Twinky

For what it's worth, from WikiAnswers: And there were a few other sites with similar answers. Good question, I never thought about it before.

Waysider - exactly! When I started healing from TWI abuse and started to attend a mainstream church - had been there about 3 or 4 times and then it was their annual "reporting" Sunday. "Here's our income, here's where it came from. Here's how we spent it. These are the things we need to spend on next year; this is a longer term project. What we'd like from you is... These are just abridged accounts; you can get a fuller version, and ask any questions, of XXX [who stood up in the congregation, so's he could be identified]." And what they ask for first, is not your hand in your pocket, but how you could be more involved: the different ministries/areas of service. Last of all your money. Every year has been the same. This church never asks for money except at the annual laying out of accounts. Never passes the collection plate. Gives away lots of money, or "things" like meals to those in need. Looks after elderly, youth, families, a particularly poor area of the city. Has fostered one church plant, is fostering another, and is rebuilding a church that was arsoned. Refurbished the church rooms where children's ministry takes place. Jawdropping, after the non-accountability of TWI. If TWI, STFI, whoever, is so open about needs, why don't they show and tell? It's okay (prudent) to make a few strategic reserves. But when they compel everyone else to "travel light" - hey, set the example, huh? Where does the money go, and what are the real "needs" of those (cough) "ministers"? What else do they have the use of? (Log cabins and all)

Never was a research dept. Should have been called the "Plagiarism Dept." Guess they might have been "re-searching" for new material to plagiarize.

Because, soul searcher, in TWI speak, there is, as it were, an omitted word. In Authorised/KJ Version (as used by TWI): 4 Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit. 5 And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord. 6 And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all. 7 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal . VPW logic said (and I could be wrong on this) that the "one" and "another" in verses 8-10 should relate back to the nearest noun and chose "profit" for this: whereas, really, in the KJV translation, the nearest noun is not "profit" but "manifestation". However, the Interlinear renders verse 7 as: "but to each is given the manifestation of the spirit for profit." Which uses "profit" as a noun. Maybe it's a noun; could be a verb as KJV - I don't know enough Greek to say. On VPW's logic using KJV, it shouldn't be different profits [benefits] but different manifestations. And the "profits" are first to bless the person, then to bless the body of believers. 8 For to one [profit/manifestation] is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another [profit/manifestation] the word of knowledge by the same Spirit; 9 To another [profit/manifestation] faith by the same Spirit; to another [profit/manifestation] the gifts of healing by the same Spirit; 10 To another [profit/manifestation] the working of miracles; to another [profit/manifestation] prophecy; to another [profit/manifestation] discerning of spirits; to another [profit/manifestation] divers kinds of tongues; to another [profit/manifestation] the interpretation of tongues: 11 But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally [interlinear: separately] as he [the man] will [desires]. 12 For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body [=manifestations of the spirit], being many, are one body: so also is Christ [=the spirit of Christ]. I simply note that many churchgoers talk of the "gifts" of the spirit and desire "the gift of tongues". The word "manifestation" is from a root word meaning "to render apparent; appeer, manifestly declare, show" and that root word itself is derived from a word meaning "evidently, openly." So nothing about "gifts" there, lots of individual gifts or one bigger gift; only about something being obvious. Whatever, TWI view is that everyone has the full package of holy spirit and has the ability to manifest all 9 of the manifestations.

Oops, wrong thread.

Ho, bro. We've nearly all been through it, to some degree. Feel free to rant, shout, be angry, change your mind lots of times, as you feel your way to your new normal. Lots of wrong has been done; there's lots to get upset about. There are several TWI child survivors at the Cafe. Welcome!

Ah come on. How on earth would he have time for any "moonlighting"? Isn't he too busy cutting the grass with nail clippers or some such useless task? Could this mean (cough) that he has been kicked out? I loved the bit where he said he had a "BS in Administration." Sure does. So much BS at TWI.

One has to actually apply for a staff job? Can't they just order Corps to do the work? Make that their assignment? (Maybe they could just short-circuit those people and write "DNR" - sorry, "DFAC" on their Corps jackets, as the assignees would soon quit) Or maybe there just aren't that many Corps left anymore.

