Twinky

An angel is a messenger. Okay. It might be a physical person - a human being. Sometimes, might be a spiritual being that takes on physical appearance. (There was a thread on angels a while back, in Open). Angels are of greater strength than humans, who are only earthen vessels. How could a human wrestle some spirit being that could "dematerialize" at any time? In the incident you're discussing, Dot? I dunno, it always bothered me, too. I'd tend to go with it being a vision of some sort. But why the injury? Did Jacob fall out of bed, LOL? Jacob and his family and flocks had traveled far and reasonably fast to be able to get to their destination. Jacob sent on his wives and families and remained alone. Perhaps age (for he was not a young man any more), his hard life as a herdsman, the journey, the tension, stress and fear of meeting his brother again (not to mention years of sleeping on hard surfaces out in the fields/pastures), etc, played on a weaker hip joint as he tossed and turned in his dream/vision. I'd go for a vision or restless night where he was making up his mind to face up to his brother and "claim" the stolen blessing as really his own. He knew he'd defrauded (tricked) the blessing out of his father by disguising himself as his brother, of whom he was plainly still fearful many years later. The "blessing" from the "angel" was when he finally made up his mind to go do it. Finally fully persuaded, as it were. Being a tricky and deceptive fellow, however, he could also have been faking the limp to try and get his brother's sympathy. Bride, did you forget these verses? Joh 1:18 No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.You also don't seem to have taken this into account: Ge 33:10 And Jacob said, Nay, I pray thee, if now I have found grace in thy sight, then receive my present at my hand: for therefore I have seen thy face, as though [= therefore not actually] I had seen the face of God, and thou wast pleased with me.Consider also: Ge 19:15-17 And when the morning arose, then the angels hastened Lot, saying, Arise, take thy wife, and thy two daughters, which are here; lest thou be consumed in the iniquity of the city. And while he lingered, the men laid hold upon his hand, and upon the hand of his wife, and upon the hand of his two daughters; the LORD being merciful unto him: and they brought him forth, and set him without the city. And while he lingered, the men laid hold upon his hand, and upon the hand of his wife, and upon the hand of his two daughters; the LORD being merciful unto him: and they brought him forth, and set him without the city So clearly these angels were running around in broad daylight. The morning "arose" and it took time to get Lot and his family moving.

Well...no BBQ this year. Obviously. Maybe next year. gc, am still hoping to wangle a visit down your way sometime soon. I'll PM you if it seems viable.

No idea how I came to miss this thread when it started, but glad to see it got bumped up... ...if one can be glad at reading such a sickening account of systematic abuse... I feel sick at reading Krys's account. And her son and DIL were only two of ... how many? How many did this happen to, over the years? Krys, thank you for sharing. Best wishes to your son in his new life. Your DIL too. She had some very difficult things in her head to deal with. She probably still does have. Seriously, does anyone think they would actually have shot anyone? Or was it just a scare tactic? It would be sooooo difficult to explain that away. There would be police involvement. Careful interrogation and statements. That would really blow the lid off the abuse.

$80K???? That would be living on a need basis, of course....

No, Groucho, but you can take things the wrong way if you wish. It's your right (or wrong). I think we can be likeminded that whatever TWI is preaching about it...is probably wrong. And that we would both like to rescue anyone still "in." If you want to debate anything else raised in your post - see you in Doctrinal.

"Making God our Sufficiency" I'd like to see the trustees putting this into practice. Out together as a WoW family in some small Alaskan or West Virginia or Mississippi town (somewhere a little remote or Bible belt). Let out to play with $200 in their pocket, an elderly car, and a small suitcase of clothes. No recourse to other funds. Required to find a 4 or 5 hour/day job within a week and their own house to live in. Given a target of getting 3 classes together in 6 months, with no-one dropping out. At the end of the six months, THEN they might have something to share, genuinely, about making God their sufficiency - in the physical sense.

I am not sure if it will help you, or not, to know that IT WAS NOT YOUR FAULT but it was part of a pattern of behavior that was widely practiced in TWI. It was nothing that you did, or did not, do. Just that you are female. You have been a member for quite a while but have only recently posted, so no doubt you have read a lot of the miserable tales that have been posted here. Well done on finding the courage to start posting. It'll help you root out some of the damage that's been done in your head. Have a cup of coffee and something nice to eat.

