Twinky

Very funny, T-Bone. Grandiose ideas, though, hasn't it? Comparing themselves to being persecuted as if under the Inquisition. "We must have the truth...everyone is ganging up on us to keep it quiet!" Heard that before, somewhere not too far away.

This may not have made the news in the USA: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/8327569.stm http://www.afriquejet.com/news/international-news/france:-court-in-france-convicts-scientology-of-organized-fraud-2009102837168.html http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20091027/ap_on_re_eu/eu_france_scientology (emphasis mine) Looks like the "church" is still very much in denial. But the whole thing still has that very familiar ring about it, just a different name... It would be nice to think that the "young woman" who took out E21,000 loans and who later complained was awarded some of the money that the organization was fined. Whether she ever sees any of it will be quite another matter.

Of course, you cannot see some constellations - like the Ursa ones - in the southern hemisphere; and as you say, you cannot see the Southern Cross in the northern hemisphere. The "Word in the Stars" is based on the constellations that are also known as the signs of the zodiac. These encircle the equator and are visible in the southern hemisphere. (Well, I don't claim to be an expert on astronomy; I don't know exactly every star of the zodiac constellations). When I've lived in or visited southern hemisphere countries, I'm always bemused at seeing Orion upside down.

Leafy, I'm sorry you got treated so badly as spouse Corps. Graduated Corps weren't considered spiritually smart enough to be able to choose a spouse who would be "a helper appropriate for them" (Gen 2:18) - a helper who had a great heart to serve. The choice should have been respected, not denigrated. You obviously took some time before it became such a burden that you mentioned it to your husband. And his ready response as indicated by you showed that it had become a burden for him. That "lockbox" thing again - where spouses dare not speak openly in case the other ratted them out to TWI. How can a marraige survive and grow, where the partners are afraid of each other? Rejoice in your freedom. Every day.

You know, when you look at something, you also look at what it is NOT. Look at VPW (or Barnard) - and you will see what being a real man IS NOT. Hmm...have you read about this guy Jesus? He sorta liked women and stood up for them and protected them. He had these close friends Mary and Martha. Women liked him. In fact, women (or at least one woman) threw themselves at his feet. He treated them with respect. He broke with tradition to treat them with respect (Samaritan woman). No suggestion he was trying to get into their knickers. No suggestion he had physical needs that needed "servicing." Oh, and by the way, he refused to allow people to "worship" (hero worship) him, idolize him, and he didn't threaten others with violence, knives, or other weapons. He didn't carry a gun for "protection." He might be a better role model for you, Jeff.

Must be something new. Same old teachings, just now done (silently) in sign language (LOL). Well, we all heard it all so many times that we could lip-read it anyway.

Ecclesiastes 12:12 And further, by these, my son, be admonished: of making many books there is no end; and much study is a weariness of the flesh. Is there no end to the mudslinging essays from these people? 13 Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man. 14 For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil. I "fear God" has got bored with these people and is just letting them get on with it. Maybe when they've stopped squabbling, there might be some scope for Him to say a quiet word or two? Meanwhile, this row doesn't seem to involve anything to do with HIm.

Good grief, that email is longer than most of the Pauline epistles - and that's without taking JL's attachments into account (total length then, how long? as long as a gospel?) The difference in the Pauline epistles is that they are concerned for the wellbeing of the readers, the believers, young churches, home fellowships. Not "I, me, mine." Where is the "edification and comfort" in anything that JL says? Who is preached, who is his letter about, who is glorified? And who isn't preached, who isn't the context of the letter, who isn't glorified? Philippians 1: 12 But I would ye should understand, brethren, that the things which happened unto me have fallen out rather unto the furtherance of the gospel; 13 So that my bonds in Christ are manifest in all the palace, and in all other places; 14 And many of the brethren in the Lord, waxing confident by my bonds, are much more bold to speak the word without fear. 15 Some indeed preach Christ even of envy and strife; and some also of good will: 16 The one preach Christ of contention, not sincerely, supposing to add affliction to my bonds: 17 But the other of love, knowing that I am set for the defence of the gospel. 18 What then? notwithstanding, every way, whether in pretence, or in truth, Christ is preached; and I therein do rejoice, yea, and will rejoice. 19 For I know that this shall turn to my salvation through your prayer, and the supply of the Spirit of Jesus Christ, 20 According to my earnest expectation and my hope, that in nothing I shall be ashamed, but that with all boldness, as always, so now also Christ shall be magnified in my body, whether it be by life, or by death. Paul wrote this in rather more trying circumstances than JL has faced. Paul sets out his own credentials in Phil 3, taking just three short verses to summarise his "career". Then concludes with this: 8 I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ, 9 And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness... Take a lesson, John, and all the rest at CES.

A very brave woman. And a very sad young man. Foolish, but brave in his way. Knew he was doing wrong, and turned himself in. He doesn't need a prison sentence, he needs a job and helping to live a normal life in society. Enabled to go his way and sin no more.

Only thing that surprises me about the snippet Shellon posted is that it didn't get plagiarized and incorporated into TWI dogma... ...at least so far as is currently known. :o (We really need a barf icon in the emoticons)

When we all get to use metric measurements, will we have to call him Sir Isaac New-tonne?

