Twinky

Actually, George, if you're being really pedantic, "Whence come you?" since "whence" also incorporates the "from part. But don't let everyone whence (wince) by getting too fancy about stuff. Whence (Once) upon a time I lived in various other countries. Maybe I should tick them, since I'm not actually coming from anywhere at the moment, I'm here and nearly always have been. (LOL) P-Mosh, I was thinking of USA as "America" which is why I also put Canada and South America, rather than "North America" but agreed it's ambiguous/misleading. Do you identify as being an "Other" rather than white/caucasian? Pleased that you give credit to native American ancestry. Antipodean poster, where do you hail from?

For other ignoramuses: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/N._T._Wright. Geisha - shoulda known, or at least checked Wiki before asking the obvious! I'll check out some of his work...sometime. Shows how much notice I take of other religious groups. Still trying to think through and read what seems appropriate. Reading all of the Bible without PFAL-colored glasses is a decent start.

I dunno, Rummie, never heard of it before reading in these forums. Yet funnily enough I came across some book in the library about pre-Christian events alleged to have taken place before the time of Christ. Like lots of the gospel miracles, etc, that allegedly occured before. Or in other religions, traditions or mythologies. Unfortunately as my library ticket was maxed out, I couldn't borrow the book.

How strange. I was at a class where new Christians or those simply investigating Christianity can discuss whatever questions they wish. And someone asked, what is the unforgivable sin? Zzzippp...my mind went straight back to the teaching that T-Bone so carefully describes. But the group facilitator (herself a longstanding Christian) simply said that she wasn't sure. So I'll be watching this discussion with interest. Hope it continues.

Two planes crash into iconic buildings... Three skyscrapers fall down... People falling out of buildings, paper everywhere, ash everywhere... About 3000 people killed... Immensely brave rescue efforts from fire services, some of whose officers were also killed... And VB in his Mog-paranoia says, "Look at me! Look at me!!! Gimmee all your money!!!! I'm the only one who can protect you!!!!" ??? It's a bit of a de-rail but this thread seems to have stagnated ... anybody recently out (or even still in) remember the TWI response?

Hey Psalmie, nice to see you back! How's things?

I've always been interested to know who comes to the Cafe. And I wonder where people come from. These days, everyone seems to be into politically correct questionnaires about one's background, whether you're black, white, striped or checkered. So here's a go at a poll, if you want to humor me. Of course, there will be the usual complaints that I forgot your country or racial group. If you live in one country but have roots from another (eg, "Irish American") it would probably be more realistic checking "America" as your country, unless you were born in Ireland. Neither the countries nor the racial groups are in any kind of order. I don't know if we'll end up as a spread of nationalities and racial groups. It always seemed to me that TWI was mostly white, with darker skinned peoples in their countries (eg, Zaire) but not an overwhelming number of black Americans. But post-PoP, that might just be the people I happened to meet while I was in, or the countries I lived in at the time.

Perennial sort of topic, this one. Have a look at these:

I posted something ages ago, and this quote (posted by another Cafe denizen) made it into Grease Spot Gems in September 2006: No doubt if you search the threads, you'll find the original... LOL.

Like, "The Art of Followship," about the joys and pleasures and godly satisfaction of obedience to your husband?

Tonight, I went to my city's public firework display. Pretty good one, too, lasted 20 mins with a wide range of different types of fireworks. All the roads near the central area of the city were blocked by people standing around, and later, by the pedestrians walking away. Great crowd atmosphere. On the way home, saw a few private fireworks being let off in people's gardens. And that was that. 'S all that ever happens. Country areas might have a huge bonfire (and no doubt there will be some of those + fireworks over this coming weekend). Just a bit of fun on a dark evening prior to the Christmas run-up getting under way.

Jeepers, I thought I was the only one with no real friends. Sorry to see that I am wrong. When I first got M&A'd, when I could pick up a Bible again I did some reading in the gospels about what a friend is. It was so miserable and depressing that my efforts didn't last long. Might get different results if I tried the same thing now. There are so many levels of friendship. But the number of folks in one's innermost circle is very small. Actually I have a pretty good support group/ network of friends, who do care and share. And who would help in any way they could. But real intimates? Very few.

Bonfire Night is not a holiday, never has been. Just bonfires and lots of fireworks. These days the fireworks tend to be more in public displays, not privately in people's back gardens. It is not known as Guy Fawkes Day or any such thing. A rocket to the person who mentioned it was LCM's birthday. :-( Burning LCM's effigy might not be a bad thing but wouldn't want his memory perpetuated over the centuries.

