Twinky

And so the effects of TWI continue to ripple out through the community. Poor woman. You may be able to help her a lot but it may be wise not to go into too much detail, which could be even more distressing.

Before her kids were old enough to take her in. When they were just little. So it would be hard for a woman to leave her husband, with several small kids; don't know what support if any would have been available. Her own family? But...if she knew he was plagiarizing the work of others, and didn't say anything, that makes her an accomplice. Maybe he did keep her in the dark; he refers to discussing things with Ros Rinker. Hard to think that he didn't discuss with Dotsie. Or did VPW scam Dotsie, too? Any early Corps want to weigh in here?

There's a significant body of opinion here at the Café to the effect that VPW knew that PFAL / TWI was a scam – out to get money, and that he wasn't a genuine minister but (wording differs) a shyster, charlatan, snake-oil salesman, etc. It was set up as a scam, right from the beginning. It is also widely believed at the Café that he plagiarized the principal books (PFAL and RHST) and also used other people's work which he passed off as his own. It was a scam. People here are happy to say that. And those same people are happy to give Mrs Wierwille, Dotsie, a free pass. She is seen as a victim of VPW's sexual profligacy, and there seems to be no doubt that she was aware of his behavior in that direction. But ... does she deserve the free pass? She was with him right from the beginning. She supported him in his early years. She was a woman who could speak and act for herself: she ran away with him (apparently). She wasn't cowed by his "greatness" then. She was around when he was thrown out of his original church. She participated in his trip to India. She was there when he began to get involved with BG Leonard. She must have seen BG's book in the house; probably read it. And surely the original founding trustees didn't get together without discussing it with their wives? And yes, it was "another time" when she was younger, when VPW got going with his "ministry," and it may have been harder for a woman to leave her husband – but women did leave their husbands and did divorce them. So…does she really deserve the free pass? Didn't her support help the TWI juggernaut get off the ground (before it crushed her too!)? She didn't speak up right in the beginning, when she knew and could nip it in the bud. Doesn't that silence, and her enjoyment of the "benefits" make her also a scammer?

Back to the original question: according to my Strong's Concordance, the word Apostelloo #649 is from #575 "apo" "off" or "away" denoting separation; and #4724 stelloo meaning "set fast [firmly]", "represss" [abstain from associating with], "avoid, withdraw oneself". Strong's gives the definition of "apostelloo" as "to send out (probably on a mission); lit or fig; put in, send (away, forth, out), set (at liberty)" Nothing there about "light". However, I have a recollection (which could be wrong) about candlesticks and the candlestick held a light (candle) Now a stele [Greek] is an upright stone (but its root indicates that it is something fixed in place) and [Latin] stella means "star" and it wouldn't surprise me in the slightest if VPW knowingly or unknowingly confused these two languages so that a star on a stick = light and with the "out" part from "apo" came to mean "light going out from" or "bringing new light" The ancients did refer to constellations as being the "fixed stars" (as opposed to "wandering stars" which we now know as planets). Strong's also gives apostolos #652 meaning "a delegate or ambassador, officially a commissioner of Christ, ie apostle, messenger, he that is sent."

Tom asked: This is the lifestyle that God and the Lord Jesus would have us live...helping one another. Just helping, out of a pure heart and with no expectation of reward. Jesus makes the point that even "sinners" know how to be nice to other people; his "value" was that we should love our enemies. Who's a "sinner" in this context? Well, that's another topic. And as we all know, Jesus wasn't a "Christian." Jewish values, then? Luke 5:31 And as ye would that men should do to you, do ye also to them likewise. 32 For if ye love them which love you, what thank have ye? for sinners also love those that love them. 33 And if ye do good to them which do good to you, what thank have ye? for sinners also do even the same. 34 And if ye lend to them of whom ye hope to receive, what thank have ye? for sinners also lend to sinners, to receive as much again. 35 But love ye your enemies, and do good, and lend, hoping for nothing again; and your reward shall be great, and ye shall be the children of the Highest: for he is kind unto the unthankful and to the evil. 36 Be ye therefore merciful, as your Father also is merciful. But in any event, it's not a uniquely Christian/Jewish value, to be supportive of one's neighbor. For poorer or subsistence-level tribes, it may be the only way they can live at all. Bravo Billy for his uncomplicated goodness of heart. He's a great example. Tom, can you offer mutual help ... like reading lessons?

