Something else to fix! No shortage of things to do when you have a few possessions! Travelling light somehow seems rather attractive at times. Did I tell you I have finally found a purpose in life for cabbage white butterflies? They are wonderful cat sport. My pair of scaredy-pants cats love chasing butterflies of all sorts (maybe I posted something on Cat Whispering??). They spend much time perfecting their hunting skills and leaping in the air and then rush in the house to play with and eat their prey. I have no objection at all to the Large Whites (cabbage whites), but prefer them not to nosh on the Peacocks or Tortoiseshells or the Green-Veined Whites (which are not cabbage whites). This year in fact I don't have much of a problem with the cabbage white butterflies. That's because the woodpigeons have got to the brassicas first, not-lol. Hey, my experimental sweetcorn is going really well, has flowers (flower like spikes, anyway) and there are lots of tiny stamen-like things hanging from them. They all look the same, so am assuming that's right. You experts out there, anything I need to do? They are all planted quite close together for cross-fertilisation purposes.

Too much like an admission of how bad the loss has been, JT. Anyway, it's not so much who's left - but who's still around. That probably shouldn't take too long to type up.

Actually I think I grew old out of The Way. After they'd M&A'd me and abandoned me. First they asked me to take a break for a few months. Nobody was allowed to talk to me. Then I was invited back to fellowship. There I was publicly humiliated and given such a load of abuse that I couldn't think straight for years. Then they all left the city where we'd been WoWs. Left me in this strange city, with a crushing load of guilt and condemnation. No-one to talk to, at all. I hardly remember any of that time. Many years later I discovered the Cafe. The guilt and self-condemnation fell like scales from my eyes. The weight on my shoulders evaporated. My sound mind began to return. I looked in the mirror and saw the lines and haggard look that I had acquired in the past decade. And as my sound mind returned, I saw some of those lines soften, and the haggard look disappear. Yes, people grow old in the Way. They grow older out of the Way. And they grow younger in the Cafe.

Unbelievable response, Oakspear...but actually all too believable. Glad you got out. Rejoice in your freedom. :) So sorry about your wife. Her choice, but they will have to answer for their part in the breakdown. But elsewhere you've said she's also out now, isn't she?

I have a Hotmail account, have done for years. Now "they" have added Messenger and a few of my contacts are in Messenger and most are not. I am not remotely interested in this facility and in fact am annoyed by the silly messages that some contact people post. The FAQ tell you all about how to ADD someone (an existing contact or otherwise) to Messenger, but not how to stop / delete them once added. I'd still like to retain these people as contacts. Any suggestions?