Twinky

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intersex Difficult for those suffering this condition. The way the athlete Caster Semenya has been treated is humiliating and if she didn't have difficulties before, she's likely to have them now. But what do you make of those who claim to be" trapped in the body of the 'opposite' sex"? (More usually men who prefer to live as women). If they do go through with "gender reassignment" surgery, do you think that they are then of the "new" sex? Is such a surgery-adapted [male] now really a [female]? If they don't have surgery but just dress up in the attire more usually adopted by the "other" sex and give themselves a new name (Jack now calls himself Jill), do you call them by their "new" gender identity (she) or their previous one (he)?

T&0...how come you have a current Way mag? You subscribe to it? Oops... just re-read your post ... your friend has a copy. Your friend subscribes?

Let's not overlook that small children were beaten with wooden spoons. There are enough threads here about the violence inflicted on little kids: beaten till badly bruised; beaten till spoons broke across their little bodies. After that came the systematic beating down of women, claiming that they must be subject to their husbands. This involved severe emotional violence, bullying and intimidation. Physical violence was also perpetrated against some women by their husbands. If women dared to complain to Branch or Limb Coords, who was supported? The men! Who was told to be more submissive and not provoke fights? The women! Therefore, it seems clear that TWI did promote violence. Nothing was done to rein in violent males; on the contrary, violent males were encouraged; were told to exercise authority within their own households. Two Way Corps women of my close acquaintance came home to find their husbands had guns ready which they threatened to use. Would those men have done that? Dunno, the women fled, not wishing to find out, but believing so because of the level of physical violence already shown to them and the lack of support from "higher" leadership. The incidents were years and hundreds of miles apart. It wasn't one cranky individual LC who was endorsing violent behavior.

Not to mention the ego of having their names put in some book according to the donations that people gave. The aud was built before I got heavily involved, but when I learned of the book, what sprang to mind was this: Matt 6:1 Take heed that ye do not your alms before men, to be seen of them: otherwise ye have no reward of your Father which is in heaven. 2 Therefore when thou doest thine alms, do not sound a trumpet before thee, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may have glory of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward. 3 But when thou doest alms, let not thy left hand know what thy right hand doeth: 4 That thine alms may be in secret: and thy Father which seeth in secret himself shall reward thee openly. I'm not knocking those who did give. It's probably because I heard about the book from cgeer, who during an SNS "let it slip" that he had been among the first to sign, because he had donated over $5,000. And at the time I was already appalled by the man's outrageous arrogance. I also wondered about the people who had contributed towards the tabernacle (Ex 35, 36 and thereabouts), only few of whom are named but the emphasis is on the willing donation; of the provision God himself had made beforehand, when the people fleeing Egypt had "borrowed" jewellery from their neighbors. ...some more of those red flags that got ignored Having said that, it was a beautiful auditorium / theatre / show place. And the seats were a jolly sight more comfortable than a hard church pew.

It would be interesting to consider what was “taught “ when and by whom. I’ve talked with WC who were there a decade or more before me and it seems they might have actually done something worthwhile. Certainly, they did a more academic sort of training than I did. But by my time, the fog years had been and gone, and so many, who may well have been scholars, left. My WC study day was like this: 8-12 work or private study 1-5 private study or work 7-10 class – note that this comes after a half-day’s work, and also after physical exercise first thing in the morning (running, starting at 5.50am) or some time during the private study time (wood chopping)) What did my Corps do, for its classes? As best I can remember, stuff like this. I don’t have my class notes or any other notes that I made except for a few of my journals, which I can hardly bear to look at.  First thing was to watch all the FNC, INT and ADV class videos. Later, we watched other videos of other TWI classes or from RoA.  Everyone gave a 5 minute talk about something that we were skilled in  Learned to make a succinct introduction/presentation about what God did for us (so that we were always ready to introduce God into any conversation)  Watched a series of videos about the Renaissance (so that we could talk as if we had some knowledge) – they might have been made by the BBC but were old and dated when they were shown to us  Watched a Martin Luther video  Watched VP & Me (LCM’s video)  Did some scraps of Greek (mostly about prepositions)  Did some scraps of English grammar (the sort of stuff I'd learned by about age 7)  Learned to floss our teeth and wipe our bottoms (yes, really)  Song leading, TWI style  How to introduce a PFAL FNC class  Lightbearers (two weeks)  Firearms safety  The Three Rs of raising children  Put on lots of events (when believers from the field would come in, for classes or events) We DID NOT do anything along the following lines (unless it was in private study) - never even touched on  OT history  How the Bible was put together  Early church history (eg, events from first Pentecost to say Council of Nicea)  Anything to do with the Dead Sea scrolls  Greek, Hebrew or any other language at any coherent level  Biblical archaeology, geography or other cultural influences  Orientalisms  Consider the lives of any renowned historical Christian leaders, saints, missionaries or other examples (except for Martin Luther and his stand against the religious hierarchy of the day)  Consider the movement, lives or actions of any other living Christians (eg, founders of hospitals, missions, teachers)  Listen to guest speakers or anyone not TWI-trained  Debate or consider any other points of view  Consider people-handling skills  Counseling people in difficulty (other than Give them the Word!) – eg, how to present what we had to say in the best way it could be received  How to conduct a marriage, funeral, or other notable event  Write considered essays on any topic  Have any work examined, marked, or otherwise scrutinized  Receive any training that might develop any skills that we might have (eg, in research, homiletics) We DID sometimes learn something that might become a trade (eg, gardening, forklift truck, painter, handyman, office administration) and we learned a lot about getting ready for events. Some of us had pretty good skills or professional training when we went in. We were rarely allowed to use those skills or training, as this was “sense knowledge.” Basically, we were kept so busy “serving” that the lack of substance in the “classes” barely registered. I would be really really interested to know what was studied and to what sort of level, in the earlier Corps. If you are able to post, can you also give an idea of when you were in? Did any of it really help you, for yourself or to help others? (Eg, a more rounded appreciation of the Bible because you did Biblical history).

It's a hydra. Cut off one head, others grow in its place. Doubtful that there could ever be a "definitive list". Just note the bigger ones like CFFM and STFI. Look on CFFM for believer links. Follow them around. Note that this is a worldwide problem. You'd have to define what exactly is a splinter. How much of TWI doctrine would they have to keep - or reject?

I found this in Wikipedia as "Ezekiel's Vision" which is his idea of God in glory. The reference in my post above should have shown this pic.

Here's what I got from Google: http://images.google.co.uk/images?q=ezekiel+vision&oe=utf-8&rls=org.mozilla:en-GB:official&client=firefox-a&um=1&ie=UTF-8&ei=QwK8SqSxIYOhjAetiezICw&sa=X&oi=image_result_group&ct=title&resnum=1 I'd like to hear what Spectrum has to say, too.

An angel is a messenger. Okay. It might be a physical person - a human being. Sometimes, might be a spiritual being that takes on physical appearance. (There was a thread on angels a while back, in Open). Angels are of greater strength than humans, who are only earthen vessels. How could a human wrestle some spirit being that could "dematerialize" at any time? In the incident you're discussing, Dot? I dunno, it always bothered me, too. I'd tend to go with it being a vision of some sort. But why the injury? Did Jacob fall out of bed, LOL? Jacob and his family and flocks had traveled far and reasonably fast to be able to get to their destination. Jacob sent on his wives and families and remained alone. Perhaps age (for he was not a young man any more), his hard life as a herdsman, the journey, the tension, stress and fear of meeting his brother again (not to mention years of sleeping on hard surfaces out in the fields/pastures), etc, played on a weaker hip joint as he tossed and turned in his dream/vision. I'd go for a vision or restless night where he was making up his mind to face up to his brother and "claim" the stolen blessing as really his own. He knew he'd defrauded (tricked) the blessing out of his father by disguising himself as his brother, of whom he was plainly still fearful many years later. The "blessing" from the "angel" was when he finally made up his mind to go do it. Finally fully persuaded, as it were. Being a tricky and deceptive fellow, however, he could also have been faking the limp to try and get his brother's sympathy. Bride, did you forget these verses? Joh 1:18 No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.You also don't seem to have taken this into account: Ge 33:10 And Jacob said, Nay, I pray thee, if now I have found grace in thy sight, then receive my present at my hand: for therefore I have seen thy face, as though [= therefore not actually] I had seen the face of God, and thou wast pleased with me.Consider also: Ge 19:15-17 And when the morning arose, then the angels hastened Lot, saying, Arise, take thy wife, and thy two daughters, which are here; lest thou be consumed in the iniquity of the city. And while he lingered, the men laid hold upon his hand, and upon the hand of his wife, and upon the hand of his two daughters; the LORD being merciful unto him: and they brought him forth, and set him without the city. And while he lingered, the men laid hold upon his hand, and upon the hand of his wife, and upon the hand of his two daughters; the LORD being merciful unto him: and they brought him forth, and set him without the city So clearly these angels were running around in broad daylight. The morning "arose" and it took time to get Lot and his family moving.