What interesting things you miss when you're field Corps, and have the privilege of serving by scrubbing the portaloos! Bravo the guy who tossed the armband at the tosser

Brainfixed, I don't know what injuries (physical or mental) you suffered, but suffer you did. I don't want to sound trite, but you can probably overcome a lot of chronic problems. You are already learning to think better and more clearly (in fact - getting a sound mind, LOL), and that will give health and strength to your whole body. TWI has already damaged your early years and sucked the life out of them. Don't give them the satisfaction of ruining your later years or expecting your life to be foreshortened. Live long and happy, and prove them wrong! TWI insanity IS of the "adversary." So many of their pronouncements are insane. Stay well, be happy

Moments I enjoyed: First week of first year: potatoes had been lifted out of the ground on some field near the hen house. We were all invited to volunteer for work picking up the potatoes. We new recruits soon found that volunteer meant do it anyway. But it was one of those lovely golden evenings and it was soooo nice being out in the field. (Cleaning out the hen house during the same evening wasn't quite so much fun.) Cleaning out Emporia (Euphoria, LOL!) ready for the auction. We worked hard. At least this work had purpose, unlike much "busy-work". The CC was very relaxed and we had some great evenings telling stories and roasting marshmallows. Scrubbing dusty chairs outside Founders in readiness for the Rock - a brilliantly sunny day - just great for a water fight with the hose! And this one: Swimming was banned after dark in the pond near the Wierwille household on the grounds it might disturb Mrs. W. Well, it was a really hot night and being the rebellious sort, I led a younger Corps friend into error by proposing a quiet swim. Nobody ever found out (confession time here!!!) and it was really lovely. Not quite the same category as the early posts on this thread, hardly even "priceless" but memorable good times nonetheless.

Well this is not exactly how MY garden grows, but last night I went out and picked heaps of yellow plums. They are on a load of trees in a playing field. Very tiny, about the size of cherries. And very sweet and delicious. Jam-making, tomorrow. There are also little red plums too, but they are not quite ripe yet. Another raid next weekend, perhaps. Mmmm-mmmm.

Bumping this thread, because it looked like good fun. Perhaps new Cafe arrivals from earlier Corps could add fun recollections. Like Scout on post 128, under the LCM reign, good times were few and far between. You earlier Corps seem to have had so much fun. You were better "educated" too, at least some semblance of it: before all the people with knowledge had been run off.

Welcome, Alex, good to have you here. You are another European believer? Jeepers, marry this person or be put on probation? :blink: :wacko: Haven't heard that one before, at least not so blatantly. I do remember LCM yelling one lunchtime and saying "I'm not gonna tell you who to marry!" but then again, at the same time they did engineer situations where one person was eased out of the marriage so that the other spouse would be able (they hoped) to marry someone they thought s/he would be better married to. You know, husband stands up to leadership (especially protecting wife), he gets eased / kicked out, they want to marry her to someone less protective so that she will be prey to those with less Godly intent. I don't know about the salt covenant being unbiblical; most weddings were and are celebrated with a feast (both families eating together) and the food would be salted. Would indicate peace between the families. I can see it would be a burden though in the TWI situation, where if you broke your salt covenant you were spitting in God's face. What a laugh, who caused most of the marriages to break down? I am going now before I get too worked up. Very interesting subject and it would be good to hear from spouses who stayed and (presumably) have since left. Spouseless.

