Twinky

It takes time to change a mindset. TWI was all for aggressively pushing "the truth" on people. Not only that, it pushed a lot of other doctrines. All of which became deeply ingrained. Many here can attest to how long it has taken them to overcome specific problems, doctrines, habits, not to mention mental aberations acquired along the way. We were rude and pushed away friends, family, anyone who wasn't "in the Word". We thought we were right. For some of us, it has taken a long time to lose that mindset. For others of us, it's been quicker. Might depend on why someone is no longer with TWI. Seeing what people say at this website may, probably does, trigger that mindset of wanting to "bring people here back to the Word/PFAL." It may take some time for those people to realize that's not going to happen, and to understand why. The discourse at GSC has helped people lose that mindset and start to listen to "the other side of the story." It may be tremendously shocking to them. It may take a lot of listening to really hear. But they will never hear, unless they are given time, and not "run off" by people with the same mindset in reverse - the mindset that makes some want to do anything they can to tear down TWI instead of promoting it. Be kind. Be patient. You once thought as some newbies did. But you changed. In time.

Oh yeah, it was, wasn't it. Never even thought of it. No doubt if you were still a Way-head, you'd be concerned about "Wednesday the 13th" not "Friday the 13th." If you were (allowed to be) superstitious.

Is this some of those coincidences that just happen? You know, like when you first learned to pray, and then when what you prayed for happened, you attributed it to God. And if it didn't happen you either attributed it to your own "lack of believing" or to "the adversary." Now it's happening the other way round, are you attributing things that just happen randomly to pulling out your Bible again? You've certainly had some unpleasant things happen to you, though. If reading your Bible is not bringing peace to you - don't read it. God looks on the heart - not on the "works" of spending time reading just because you feel you ought to. Get out there and live what you know, give what you can, and speak when spoken to...if asked. And enjoy the time you have with your mum. It's good, what you're doing with her. And maybe it's God's way of helping you, too.

Grand-daughter, this makes for painful reading and I know there is worse to come. But also there is so much better to come! :)

The HighWay: I googled "The Way International" - first thing up is this website. And I'd been searching for The Way International because I needed the zip code for any letter I might steel myself to writing. ...no such letter was ever written. :P Had been living down the bottom of a deep dark well since being M&A'd mid-90s so no knowledge of lawsuits or anything going on. Was totally shocked. At the time, there were big debates going on within other denominations about how to handle matters like whether homosexuals could be ordained; whether civil partnerships/same sex relationships should be blessed in churches; second marriages where there has been adultery in the first marriage; and paedophilia by RC ministers. I knew TWI would have very strong views and certainly would not condone any such wrongdoing. They stood on what the Bible said and just simply would not allow such conduct. My view of this pristine organization (LOL) was (hmm) somewhat disturbed (!) when I read the documents on the front page at the Cafe.

I know people who refuse to come here because it's too aggressive. When I first came here I was appalled at the libellous comments about some of the leadership of TWI. But I read in a sort of fascinated horror and eventually it began to connect with what I had seen but couldn't comprehend or acknowledge. Eventually I realized that the comments weren't libellous but actually spoke out of a long pattern of evildoing. But my first thought was that these people are so unthankful, so ungrateful, so.... (head in hands). Easy to see why people are put off. Now I'm appalled by how rude some people are to newbies who still hold "TWI truth" in their hearts. It's a sort of "love bombing" in reverse. Give newbies a chance to get through the door, folks! Don't rise to the challenge to "speak the {GSC} truth" quite so aggressively.

Waysider, because I'd wondered if there might be more darker-skinned people, African Americans.

More like VPW and the no-stick gospels. Since by the time he'd finished, there wasn't much of the gospel sticking around.

Hmm... So far, 80% American [uSA] which I'd expected. And 70% identify as white/caucasian, which I'd sort of expected but had hoped might be a lower percentage.

FWIW, I never heard of Waydale. I'm glad this place is called "Grease Spot Cafe". Had it been called Waydale, I probably wouldn't have paid any attention. As it was, I found Grease Spot Cafe as I was looking for the zip code, preparing to crawl back to TWI over broken glass because my life was so miserable on the outside. The intriguing diversion to the Cafe...has distracted me ever since. Never made it back to TWI. Phew!!!

The Anglican church I currently go along to has, after five long years, finally received planning permission to build a new church on the same plot as one that was arsoned. The planning authority threw up all sorts of hurdles, from design, to noise, to access... and this church will be in a deprived area where there are few local facililties, so it will also function as a community centre - something the planners never provided. How many mentions of the adversary? None. How many prayers that, if it be God's will that this church be built, then the planning problems will be sorted out? Many. I've been sitting through an Alpha course with a friend who is just beginning to explore Christianity. He finds the discussions after the talks interesting (unlike the non-discussions after a PFAL session) and finds he learns more from those than from the given "lecture." People seem to drift in and out on these sessions - one week there, the next, absent. For what Alpha sees as the highlight of their course (the "holy spirit" day), my friend was the only non-believer there. Dunno where everyone else was, they all made excuses beforehand. How many times did I hear: "The Adversary has tricked them out of the greatness of God's Word"? None. Just a genuine welcome next time the absentees came to a session. If you don't focus on God or on Jesus, what do you focus on? "The Adversary." And, as we were taught, you become what you look at, focus on. No wonder it was so hard to love God when we were fighting off fear of the adversary all the time.