As I am reading this, I note the following: 17 User(s) are reading this topic 1 members, 15 guests, 1 anonymous users The 1 member is me. Leaves me wondering if the 15 guests and the 1 anonymous member are covert Innies seeking a way out. Or maybe some of them are TWI "security". Hi, Mr Linder!

I would welcome suggestions on this problem: Tuxy seems to have a urinary problem. She has always been a cat that drinks a lot and wees a lot. Recently I got some supermarket generic cat biscuits which the cats ate for a few days but soon declined and refused to eat. However, since then, Tuxy seems to have a bit of a wee-ing problem. She goes to the litter box and sits on it, but seems to discharge very little. Most unusually, she will go to the box, often when I'm sitting on the loo myself (the cat box is in the bathroom) - not the sort of thing she likes to do. She visits the tray frequently but there is little to show for it. Some checks on the web have suggested that cheaper cat biscuits cause crystals to form in their bladders. I've tried offering wet food (tinned). Won't touch supermarket generic; won't touch tinned Felix though will nibble at sachet Felix. With wet food, actually she just licks up the gravy or jelly and leaves the chunks (daren't really call it "meat"). All she likes (will) eat is Go-Cat. She didn't have any problem when I had her eating just Go-Cat but after a week back on that she is still apparently having trouble. She is still a difficult cat to catch so regular dosing is likely to be difficult. I have never tried medicating either of them; except when I first had them I used some of the Bach remedies which were just drops in the drinking water. Crypto doesn't seem to have a problem though the diet is the same. She likes and seems to prefer wet food if a choice is offered. Suggestions as to what I can do to help Tuxy?

There isn't any excuse. A minister should be the husband of one wife...not one who keeps a harem on the side. The relationship of marriage is supposed to symbolise that of Jesus and the church. Well, just because in the OT the "church" then kept f***ing off with false gods doesn't mean that that is actually "the will of God" (for those still in Wayland). Is going off with other woman/founding some other church the example set by Jesus? I doubt these men start out as predators. But the easy intimacy and presumed trust between a minister and the congregation can present opportunities that wouldn't surface in another context. Any idea of the "celibate minister" is a hangover from Roman Catholic teaching that the priest should be celibate and wasn't allowed to marry. That has its roots way back in medieval power grabs and is nothing to do with what the Bible, either OT or NT, teaches.

So that's 269 clergy unaccounted for. Grease spots, no doubt.

At the time Emporia was being prepared for auction, the librarian (Gayle??) went from Ohio to view the library and to select any books that she wanted for the HQ library. These were crated up for transportation to Ohio. The remainder of the books were crated up for auction. She estimated the number of those she was taking, and the number of those to be disposed of. First time she had seen the library but she walked round and estimated the total number of books. She was pretty close, within about 100 books or so. Impressive. No idea where the books she wanted for HQ went, because the library there didn't occupy that much space. It was extended slightly, but nothing like enough for all the books. I used to use the library occasionally when I was doing my research project or whatever they called it. Don't know that I ever saw anyone else there.

Not seen Michael 0'Brien but if I run into him, shall I ask him for your plane fare so that you can visit this fair isle? If his scam was successful he may have change in his back pocket.

They write it all in a "Book of Life"? (Ancient computer, more like). Now how the heck can someone on "spiritual probation" (whatever the f*** that is) either learn to get better, or prove they are good enough to return, if they aren't allowed to "fellowship" and freely avail themselves of the wonderful teaching? Remind me, here, of how many people Jesus put on "spiritual probation". Or how many the apostles put on "spiritual probation" in the book of Acts? Something perhaps relevant in 2 Cor 2 - but in verse 7 it says: " So that contrariwise ye ought rather to forgive him, and comfort him, (-why? :) ) lest perhaps such a one should be swallowed up with overmuch sorrow. 8 Wherefore I beseech you that ye would confirm your love toward him." Huh? Forgive?? Comfort???? "Swallowed up with overmuch sorrow"? Does that find resonance in anyone here's life? (Completely completely completely spiritually angry with them!)