And Orwell's "Animal Farm" whre the new regime ends up indistinguishable from the old - except in the nature of the new regime's greater abuse of its followers.

Well! What news! Congratulations both! Rummie clearly must enjoy delicious Italian cooking. (mmmmm) And anyway, are we hearing from Dooj in this?

I guess what I'm asking is how to uninstall Messenger. I can't be bothered with that stuff. I want my Hotmail account, and I want to go straight to it, not to some stupid page that tells me what stupid things some of the people in my address book are doing. If I want to know what they're doing this minute, I'll ask them. Skype 'em, maybe. Otherwise, I don't care. Can Messenger /Live (I dunno what) be deleted or uninstalled? Because in Control Panel there is no installed program called Messenger to uninstall. Is it something I have to do through Firefox? If so, how? Anyone? Please??

The pages "About us" and "Statement of Beliefs" are clearly lifted straight from something TWI put out - an earlier edition of their own website, probably. The rest is written in quirky style, by a non-native English speaker (and God bless his little cotton socks, he writes better English than most of us could write Hindi, so I'm not knocking him). There's quite an interesting little section about "What is religion?" Sangat has not been affiliated with TWI for decades. He hangs out with CFFM but has a huge ministry in India. He also does tours in Europe and in the USA en route to CFFM. Because of the background in the Indian culture, he does not teach things that would be exactly as TWI would do it but (gasp) attuned to the cultural norms of the people he lives with.

What mstar said! Why waste your time reading, when there was all that Way stuff to keep current on. Or even read the Bible! In rez [under LCM], we were banned from reading anything non-Way. I was in Plurality Palace one day and someone had put some books, including some novels, in there. Relieved at finding something different for a change, I plonked myself down and started to have a quiet read. What do you know but a few minutes later, one of my Corps sis came in - saw me reading whatever-it-was - and said if I didn't put it down immediately, she'd report me to the Corps Coord. I've been reading since I was two years old, have got myself locked in the library a couple of times (at least) after closing time (), am a prolific reader of a huge range of books, and if I get any more, I will have to move house. Oh-oh...but the local library is having is annual book sale this week - fill a bag for some minute amount of money....

It is odd, isn't it, how animals play gentle with baby animals of other species. They know. Now we need a picture of Rocket. Or Rocket and Lilly. Sounds too cute. Great neck warmer - like those "fox fur" things women used to don (yeuk) only yours is so much better. We used to have a cat (had her from a teeny kitten) and she loved my dad and rode around on his neck. Even as an adult cat, she especially liked running up his back if he had a shirt off, and perching on his shoulders. Dad didn't think this was quite as much fun.......

Jeff, I only know you from here, but I'd say you have a life. A pretty good one, too. You have had some horrible things happen in your life so far, but you've survived to tell the tale, and you something genuine to share with others. You have found compassion and the ability to see through lies and deception. You've been hurt, but you've got over that. You've been belittled, slandered, abused, and you've got over that. You've grown in your ability to discern the truth behind the facade. You've found a strength that you did not know you had. You have found backbone to stand up to abusers. Life is not the same as it was before. Some things aren't going to be as they might have been - your future with your wife, your son. That doesn't mean you don't have a bright future ahead - you can look to God to be a rewarder, to restore the years the locust has stolen. Meanwhile, the person who posted that horrible thing needs to look in their own life to see what they're treasuring: short sightedness, bitterness, lack of compassion, lack of empathy, lack of loving kindness. The spiritual thoughts that that person harbors do not seem to emanate from the God of love. Poor them. They need to get a life, LOL, a real life in community with other people, with all their attendant messiness and difficulties.

Get away, T&O! They could get heaps of positive quotes from people on staff. But they would also say the same thing. "I'm so blessed to be able to serve at HQ." "It's such a privilege to work with such awesome men of God." "I've learned such a lot [in some undefined area] since I've been here." It'd all be in Wayspeak. They could quite easily order staff members to write some "unsolicited comments." What you wouldn't get is: "The organization supported me through getting my [nationally or State recognized qualification] in ..." "TWI sent me to help at the local shelter for homeless people. I got to really help them and could see the difference I was able to make in those people's lives." "I trained as a ... and was able to stretch my ability by ..." "This is the most satifying job I have ever had." And hey, I'm not knocking staff members. The ones I knew were lovely, often talented, people, who were in stultifyingly boring jobs, desperate to find ways to do something worthwhile.