Well...no BBQ this year. Obviously. Maybe next year. gc, am still hoping to wangle a visit down your way sometime soon. I'll PM you if it seems viable.

No idea how I came to miss this thread when it started, but glad to see it got bumped up... ...if one can be glad at reading such a sickening account of systematic abuse... I feel sick at reading Krys's account. And her son and DIL were only two of ... how many? How many did this happen to, over the years? Krys, thank you for sharing. Best wishes to your son in his new life. Your DIL too. She had some very difficult things in her head to deal with. She probably still does have. Seriously, does anyone think they would actually have shot anyone? Or was it just a scare tactic? It would be sooooo difficult to explain that away. There would be police involvement. Careful interrogation and statements. That would really blow the lid off the abuse.

$80K???? That would be living on a need basis, of course....

No, Groucho, but you can take things the wrong way if you wish. It's your right (or wrong). I think we can be likeminded that whatever TWI is preaching about it...is probably wrong. And that we would both like to rescue anyone still "in." If you want to debate anything else raised in your post - see you in Doctrinal.

"Making God our Sufficiency" I'd like to see the trustees putting this into practice. Out together as a WoW family in some small Alaskan or West Virginia or Mississippi town (somewhere a little remote or Bible belt). Let out to play with $200 in their pocket, an elderly car, and a small suitcase of clothes. No recourse to other funds. Required to find a 4 or 5 hour/day job within a week and their own house to live in. Given a target of getting 3 classes together in 6 months, with no-one dropping out. At the end of the six months, THEN they might have something to share, genuinely, about making God their sufficiency - in the physical sense.

I am not sure if it will help you, or not, to know that IT WAS NOT YOUR FAULT but it was part of a pattern of behavior that was widely practiced in TWI. It was nothing that you did, or did not, do. Just that you are female. You have been a member for quite a while but have only recently posted, so no doubt you have read a lot of the miserable tales that have been posted here. Well done on finding the courage to start posting. It'll help you root out some of the damage that's been done in your head. Have a cup of coffee and something nice to eat.

As I am reading this, I note the following: 17 User(s) are reading this topic 1 members, 15 guests, 1 anonymous users The 1 member is me. Leaves me wondering if the 15 guests and the 1 anonymous member are covert Innies seeking a way out. Or maybe some of them are TWI "security". Hi, Mr Linder!