Potatoes and tomatoes are much the same family and do suffer from similar diseases. Yes, what gets the 'maters will also get the spuds. I have an abundance of courgettes (zucchini), some of which are fast turning into marrows. I did try a sort of fried/sauteed mishmash last night (was it kimberly who recommended it, in In the Kitchen?), didn't look pretty but was tasty. My fridge-freezer is on overdrive and has frozen everything in the fridge, so I was using up some frozen capsicums, tomatoes (bought) and other stuff. The courgettes had also been in the fridge and were frozen solid. Something else to fix! No shortage of things to do when you have a few possessions! Travelling light somehow seems rather attractive at times. Did I tell you I have finally found a purpose in life for cabbage white butterflies? They are wonderful cat sport. My pair of scaredy-pants cats love chasing butterflies of all sorts (maybe I posted something on Cat Whispering??). They spend much time perfecting their hunting skills and leaping in the air and then rush in the house to play with and eat their prey. I have no objection at all to the Large Whites (cabbage whites), but prefer them not to nosh on the Peacocks or Tortoiseshells or the Green-Veined Whites (which are not cabbage whites). This year in fact I don't have much of a problem with the cabbage white butterflies. That's because the woodpigeons have got to the brassicas first, not-lol. Hey, my experimental sweetcorn is going really well, has flowers (flower like spikes, anyway) and there are lots of tiny stamen-like things hanging from them. They all look the same, so am assuming that's right. You experts out there, anything I need to do? They are all planted quite close together for cross-fertilisation purposes.

Too much like an admission of how bad the loss has been, JT. Anyway, it's not so much who's left - but who's still around. That probably shouldn't take too long to type up.

Actually I think I grew old out of The Way. After they'd M&A'd me and abandoned me. First they asked me to take a break for a few months. Nobody was allowed to talk to me. Then I was invited back to fellowship. There I was publicly humiliated and given such a load of abuse that I couldn't think straight for years. Then they all left the city where we'd been WoWs. Left me in this strange city, with a crushing load of guilt and condemnation. No-one to talk to, at all. I hardly remember any of that time. Many years later I discovered the Cafe. The guilt and self-condemnation fell like scales from my eyes. The weight on my shoulders evaporated. My sound mind began to return. I looked in the mirror and saw the lines and haggard look that I had acquired in the past decade. And as my sound mind returned, I saw some of those lines soften, and the haggard look disappear. Yes, people grow old in the Way. They grow older out of the Way. And they grow younger in the Cafe.

Unbelievable response, Oakspear...but actually all too believable. Glad you got out. Rejoice in your freedom. :) So sorry about your wife. Her choice, but they will have to answer for their part in the breakdown. But elsewhere you've said she's also out now, isn't she?

I have a Hotmail account, have done for years. Now "they" have added Messenger and a few of my contacts are in Messenger and most are not. I am not remotely interested in this facility and in fact am annoyed by the silly messages that some contact people post. The FAQ tell you all about how to ADD someone (an existing contact or otherwise) to Messenger, but not how to stop / delete them once added. I'd still like to retain these people as contacts. Any suggestions?

I think you mean "severe" side effects, but maybe it was a freudian slip. Anyway many of us here in fact suffered "sever side effects." Depending on how our severance from TWI was effected.

Tzaia, sounds like you are feeling the difference between Christianity the religion and Christianity the lifestyle. Your former friend's lifestyle and behavior both past and present doesn't match the book.

Geisha, I do love your funny cat stories!! ...So I am a den leader. They definitely do "respect" me as the boss. They come and miawl at me when they think it's feeding time, whenever they have a need - usually food or please clean the litter tray - Tuxy mews at me after she has used the litter tray (she never covers her leavings, ugh, very stinky). I do not yet have a cat door and don't fancy dealing with dead uninvited guests when the girlies get better at predation. When I was a teenager, one night about 11pm there was a noise in the bedroom window, the top light of which was just ajar. On investigation, Ginger our cat was found blinking at one side of the window sill, and one of next door's pigeons was the other side of the window sill. The cat had captured the pigeon, jumped several fences (or hedges), climbed onto a flat roof, jumped a gap of about 3 feet onto a narrow ledge, and then scrambled up about 3 feet of window to climb through the open light. Cat and pigeon both survived. Next door neighbor was in hot pursuit (knocking on the front door) and was seriously angry. Crypto (the little one) has made a few runs at woodpigeons, so far unsuccessfully. They fly off, laughing at her. Tuxy sees that they are quite large and wisely decides to lie in the sun instead.