Yeah, but don't I remember: "God said it, that settles it, I believe it!"? Did he just twist the little phrase around, or do I remember it wrongly?

Waysider, here's another perspective on Mithraism: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mithras and you will see that the first para, which is expanded upon in the body, states: "The Mithraic Mysteries or Mysteries of Mithras (also Mithraism) was a mystery religion, which became popular among the military in the Roman Empire, from the 1st to 4th centuries AD. Information on the cult is based mainly on interpretations of monuments. These depict Mithras as born from a rock and sacrificing a bull. His worshippers had a complex system of 7 grades of initiation, with ritual meals. They met in underground temples. Little else is known for certain." In other words, Mithraism is the counterfeit - not Christianity. But we're agreed on your statement: "Looking back, it's obvious Wierwille had discovered that, if there were questions he really didn't know the answer to, he could simply play the "devil's trickery" card."

What holiday?

Man, there was a time I thought they would take me onto staff. The prospect was dismal. I had to go lots of long walks in the hills to wrestle my mind round the thought of it. Anyway, they dropped me instead. That was dire. Very dire. Mildly interesting to ponder which would have been worse. Glad I'm out.

These interviews... Who were they with? Who selected the interviewees? Were they selected at random, and by the interviewers, or were they selected by TWI? What "priming" went on before the visit of the interviewers? Wonder how free the interviewees felt at saying what they themselves wanted to say? How expert were the interviewers at sussing out egregious behavior (that which is actually "normal" at HQ)? (Wonder what background information they had been given!) Was it only at HQ or did staff elsewhere (Gunnison? Indiana campus?) get to play, too? What about believers (esp Corps) on the field; were they interviewed too? Because they also came under severe restrictions. Bearing in mind that we all got to accept "normal" as the way things were done at HQ concurrently with thinking outsiders just wouldn't understand, it wouldn't be surprising if there were a degree of cover-up, not fully disclosing, or fudged answers. Especially if there were some paranoia about the results getting back to RFR. Is this set of interviews the precursor to the "softer, kinder" TWI? Not merely the appointment of a new leader (RFR)? It's good that there was some relaxation of the stranglehold, but from what OldSkool and YourMum say, sounds like it might be a temporary release in order to get a tighter grip later. Cult experts ... (snort!!!) :wacko::excl:

Sunesis ... now how could anyone be offended by so helpful and detailed a response? Thank you! I'm reading through the OT (well, so far, Pentateuch) in two different versions (neither KJV), with my Lion Handbook and other study aids (so slow going), and just thinking about all the things that tend to be forgotten. Or where there was never any explanation from TWI. So there may well be more "can you help?" cries!

Variation on a theme: VP had just recently discovered that God's Word is God's will. He believed The Word about salvation, With greediness he was filled. His life was full of lust, gybes, p1ss, Yes, he'd been saved by grace. But he had an opportunity, A malignant growth, a sore upon his face. VP had been reading in The Word How in old, elders anointing with oil And he knew some of that oil Would heal his cancerous boil. He went down to the drugstore And he said to the clerk, "I want to buy some oil to get a job done. I know it'll work." "What kind of oil do you require? 3-in-1, olive, camphor, flax or is it castor you desire?" VP replied, " I don't guess it matters what brand or kind." "Just give me some of that castor oil kind." VP went straight home, The bottle of castor oil he uncapped, Stood before the mirror, Rubbed the castor oil on his face with a gentle pat. "Lord", he said, "I'm doing the best I can." "If you'll do your best, I know that I'll be healed." I 'spose you're wondering what happened to VP And that cancer sore. VP's eye did badly And he doesn't have his eye anymore. VP learned something A lot of us seem to forget. Believe God, do the best you can And SEE YOUR DOC AS WELL! (edited cos I obviously used a rude word, lol)

Eye don't quite see this. Eye don't think VPW did either. Or maybe he didn't try putting castor oil in his cancerous eye.

Interesting! Can't get into the forums, though. Like the "Love Letters" section. Would be interesting if anyone here was the beneficiary of such a letter, and it helped them make the decision to leave.

T-Bone, I am DEFINITELY coming to spend some time with you and Tonto!! Your wooden ear and my - interesting - singing voice could be jolly good fun. (I jest, I sing quite well) Next Texas BBQ at your place!

Thank you very much for responses on this thread. Especially that very lengthy description/explanation, Sunesis. Now to engage the gray matter...

You'll find most are here for much the same reasons. Plus, it helps to be able to "talk things over" with others who understand because they've been subjected to more or less the same junk, even if at different times of TWI history. Strangers who have never had affiliation with TWI just wonder why you put up with it so long. Enjoy getting your mind straight!