Heh, the girlies have refused to go out at all during all the snow we have had. I would open the door and they would rush to the back of the room, as far as they could from the door. Yesterday was rubbish collection day. It was still very snowy round the access road at the rear of the house. I went up to check the rubbish bin, which hadn't been emptied. I tucked Tuxy under my arm when I went out - she didn't like this and struggled to escape. I set her down beside the garden path but on the garden, with her feet in the snow. She was shocked and scampered back down the garden path, howling as if in deep distress. You know, that yowlll-owwlll sort of wail. Crypto was standing at the kitchen door, gazing with a concerned expression on her face. I guess they won't be building snow-cats, then, if we get any more snow. Today all the snow has gone, many inches, disappeared overnight. The girlies went out (a little reluctantly) - Tuxy's first call was to see if the fish was okay. He is. He is still under several inches of ice but his little white tail was visible, wiggling in his plant pot hidy-hole. I left Tuxy outside assuming the role of protector.

Hooray hooray, the snow has all melted. My lawn went from thick white to yellowy green overnight. Just a few slivers of snow along my wall where the sun doesn't reach at this time of year. Have been watching them melt rapidly during the day. The cats went out today, too, for the first time for about a month. Interesting to see the little shoots that have still been putting on a little growth under all the snow.

Don't know anything about gluten allergy, but I am pretty sure that a lot of allergies today come from too much insecticide, fertiliser, growth hormones, etc, that are sprayed on or around stuff. Also, people are getting bigger (height and girth) - I figure, if you stuff an animal (especially poultry) with things to make it grow quicker, that growth hormone HAS to be within the meat when eaten - hence it will affect growth in top predators (human beings). A particularly good reason for eating less meat and more vegs, and home-growing what you can. Good to hear your news, Kimberley. Bramble, hope your tests reveal something that you can eliminate from diet simply and effectively.

Haven't seen it, but an article in a newspaper today reads: "The utopian 3D fantasy world of Avatar has left some cinema-goers unable to cope with reality - and even feeling suicidal. Fans ... claim they want to stay on Pandora ... The fan forum [has] a topic thread entitled "Ways to cope with the depression of the dream of Pandora being intangible" and has received more than 1,000 posts. ... Visual realism in the film is causing the depression, claim experts. "It makes real life seem more imperfect," says New York psychiatrist Dr Stephan Quentzel." The article contains extracts from the forum where people claim to have contemplated suiside so that they can be rebirthed in a world similar to Pandora. And suchlike posts. Wow. Just what anyone would want to go and see. :wacko:

Does what we say apply to the current TWI? Well, the top leadership is much the same. In other words, the current TWI is not much different from TWI-1 or TWI-2 or any other version. The style of management is much the same. The separation from other people is still the same, ie, no integration with mainstream Christian groups. No discussions or joint events. Not even a debate, where TWI doctrine could be considered alongside mainstream theology. No promotion of the works of other Christian writers of the current day - just the same old same old. So there isn't so much compulsion to do things (or so we're told). Do current "members" still feel obliged to attend SNS, traveling long distances to do so? Do people still have to tithe, or go beyond the tithe - or get chucked out? In this, I'm mindful that CFFM, which is an offshoot of TWI, had a public debate over a couple of weeks, on the topic of the trinity. It was open for attendance to CFFM, to the mainstream church nearby, and to anyone else who wanted to attend. I'm not debating the merits or otherwise of CFFM - just saying that they are being more open about what they believe and teach, moving in a different direction. No such moves from TWI, which is as anxious as ever to hoard people (and their money) to themselves. So even if the info at GSC is "out of date" - it applies to an out-of-date organization.