PFAL is in mothballs because it is so holy. Ah, no - that would be "holey."

I don't know about holding someone against their will, but I do know that my Corps sis was not allowed to go to a family wedding (her sister, I think) because it would interfere with her Corps training. I think it was a few States away but the airfare was proferred so that she could attend. The person in rez was told that they could catch up with the bride and groom when they'd completed their in rez training. However, on another occasion, someone else in rez was allowed to attend the funeral of a family member (grandfather?). They were given maybe 3 days to get there and back. I don't know if they asked for time to visit prior to the deceased's death and to say last goodbyes. The family was dysfunctional and the deceased was unlikely to have been a believer of any stripe. WG, I can't believe that! :wacko: What happened to sharing of one's abundance? I guess your WoW coord forgot about how manna was shared out - a nice OT story "for our learning" - or not !!! Bleeargh...

Conflicting Poll title, and Poll question. Assuming George Aar and Way2much both answered this question: "Is TWI still worth talking about?"and said, "No" - why then are you both still here? (LOL, not that you should go away!) and that they didn't answer "Has TWI become old news?" which it probably has. The impression that I get now is that it booooorrrriiiiiing. Perhaps it's moved into "passive evil" and not "corrosive evil" or maybe they're not teaching even that stuff any more.

Well, at last I have found a use for cabbage while butterflies. They are an endless source of joy and delight to two black cats. Not just cabbage whites, either, but the pretty tortoiseshells and other butterflies. And flies. And wasps and bees. They are both avid hunters, but Crypto is terrifying. She just doesn't want to admit defeat and really goes for it. Tuxy enjoys but gets a bit bored and finds it not so exciting as lying around. Crypto grabs her prey and then rushes into the kitchen with wings sticking out of her mouth, to eat her critter or play with it on my kitchen runner (mat). It's good to see them enjoying life and "catty" pursuits but I don't fancy either of them bringing other prey (small rodents or birds) into the house. Like a small mouse that then escapes. Can I deter her from bringing home the bacon (as it were), do you think? How? If she can be deterred - should I deter her?

I found these recipes on the web: Cooking and eating Raw beetroot can be peeled and grated into salads to add a sweet flavour and great colour. You can also juice it with other vegetables such as carrots and celery. To cook beetroot from raw: Don't peel or cut it, or the colour (and nutrients) will leach out. Gently scrub the beets to clean thoroughly, and twist off the green tops. To roast: Small to medium beets can be roasted whole, or cut into quarters. Pre-boil for 15-20 minutes, drain and place in a roasting tin. Lightly coat with oil and seasoning and roast at 180C/360F/Gas 4 for 40-45 minutes (timing will vary depending on the size of the beets). To boil: put beetroot in a pan of water, bring to the boil and heat for 40 - 45 minutes. Beetroot is naturally quite high in sodium so you don?t need to add salt. To bake: preheat oven to 170C/325F/Gas 3. Put the whole beets into a baking dish, cover with foil and cook for 1-2 hours (depending on the size of the beets). Leave till cool enough to handle, and remove the skins - they should slip off easily. I have only ever tried boiling, never heard that you could do any other things. Boiling takes a surprisingly long time, given the small size of the beetroots. If you cut the globe, it will bleed, so just twist off the top (leaves). You can cut the root off later, when it's all cooked. They are best cooked when small - more tender - if left to get too big, they are quite woody, not so nice to eat, and take faaaar too long to cook. My great grandfather used to enjoy beetroot as a cooked vegetable and ate it regularly. However, it is not - at least nowadays - commonly served as a cooked (hot) vege, more as a salad item.