I would welcome suggestions on this problem: Tuxy seems to have a urinary problem. She has always been a cat that drinks a lot and wees a lot. Recently I got some supermarket generic cat biscuits which the cats ate for a few days but soon declined and refused to eat. However, since then, Tuxy seems to have a bit of a wee-ing problem. She goes to the litter box and sits on it, but seems to discharge very little. Most unusually, she will go to the box, often when I'm sitting on the loo myself (the cat box is in the bathroom) - not the sort of thing she likes to do. She visits the tray frequently but there is little to show for it. Some checks on the web have suggested that cheaper cat biscuits cause crystals to form in their bladders. I've tried offering wet food (tinned). Won't touch supermarket generic; won't touch tinned Felix though will nibble at sachet Felix. With wet food, actually she just licks up the gravy or jelly and leaves the chunks (daren't really call it "meat"). All she likes (will) eat is Go-Cat. She didn't have any problem when I had her eating just Go-Cat but after a week back on that she is still apparently having trouble. She is still a difficult cat to catch so regular dosing is likely to be difficult. I have never tried medicating either of them; except when I first had them I used some of the Bach remedies which were just drops in the drinking water. Crypto doesn't seem to have a problem though the diet is the same. She likes and seems to prefer wet food if a choice is offered. Suggestions as to what I can do to help Tuxy?

There isn't any excuse. A minister should be the husband of one wife...not one who keeps a harem on the side. The relationship of marriage is supposed to symbolise that of Jesus and the church. Well, just because in the OT the "church" then kept f***ing off with false gods doesn't mean that that is actually "the will of God" (for those still in Wayland). Is going off with other woman/founding some other church the example set by Jesus? I doubt these men start out as predators. But the easy intimacy and presumed trust between a minister and the congregation can present opportunities that wouldn't surface in another context. Any idea of the "celibate minister" is a hangover from Roman Catholic teaching that the priest should be celibate and wasn't allowed to marry. That has its roots way back in medieval power grabs and is nothing to do with what the Bible, either OT or NT, teaches.

So that's 269 clergy unaccounted for. Grease spots, no doubt.

At the time Emporia was being prepared for auction, the librarian (Gayle??) went from Ohio to view the library and to select any books that she wanted for the HQ library. These were crated up for transportation to Ohio. The remainder of the books were crated up for auction. She estimated the number of those she was taking, and the number of those to be disposed of. First time she had seen the library but she walked round and estimated the total number of books. She was pretty close, within about 100 books or so. Impressive. No idea where the books she wanted for HQ went, because the library there didn't occupy that much space. It was extended slightly, but nothing like enough for all the books. I used to use the library occasionally when I was doing my research project or whatever they called it. Don't know that I ever saw anyone else there.

Not seen Michael 0'Brien but if I run into him, shall I ask him for your plane fare so that you can visit this fair isle? If his scam was successful he may have change in his back pocket.

They write it all in a "Book of Life"? (Ancient computer, more like). Now how the heck can someone on "spiritual probation" (whatever the f*** that is) either learn to get better, or prove they are good enough to return, if they aren't allowed to "fellowship" and freely avail themselves of the wonderful teaching? Remind me, here, of how many people Jesus put on "spiritual probation". Or how many the apostles put on "spiritual probation" in the book of Acts? Something perhaps relevant in 2 Cor 2 - but in verse 7 it says: " So that contrariwise ye ought rather to forgive him, and comfort him, (-why? :) ) lest perhaps such a one should be swallowed up with overmuch sorrow. 8 Wherefore I beseech you that ye would confirm your love toward him." Huh? Forgive?? Comfort???? "Swallowed up with overmuch sorrow"? Does that find resonance in anyone here's life? (Completely completely completely spiritually angry with them!)

On the theme of the theme...TWI runs its themes in 10 year cycles. "Living the Word's Way" is a 10-year theme. "Making God our Sufficiency" is the 1-year theme. You know what really would be a new theme? "The excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus our Lord" (Phil 3:8) What if they really did start teaching something about who Christ Jesus our Lord actually is? About his lifestyle - which wasn't all confrontation, as LCM would have us think? About what he is doing today - in his church? About building a relationship with him - our big brother? Now that ... might be worth paying attention to. (Of course, believing what they said might be another matter, LOL.)

Yeah, Mark, I was thinking just a drive-by, too. Was going to give him/her another day or two ... perhaps it's an innie who has to find a suitable closet with internet, before posting.

What, Highway? You think it should be "Prevailing upon God's Sufficiency"? I don't see many folks from the Cafe volunteering to partake in this tremendous new year of outreach.