Twinky

Your reply: "Gosh, that's wonderful of you. I will be blessed when I can sit down, kick my shoes off, and drink a fresh cup of coffee. And you got my favorite blend of coffee! And you put my favorite cushion on the couch!! And, aw, that's so good of you - you cleaned the house all through!!!"

OldSkool, did you see this thread, started somewhat earlier than this current thread?

Gimme a nice glass of (alcoholic) cider any day!

I'm sure they do, Waysider. TWI probably has more "fame" through the cafe than of its own account, nowadays. But let's face it - TWI doesn't listen, does it?

Burford, welcome. You've been a lurker for some time (judging by when you signed up), so welcome to the hurly-burly of joining in the conversations here. Let me welcome you in good old GSC style: (edited to overcome my temporary dyslexia)

Chockfull, you did read the whole of the para where I first mentioned "libellous," didn't you? At first sight, what I read did seem libellous. I accepted that the comments weren't libellous when I understood better. I've been on the receiving end of some of the ill-treatment - made it easier to understand the truth of it. And, Chockfull... I know what libel is. I am a lawyer!

Has anything ever been the fault of TWI and its teachings? If you're a low-ranker, it's your fault if something bad happens. If you're higher ranking, bad stuff happens because you are "standing in the gap." As far as I know, standing in gaps causes drafts round the neck, which may make the neck stiff. And you don't get much stiffer-necked than TWI. Guess they do a lot of standing in gaps.

'Twas the same with the old PFAL class. At every fellowship, the question was (asked enthusiastically), "Have you taken the class yet?" and if you asked a question, "Oh, you'll understand that, once you've taken the class." This was from a bunch of WoWs and I believe they were genuinely committed to God and loved Him. They'd learned what they'd learned from TWI and it was the only place they knew to get "fed." So of course it was the only place they could refer others to "get fed." In setting the hook, however, you overlook another significant aspect. That is the dearth of proper teaching in mainstream churches. Teaching, not rhetoric, not emotion, and not wishy-washy sermons where if a Bible is opened it's a rarity. PFAL (and presumably WAP) got people opening their Bibles and reading, and gave "explanations" of passages that churches didn't. Was Jesus a lure? Maybe. If your prey is hungry enough, you don't need much of a lure.

It takes time to change a mindset. TWI was all for aggressively pushing "the truth" on people. Not only that, it pushed a lot of other doctrines. All of which became deeply ingrained. Many here can attest to how long it has taken them to overcome specific problems, doctrines, habits, not to mention mental aberations acquired along the way. We were rude and pushed away friends, family, anyone who wasn't "in the Word". We thought we were right. For some of us, it has taken a long time to lose that mindset. For others of us, it's been quicker. Might depend on why someone is no longer with TWI. Seeing what people say at this website may, probably does, trigger that mindset of wanting to "bring people here back to the Word/PFAL." It may take some time for those people to realize that's not going to happen, and to understand why. The discourse at GSC has helped people lose that mindset and start to listen to "the other side of the story." It may be tremendously shocking to them. It may take a lot of listening to really hear. But they will never hear, unless they are given time, and not "run off" by people with the same mindset in reverse - the mindset that makes some want to do anything they can to tear down TWI instead of promoting it. Be kind. Be patient. You once thought as some newbies did. But you changed. In time.

Oh yeah, it was, wasn't it. Never even thought of it. No doubt if you were still a Way-head, you'd be concerned about "Wednesday the 13th" not "Friday the 13th." If you were (allowed to be) superstitious.

Is this some of those coincidences that just happen? You know, like when you first learned to pray, and then when what you prayed for happened, you attributed it to God. And if it didn't happen you either attributed it to your own "lack of believing" or to "the adversary." Now it's happening the other way round, are you attributing things that just happen randomly to pulling out your Bible again? You've certainly had some unpleasant things happen to you, though. If reading your Bible is not bringing peace to you - don't read it. God looks on the heart - not on the "works" of spending time reading just because you feel you ought to. Get out there and live what you know, give what you can, and speak when spoken to...if asked. And enjoy the time you have with your mum. It's good, what you're doing with her. And maybe it's God's way of helping you, too.

Grand-daughter, this makes for painful reading and I know there is worse to come. But also there is so much better to come! :)

The HighWay: I googled "The Way International" - first thing up is this website. And I'd been searching for The Way International because I needed the zip code for any letter I might steel myself to writing. ...no such letter was ever written. :P Had been living down the bottom of a deep dark well since being M&A'd mid-90s so no knowledge of lawsuits or anything going on. Was totally shocked. At the time, there were big debates going on within other denominations about how to handle matters like whether homosexuals could be ordained; whether civil partnerships/same sex relationships should be blessed in churches; second marriages where there has been adultery in the first marriage; and paedophilia by RC ministers. I knew TWI would have very strong views and certainly would not condone any such wrongdoing. They stood on what the Bible said and just simply would not allow such conduct. My view of this pristine organization (LOL) was (hmm) somewhat disturbed (!) when I read the documents on the front page at the Cafe.