They don't know how lucky they are! RC hung very tight with TWI at one time and was on the Board of Trustees, wasn't he? So you'd have to think "like-minded" here. He wouldn't get to BoT level without knowing about the bad goings-on. Geer's "ministry" is a different thing made by selling materials to fellowship coordinators. It doesn't have the same structure as TWI. Geer was in Europe for a while, but it all fell apart pretty quickly at PoP. Don't know that the abuse practiced at HQ was as prevalent in Europe, but there was among some people a relaxed attitude towards sexual liaisons.

mstar - they are very hard workers. They work so hard at "working the word" so that they can teach it. ...oh...you meant practical outworking... I would like to give them a few leftover loaves from the bakery, and some fish or slices of ham or whathaveyou - see them feed 5000 households. Or 4000 households. (Twice is established! It must be possible!). Or they could even do a regular local soup run, with just the basic "unmultiplied" ingredients.

If God is always the same, no shadow of turning, then the so-called OT vengeful God is no other than the NT God of grace and mercy. And likewise, the OT God is a God of grace and mercy, and the NT God is vengeful. There are some lovely passages in Micah (it's only a little book; have a read). "Who is a God like you, who forgives iniquity and passes over the transgression of the remnant of his heritage? He retains not his anger forever, because he delights in mercy and loving-kindness." (Micah 7:18 AMP, a sort of conclusion to the whole book). What do you want to look for? It's in there. You can see a mean vengeful God - or you can see a caring God. I think there is much in the OT that we of TWI do not fully understand because we were misdirected. A re-read without PFAL-colored glasses might be in order! It's contradictory but there has usually been scope for those who want to escape "God's wrath" to escape same. Good post, Geisha, but I think I have to take issue with this: Is it? Always? "Basically"? God? "Takes you out"? How does that fit with John 10:10a - "steal, kill and destroy" - the mission of "the thief" - the devil? Anyway, to pursue that particular line might be a bit off topic, and what Geisha wanted was to discuss perceptions of God in the OT compared with the NT. Jesus lived in a country under brutal occupation by a feared and greatly hated army. What did he say? "Turn the other cheek." His own supporters were unimpressed with this response, and some walked away. In the OT, Israel commonly got into trouble when it made allegiances with other nations for offensive purposes. God said that he would defend his people. It wasn't always instant deliverance. When it came to defensive purposes, they were to arm themselves but not go after the opposition. When they did, they suffered. How Jesus might advise the President today? He "advised" the leaders of his day. He told the Pharisees and the Sadduccees that they were hypocrites. He challenged them on their behavior. He challenged them to do the Godly thing. He challenged them to have grace and mercy. A soft answer turneth away wrath. Colin Powell tried a soft (less aggressive) answer and got kicked out by the warmongers. Jesus got to stand before the local ruler of the occupying army (Pilate) and what did he say? Nothing at all! (How's that for a soft answer?!) He let the hypocrites expose their own warped standards. The bold prophet Nathan confronted king David on his hypocrisy, greed, lust, murderous behavior. I think a hypothetical Jesus would challenge the US govt on its hypocrisy, its greed, its ill behavior toward other countries. The US has no leg to stand on, for example, when it comes to "democratic elections" when in fact the presidency (any presidency) is not acquired by merit but by the biggest campaign coffer and how many interest groups can be got onside. I could say much on this - but that'd relegate this thread to Politics and Tacks.

I think we might be beginning to have a bit of a thaw too. I'm sure there is a garden somewhere out there, under all that white stuff. It's been interesting seeing the tracks in the snow. There is a fine blackbird family lives nearby, and Mr Blackbird visits frequently. He churned up a surprisingly large area in the fresh snow on the lawn looking for crumbs underneath. He has hopped around in other areas, leaving quite a distinctive track where feet and his tail have been. Other bigger birds have been there too. I have been putting out bits of bread and chopped up bacon rind and other meat fragments for them. The collared doves might have visited but they don't seem as smart as the blackbird. I haven't seen Mrs Blackbird; hope she has survived. Way above the lawn, on the vege part of the garden, I saw footprints from some small four-legged critter, probably a cat. Just the one set, and only one set in a week. My girlies (see "Cat Whispering") refuse to go near the door and when it is open, rush off to the back of the room to hide. I've enjoyed several walks through snow-laden woods over the weekend and am amazed at the number of small birds there are about. They must be finding it hard. I saw a wren yesterday, the smallest British native bird. How do these tiny creatures stay alive, when human beings have been found frozen in the streets or their own gardens?