On the theme of the theme...TWI runs its themes in 10 year cycles. "Living the Word's Way" is a 10-year theme. "Making God our Sufficiency" is the 1-year theme. You know what really would be a new theme? "The excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus our Lord" (Phil 3:8) What if they really did start teaching something about who Christ Jesus our Lord actually is? About his lifestyle - which wasn't all confrontation, as LCM would have us think? About what he is doing today - in his church? About building a relationship with him - our big brother? Now that ... might be worth paying attention to. (Of course, believing what they said might be another matter, LOL.)

Yeah, Mark, I was thinking just a drive-by, too. Was going to give him/her another day or two ... perhaps it's an innie who has to find a suitable closet with internet, before posting.

What, Highway? You think it should be "Prevailing upon God's Sufficiency"? I don't see many folks from the Cafe volunteering to partake in this tremendous new year of outreach.

...web-beacons??? :blink: (scratches head) Is there an interpretation with that?

What's this about Advanced Class 98 cover up?

Wow. Some things really go off track quickly. This is not a discussion about Rosie. It is a discussion about the ministry theme. Even if that theme is a new variation of "your ABS at work." Maybe if we address some issues about how God really is our sufficiency, it will help some innies who are still in, some who are still recovering from TWI-speak, and help them see that there is plenty of Godly sufficiency outside TWI. Or maybe it will give those perusing this site some ideas to pass on to Rosie so that it isn't just "how to get more money out of the punters."

Now now, Wordy, don't go jumping on newbies as soon as they get here, and scaring them off! Welcome, Billy G. Welcome to the Get Sorted Clinic aka Grease Spot Cafe. This is a diverse community and do feel free to express your own viewpoint. Being thankful is a great attitude but as you see, some are suspicious of it.

This is the new ministry theme for 2010. Fresh news, just released! You’ve all been waiting for this, haven’t you?! Living the Word's Way : Making God our Sufficiency I have little doubt that this ultimately come down to being all about the "here and now," the physical needs that we have being met. Even less doubt that it’ll be tied into some rich teachings (ahem) about God providing for our finances if only we will give more to the work of the ministry (read, TWI). And it will be very little about the love, joy, peace and comfort that there is in really knowing God as our strength and sufficiency and knowing His sustaining power in times of great anxiety or distress. …Your experience may vary…

Was at home. My brother had sent a video of his recent visit (he lives overseas). Had been watching that and the video tape was rewinding. Flipped it onto TV while it was rewinding. There was this bizarre movie, flames and smoke pouring out of a skyscraper... I thought it was some movie with a bizarre plot. Nobody would make a real movie like that! The sombre voices made me suspect that in fact it wasn't another movie at all. Then the second one hit. I watched in shock and horror. The entire family group sat in stunned silence watching in disbelief. It was unreal. But it was real. My condolences to anyone who lost loved ones in this dreadful attack. Am especially sorry for any small or (then) unborn children who lost a parent whom they never had the joy of knowing.

In a little neighborhood area near me there is a small collection of shops: a couple of food stores, a wine bar, a pub, a chemist, fruiterers, and quite a number of other shops. It's not a big area, but there are maybe two or three dozen shops. The area is full of very big houses, expensive to buy, but as they are so big, some have been turned into student lodgings and flatlets. An odd sort of mix, really. One of the shops, surprisingly, was a betting shop. It always seemed to me to be somewhat out of place, but it's not a business I know a lot about. As the shopfront had frosted windows and is not the sort of place I frequent, I had no idea how busy or otherwise it might be. A while ago I noticed in the betting shop window a sign - "Charity shop opening here soon." And today when I drove past there are rails of clothing, stepladders, storage boxes, etc, all strewn around in the former betting shop. It seemed so ironic that the get-rich-quick betting shop, that may have taken money from households that could ill afford it, now has its place taken by a charity shop selling clothing and other cheap stuff to perhaps keep those very households going.

Not their minds, Ron - just their knives. http://www.goxplore.net/guides/Knife_law_(UK)