I know people who refuse to come here because it's too aggressive. When I first came here I was appalled at the libellous comments about some of the leadership of TWI. But I read in a sort of fascinated horror and eventually it began to connect with what I had seen but couldn't comprehend or acknowledge. Eventually I realized that the comments weren't libellous but actually spoke out of a long pattern of evildoing. But my first thought was that these people are so unthankful, so ungrateful, so.... (head in hands). Easy to see why people are put off. Now I'm appalled by how rude some people are to newbies who still hold "TWI truth" in their hearts. It's a sort of "love bombing" in reverse. Give newbies a chance to get through the door, folks! Don't rise to the challenge to "speak the {GSC} truth" quite so aggressively.

Waysider, because I'd wondered if there might be more darker-skinned people, African Americans.

More like VPW and the no-stick gospels. Since by the time he'd finished, there wasn't much of the gospel sticking around.

Hmm... So far, 80% American [uSA] which I'd expected. And 70% identify as white/caucasian, which I'd sort of expected but had hoped might be a lower percentage.

FWIW, I never heard of Waydale. I'm glad this place is called "Grease Spot Cafe". Had it been called Waydale, I probably wouldn't have paid any attention. As it was, I found Grease Spot Cafe as I was looking for the zip code, preparing to crawl back to TWI over broken glass because my life was so miserable on the outside. The intriguing diversion to the Cafe...has distracted me ever since. Never made it back to TWI. Phew!!!

The Anglican church I currently go along to has, after five long years, finally received planning permission to build a new church on the same plot as one that was arsoned. The planning authority threw up all sorts of hurdles, from design, to noise, to access... and this church will be in a deprived area where there are few local facililties, so it will also function as a community centre - something the planners never provided. How many mentions of the adversary? None. How many prayers that, if it be God's will that this church be built, then the planning problems will be sorted out? Many. I've been sitting through an Alpha course with a friend who is just beginning to explore Christianity. He finds the discussions after the talks interesting (unlike the non-discussions after a PFAL session) and finds he learns more from those than from the given "lecture." People seem to drift in and out on these sessions - one week there, the next, absent. For what Alpha sees as the highlight of their course (the "holy spirit" day), my friend was the only non-believer there. Dunno where everyone else was, they all made excuses beforehand. How many times did I hear: "The Adversary has tricked them out of the greatness of God's Word"? None. Just a genuine welcome next time the absentees came to a session. If you don't focus on God or on Jesus, what do you focus on? "The Adversary." And, as we were taught, you become what you look at, focus on. No wonder it was so hard to love God when we were fighting off fear of the adversary all the time.

Gut feeling on this is... I don't want to be "like minded" with anyone any more. Not if it means anyone is forcing it, suspending questions, being afraid to explore ideas...being afraid to explore God. Nonetheless I'm delighted if there are others who agree somewhat or completely with what I understand/believe. I am delighted to find "likemindedness" as in unity of heart and purpose, in fellow Christians who are Trinitarians, who attend a range of churches from mainstream/established to small housegroups. We're likeminded even if we differ on "surface" aspects. I'm interested in where and why they differ. At the end of the day, it's our personal relationship with God that matters. That relationship is not found in reading books (not even the Bible) (and certainly not PFAL). It's found in using our God-given brains to contemplate who God is and meditating in the scriptures to understand Him (and our own lifestyle) better.

News made it to Europe, too. Only thing to be said is: Gooooood!!!!!!! One wonders how he might fare in prison with several hundred "spiritual wives" to choose from...or be chosen by... :wacko:

Rummie, did I hit a sore point? Okay, I was poking fun just a little at USA imperialism - but also at Brit imperialism before that, too!!! Look at the whole post...! I like Americans (inhabitants of the USA) as individuals. I have met some pretty nice people, open and generous in a way not found in a lot of places or some other countries. I have visited the USA on a number of occasions over many years, before, during and after my involvement with TWI. I have a problem with USA imperialism and wanting to run other countries. Your immediate past president did no favors in this regard. Ah well, that's for another forum. If you wanna carry on, start something in Politics and Tacks. If you say, Rummie, it was me who lumped the Americas together as one (and I would change the entry on the poll if it were possible, but it doesn't seem to be possible to change the poll) ...what nationality do you call yourself, Rummie? An American? Or a "USA-an?" If someone from Quebec called himself an American, would you object and say, no, you're a Canadian? What about someone from Mexico, Buenos Aires, Columbia, Tiera del Fuego?

WW - yes, what a good idea. In fact, if the USA realized there were actually other countries and civilizations outside the USA it would be a brilliant thing. Summa those places have cultural backgrounds going back millennia. Before, in fact, the American continents were discovered and claimed (as if they were so much abandoned property) by Europeans. (Don't be too harsh, Twinky; which countries did they learn Imperialism from???)

Hap, would love to hear more about your recollections of that very significant time.

9 November 1989 - the 20th anniversary of the fall of the wall...