Nice to see this is still getting some votes. It's good to see that less than 10% were actually thrown out. The other 90% have left voluntarily, even if that was accompanying someone who had been thrown out. I wonder if this group has had fewer problems with adjusting to the world outside: but I think we've nearly all had adjustment issues and not being thrown out is perhaps only one less thing to deal with. For some it was a close-run thing, whether they left or were ejected. From the more recent poll ("Who's here now?") it appears at present that we all got hooked in in the 70s or 80s, none earlier or later. Have the 90's and 00s not found the Cafe yet, or just not answered the poll?

Good for them. Excellent idea. There's a like organisation in the city where I live. Just a small fellowship. They have decided not to use a dedicated building. Apparently they meet as small groups in people's houses and then fairly often all the housegroups meet up in a pub or some such place. Or maybe in the park, in good weather. Are people still allowed to smoke in public places in Wisconsin, then? Banned in pubs and clubs in the UK, Ireland, and several other countries. Makes going out a much nicer experience.

Bliss - you know what they say - "absence makes the heart grow fonder." But don't forget "out of sight, out of mind."

Geisha, you include a lot of works by NT Wright. Who's he, and what are his creds? How about a quick bio? T-Bone - not too bright? Huh? Pass me the sunglasses next time we meet. Just cos you dropped college doesn't mean you aren't bright.

Newlife, you might find this thread of interest:

Well, I was later in than TheHighWay, and I don't recall any required reading. There was some required reading for the Adv Class, which I took immediately before coming in rez (only to be presented again with it almost as soon as I arrived in rez). Basically Adv Class stuff was the collaterals and some other Way stuff, JCOP, JCPS. We had a list of books that we must bring with us when we came in rez, which included PFAL, RHST, collaterals, JCOP, JCPS, a Bible Atlas, a Concordance, an English dictionary and probably several other books.

Waysider ... don't tell me you did that from memory ... (or is it ) Didn't know he'd pinched that too...but then again, maybe it was a bit too slick even for Slick Vic. Why am I not surprised?

Well, what has always worked for me is a product called "No More Jet Lag" - may be marketed in the US as "Jet Ease". Used to be in a slim white box with a blue plan on the front, very simple. It is a bunch of herbal extracts in a white tablet that you munch every two hours. Quite pleasant tasting. Buy in pharmacy or at airport. I have made many very lengthy plane journeys, literally from one side of the world to the other, the furthest points you can get apart. It's very tiring, as you might imagine. (There's a good reason why people do not commute between the uK and New Zealand...and it's not just cost!) When I have taken these tablets, I have arrived tired but fresh the other end. I have adjusted quickly with a longer night's sleep when I arrive, but no adjustment deficit that makes me feel hung over for the next three days. They work equally well no matter which way round you travel. As these have been so successful, I thought maybe I was imagining their effect...till I forgot or ran out or something, part way through a journey. The next few days in NZ were appallingly jetlagged. But when I have taken the tabs, I've lived a completely normal life and been fit enough to take off on some demanding physical exploits. Have a great trip, sounds wonderful!

Roll up, roll up! Get your brand here! Can't you just see it? Nice big bonfire, get the branding iron hot, stamp "CULT" across their hands or foreheads. Love their use of the abbreviation "ect." Don't you just love these highly literate characters ... that hide behind difficult KJV language when they don't even understand common English.

TWI wanted this two ways: (1) Jesus studied the scriptures very well and was well-taught by his parents. That's how he knew this stuff. (2) God was teaching him directly, by revelation (although they emphasized this more in his adult life). Gosh, can you imagine some precocious 12 year old TWI-raised kid...asking questions whilst seated at the feet of the leaders, teachers, call 'em what you will. One learns by asking questions. But the start of "no questions" was in PFAL where it was actively discouraged - write your questions down, we'll answer them at the end of the class - but never did. It amazes me there were Q&A sessions at WIB (not when I attended, early 90s) or Corps Week. When were the Q&A sessions closed down, pre- or post- VPW's death? Pre- or post-fog years? Another opportunity missed...word in culture.

Ain't that the truth. Nor did they have a clue as to the real value of all the skills brought in by other people, in performing arts, in tenderness for people, in anything. Were they ever a real "research" ministry? Or did they just grab bits of interesting slightly controversial material from other sources (Lamsa, etc) and pass it off as new light? I don't see why the team's individual abilities to research can't have been God-given - especially since there seems to be lasting benefit. In fact, I'd go so far as to say that perhaps some members of the team had the gift ministry (should you believe in such things) of Teachers. But of course to acknowledge that others had this gift ministry would detract from the glory of the self-appointed teacher.

Taxi... you never believed it but you stuck around anyway????? Do you mean you didn't believe any of it; or just that you didn't swallow the lot - but still managed to maintain some cynicism about some of the dogma?

Brave of you, Jeff,but what were you trying to do? Reduce some of the interest so that the the price would be driven down and there wouldn't be so much to purchase another property? The locals already knew it was a bad place to be. Sounds like the culties that you spoke to know in their hearts that what's going on is wrong but they don't know how to get out of it. Maybe you should have made up some "business cards" with the GSC website address on. Given them to the folks you spoke to. As a splinter group, it's the other side of their story, too.

How come I didn't get that piccy? Oh, I know, I was "serving" (on Beverage Crew again) not actually "attending" the class, probably. I think whilst in rez we suffered a "trial run" though. In the middle of the night? Well doncha know, all those DSs are much more active after midnight! That's why all WoWs had to be in bed by that time. Yeah, like DSs wear wrist watches... So he got you up at that time...so that, what, you could discern them better?