Gut feeling on this is... I don't want to be "like minded" with anyone any more. Not if it means anyone is forcing it, suspending questions, being afraid to explore ideas...being afraid to explore God. Nonetheless I'm delighted if there are others who agree somewhat or completely with what I understand/believe. I am delighted to find "likemindedness" as in unity of heart and purpose, in fellow Christians who are Trinitarians, who attend a range of churches from mainstream/established to small housegroups. We're likeminded even if we differ on "surface" aspects. I'm interested in where and why they differ. At the end of the day, it's our personal relationship with God that matters. That relationship is not found in reading books (not even the Bible) (and certainly not PFAL). It's found in using our God-given brains to contemplate who God is and meditating in the scriptures to understand Him (and our own lifestyle) better.

News made it to Europe, too. Only thing to be said is: Gooooood!!!!!!! One wonders how he might fare in prison with several hundred "spiritual wives" to choose from...or be chosen by... :wacko:

Rummie, did I hit a sore point? Okay, I was poking fun just a little at USA imperialism - but also at Brit imperialism before that, too!!! Look at the whole post...! I like Americans (inhabitants of the USA) as individuals. I have met some pretty nice people, open and generous in a way not found in a lot of places or some other countries. I have visited the USA on a number of occasions over many years, before, during and after my involvement with TWI. I have a problem with USA imperialism and wanting to run other countries. Your immediate past president did no favors in this regard. Ah well, that's for another forum. If you wanna carry on, start something in Politics and Tacks. If you say, Rummie, it was me who lumped the Americas together as one (and I would change the entry on the poll if it were possible, but it doesn't seem to be possible to change the poll) ...what nationality do you call yourself, Rummie? An American? Or a "USA-an?" If someone from Quebec called himself an American, would you object and say, no, you're a Canadian? What about someone from Mexico, Buenos Aires, Columbia, Tiera del Fuego?

WW - yes, what a good idea. In fact, if the USA realized there were actually other countries and civilizations outside the USA it would be a brilliant thing. Summa those places have cultural backgrounds going back millennia. Before, in fact, the American continents were discovered and claimed (as if they were so much abandoned property) by Europeans. (Don't be too harsh, Twinky; which countries did they learn Imperialism from???)

Hap, would love to hear more about your recollections of that very significant time.

9 November 1989 - the 20th anniversary of the fall of the wall...

Actually, George, if you're being really pedantic, "Whence come you?" since "whence" also incorporates the "from part. But don't let everyone whence (wince) by getting too fancy about stuff. Whence (Once) upon a time I lived in various other countries. Maybe I should tick them, since I'm not actually coming from anywhere at the moment, I'm here and nearly always have been. (LOL) P-Mosh, I was thinking of USA as "America" which is why I also put Canada and South America, rather than "North America" but agreed it's ambiguous/misleading. Do you identify as being an "Other" rather than white/caucasian? Pleased that you give credit to native American ancestry. Antipodean poster, where do you hail from?

For other ignoramuses: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/N._T._Wright. Geisha - shoulda known, or at least checked Wiki before asking the obvious! I'll check out some of his work...sometime. Shows how much notice I take of other religious groups. Still trying to think through and read what seems appropriate. Reading all of the Bible without PFAL-colored glasses is a decent start.

I dunno, Rummie, never heard of it before reading in these forums. Yet funnily enough I came across some book in the library about pre-Christian events alleged to have taken place before the time of Christ. Like lots of the gospel miracles, etc, that allegedly occured before. Or in other religions, traditions or mythologies. Unfortunately as my library ticket was maxed out, I couldn't borrow the book.

How strange. I was at a class where new Christians or those simply investigating Christianity can discuss whatever questions they wish. And someone asked, what is the unforgivable sin? Zzzippp...my mind went straight back to the teaching that T-Bone so carefully describes. But the group facilitator (herself a longstanding Christian) simply said that she wasn't sure. So I'll be watching this discussion with interest. Hope it continues.

Two planes crash into iconic buildings... Three skyscrapers fall down... People falling out of buildings, paper everywhere, ash everywhere... About 3000 people killed... Immensely brave rescue efforts from fire services, some of whose officers were also killed... And VB in his Mog-paranoia says, "Look at me! Look at me!!! Gimmee all your money!!!! I'm the only one who can protect you!!!!" ??? It's a bit of a de-rail but this thread seems to have stagnated ... anybody recently out (or even still in) remember the TWI response?

Hey Psalmie, nice to see you back! How's things?

I've always been interested to know who comes to the Cafe. And I wonder where people come from. These days, everyone seems to be into politically correct questionnaires about one's background, whether you're black, white, striped or checkered. So here's a go at a poll, if you want to humor me. Of course, there will be the usual complaints that I forgot your country or racial group. If you live in one country but have roots from another (eg, "Irish American") it would probably be more realistic checking "America" as your country, unless you were born in Ireland. Neither the countries nor the racial groups are in any kind of order. I don't know if we'll end up as a spread of nationalities and racial groups. It always seemed to me that TWI was mostly white, with darker skinned peoples in their countries (eg, Zaire) but not an overwhelming number of black Americans. But post-PoP, that might just be the people I happened to meet while I was in, or the countries I lived in at the time.

Perennial sort of topic, this one. Have a look at these: