Twinky

My garden is finally getting going...sort of. I've been rebuilding the path, and the soil from under the new aggregate has been in heaps all over the growing area. It's now bagged into huuuge bags and will be spread on the lawn to raise the level a little, when the new path is laid. So I have managed to plant my runner beans, which are looking lovely, very sturdy, and well rooted. They all took this year, not so many as other years, but doing much better. I have planted peas (not doing too well); these are underplanted with strawberries which are swelling up nicely (must net them soon to keep the woodpigeons away). The autumn raspberries are producing so much stem/plant that they are in danger of swamping that bit of garden - this is their 2nd year, so I should get a reasonable crop (I hope). I started brassicas from seed and they are now pricked out and have started to grow. I have sown lettuce, rocket and beetroot seeds but nothing showing yet. There are some self-set potatoes and they seem to be thriving. They're right where the beans are but hey, they can fight it out between themselves. Meanwhile, last year's leeks are still in the ground and have grown flower stalks - the flowers will be out soon. Should I dig 'em out now, or let 'em seed and use the seed next year? (Might depend on the available space!!) I have been given loads of tomatoes, which will go into gro-bags or planters, not the garden. No swetcorn this year; disappointing last year. No courgettes (yet) this year. Might try and get some plants on Sat from the Farmers Market. My hanging baskets are still not set up. Tomorrow, perhaps. The plants are shrivelling through neglect.

Have a whole heap of fun.

Go for it with passion, OldSkool. Who gave you the talent? So go glorify God, and use what he gave you. Don't bury that talent in the ground ... wait, you already did that. Time to exhume it and get using it. Life is to be lived and enjoyed. Heck, God thinks music is so important that at the time of establishing the rites of the Israelite congregation, he had a whole division of singer-songwriters. TWI put you under a guilt trip about anything that wasn't connected with what they thought was God's will for your life. They are expert in that at least - instilling guilt and self-condemnation. Send it right back where it belongs. Maybe you can post some audio tracks somehow - GS Radio??? (Musack in the Cafe, hey, things get better every day!)

You daft lot, the mantle that is referred to is a gas mantle - after all, we're to be lights of the world, aren't we, or was that just Jesus, and we are salt of the earth or some such? Gas lighting

T&O, I think you have a good point there. It really was much more of a discussion than a sit-still-and-keep-quiet sort of thing. We see the young Jesus in the temple - asking questions of the educated rabbis of the time, seeking their views and opinions. We see the passionate Paul, debating with the Greeks - and they will "hear him again." Go away, think about it, mull it over, ask more questions. Bring to bear their critical thinking skills. I find I myself learn much more when I'm sharing with someone, and have to "defend" my point of view, not that a defence is necessary, rather that it's a more detailed explanation or showing the logic. Others ask questions, and you (I) have to think about what you (I) think you (I) know. It's not "done" with a large congregation (or even a small one!) - why not? Would it become too disorderly? Ingrained fear of church ministers of being challenged? Ingrained submissiveness of congregations - or their lack of thorough Biblical teaching? In my church, the person delivering the sermon also writes a short note of the main points s/he covers and then poses a few questions, maybe 4-6, and these are discussed in the small groups (about 10-15 people) where each person gets to say what they think. It can be a thought-provoking time. My small group and I thought each other's ideas rather bizarre, when I first started going. The way someone might say, "but what about ...?" would point out flaws of TWI teachings, that might have been red-flagged at the time, but there was little time to discuss with others due to the mind-numbing length of sermons. (In that, TWI is not unique; I've been to other church services where the preacher has gone on too long.) 2 For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified. So how much, then, should one relate personal anecdotes - "what God has done for me" - type of thing? Ever? Never? If so, when?

Are you sure the meeting isn't so that everyone on the Cabinet knows that the others haven't been booted out overnight, LOL?

(emphasis as shown in Companion Bible, not sure if this will show as that Gothic script) (bold bit is my emphasis and what I'd like to talk about) I'd welcome a discussion of this, the practical effects of 2:2. I excerpted a little from chapters 1 and 2, but you might like to look at the whole of both chapters before responding. The way TWI taught this, you just spoke about the risen Christ and his accomplishments. You toured people round the epistles. You showed them what the scriptures, particularly the epistles, said – about Christ, about the hearer's status as a (spiritual) son of God (seated in the heavenlies, etc). And what Wayfers say is often said without regard to who the person is that they are speaking, and with little regard for that person's life and the things they may be having to cope with. I meet one or two occasionally. Their mouths are full of scriptures – but their hearts seem devoid of interest in me, my life, what I might need, etc. Neither do they seem able to relate to worldly events and perhaps put a "spiritual perspective" on them (other than "works of the adversary"). I think that has to be wrong teaching. My view is that we aren't to take notice of "endless fables" and genealogies – my influential family is this, my job is that, I've got a doctorate in – blah blah. But not, that we are not to take an interest in people and their lives so far. How on earth can you win anyone to Christ, if you don't have the faintest idea of their circumstances? If you express no concern for that person? Surely then you are in serious danger of being on an almighty ego trip - look at me, how many Bible verses I know!! (Not necessarily: how well I understand those verses.) I think Paul is saying that he's not standing in his own authority, credentials etc (though he does mention these in Phil 3:5). And he is demonstrating by his life and lifestyle how he himself knows the risen Christ. Neither is he trying to "trick them" with enticing words, fancy words, misleading information, twisted scriptures, or preachifying at them. He stands in the authority and strength that was instilled in him on the road to Damascus. Nothing else is worthy, and definitely not his "old" life. Perhaps he is also showing Christ - by what he doesn't say. Paul remained acutely aware of what was going on in the churches he founded, where the disputes arose, where people weren't likeminded, where they were not practicing proper principle. When we look at the risen Christ during the time he remained with the disciples, what was he doing? Hanging out with the disciples – cooking a meal for them, still being their servant, visiting them – opening the scriptures and teaching them so that they really understood – even helping them with their businesses (John 21). 1 Pet 3:15 reminds us that we are always to be ready to give an answer to anyone who asks a reason of the hope that is in us, with meekness and fear [respect]. So clearly the lifestyle there is not one of preachifying either, such that little else is known about the speaker. Because if the person were preachifying so much – there would be no need to even ask the question, never mind give an answer. It would seem strange if Paul did not use different methods, depending on his hearers. If speaking in a synagogue to Jews who were already instructed in the OT, he could expound the scriptures. With the "Greeks" he preached the "unknown God". And in those situations, that would be right, perhaps. There are many such records. But when speaking with individuals or living with them (eg Lydia, Acts 16) - don't you think he might have talked with them on a more personal basis? Discuss.

Rosalie in Levis...

There was quite along thread about this, a couple of years ago. Regrettably, I can't find it now. Wolfie is good at finding things...?

Hi 100%. Welcome, and have a coffee and cake. Have you been a lurker for a while? You can tell us a bit about yourself in the My Story section (if you want to). You can find out a bit about some of us in the same place. Have fun! The newspapers supplied free in this cafe are the Daily Wail, The Times of our Lives, USeful Today, the Bust'em Herald and the Wash-your-hands-of'em Post. Heh heh.

Are you calling the BoD "fairies"? Definitely proof that the homosexual purge is over!

Wonder how much her market rent is? Based on square footage, or rents available in the area? Would that include the facilities (swimming pool)? Or does she OWN that house? If so, why? Why doesn't she sell it and give the money to "the ministry" - after all, her need for accommodation is met and so it's surplus. She could always move into the trailer park, or even Founders Hall - like everyone else. Proof that what's yours is mine, and what's mine is my own. Furthermore, they demand ABS, which is the tithe+ - but the tithe went to support the Levites - who were forbidden to own land. So if she wants a tithe (or tithe+) then she should fulfil her half of the deal - own no property. Not even a house with a swimming pool. Not even a woodland up north somewhere.

Polynesian, who threatened you? Can't quite see M@l Ge0rge heaving you out of the window, but maybe you mean someone else? Stoopid sh1ts. Hey, did they threaten or abuse your kids, that you know of? Maybe you could PM me and tell me a bit more about JYD. Thought he was one of the good guys - at the time anyway. Ah no. The good guys got thrown out...that was you.

And sure, it's right to pray for your leadership, your twig, your twig coordinator, and all the others...but NOT to the exclusion of everyone else. When PoP was going down, of course I was in the dark, like so many others (though later I got some special information). I do recall praying in twig one night for (as it were) both the HQ lot and the Gartmore lot. That kinda drew some funny looks. What, I should have known about that vile paper by revelation, by telepathy, CG should have sent me a copy???

What, zackly, were you praying for, Ham? (And were you around to pray for Rosie?) Who knows how bad they could have been WITHOUT prayers?

It really doesn't matter who else took the class. Or didn't. And since we never got any formal documentation of any of TWI's claims, well, who knows? Methinks if there had been anything so amazingly awesomely good, such as some of thte incidents in this thread, TWI would have made a real big deal of it and documented it all over the place. Newspaper clippings and what have you. Perhaps a lot of the documentation disappeared into the same place as the piece of paper that said boys conceived prior to their parents' marriage were bar mitzvah'd at age 12 (which couldn't have happened anyway). I have no doubt, though, that at least occasionally there were quiet miracles happening that we never got to hear about, simply because they were at a local level.

>The church as a whole can have a very valuable role in helping people recover from abusive organizations – IF those needing help find the right church. (Y’all know what the wrong church is like.) Where you choose to go should feel safe, give you space to do what you need to do and be who you need to be, give you time to heal. >No, they are not a mandatory step, but they can definitely help you settle into the wider Christian body and you can explore your beliefs with other people who are not of a cult mindset. >They aren’t “the only way” to live a Christian life: the only way to do that is to love God, his son Jesus Christ, and to do your best to keep the commandments that are applicable to us. But going to a church can help us sort out what is appropriate behavior, and offer outlets – like involvement in different facets of “church life.” For myself, I find the church I go to very healing. Often the sermon would cause me to weep. When I first went there, tears would flood my eyes, because of the gentle and caring way the vicar presented (for lack of a better expression) his “message.” The vicar is HIGHLY educated, incredibly intelligent, and is very gentle and humble, and takes great care not to be overbearing. That’s the way the whole church is run. There are no demands for money, though they are open about finances. It took me a long time to find an offertory box at the back of the church. There is time for spontaneity within the service – prayers, a “picture” that came to a member of the congregation, a verse that occurs to someone. It’s quite a large church (perhaps not by US standards). There are a number of people in this congregation who themselves have survived abusive churches elsewhere or have been a part of church splits (splits in a bad way, not because of growth). One time, the vicar felt compelled to apologize to people who had been sucked into cults. He apologized on behalf of the mainstream churches and said that it was because mainstream Christianity had failed to teach properly and accurately. If mainstream Christianity had done its job, the cults and abusive organizations wouldn’t have a look-in. (Enjoy the apology, folks, it may the only one you ever get. TWI ain’t gonna do it.) The church has a series of house groups, each of about a dozen or so people. There is no compulsion to attend. I went to one for a couple of years, till it folded for various reasons. I was clearly very odd, and one of my friends from that group told me I was so much easier to talk to now – she said they never knew what strange thing would next come out of my mouth. It enabled me to explore some ideas from TWI (especially with regard to telling others what to do), and the incredulous looks that I got at times were startling to me. I do not believe “like mindedly” with them – they are very “trinitarian” and that’s rubbish to me – but I enjoy their obvious love for God, desire to do what His will is, and their openness and their outreach to disadvantaged groups in my city. There’s a number of people who are on the mission field for longer or shorter periods, and they are remembered and prayed for regularly. I see lives of genuine Christian service in so many facets of life, both in this country and worldwide. I don’t do anything I don’t want to and quite often turn up late for the service – BECAUSE I CAN. I am welcomed very kindly and nobody says a thing. I can offer suggestions, and some of these have been acted on (or are in process of being acted on). Nobody has given me any specific "counselling" but help is always available. Had I wanted some specific counselling or guidance, it would have been available. I wasn't interested, having had TWI "leadership" demanding information or interfering far too much. The kindness and patience of people in the church and in the house group was enough; that and God working in my heart. I celebrate what we as a congregation have in common. I enjoy seeing how God has worked in other people’s lives. I don’t explore the differences much, just mull them over in my mind. This place is great for me right now. When it ceases to be great for me – I’ll move on and find somewhere that does suit better. I believe God led me to that church; and God will lead me from it when He’s ready. The difference is: this time I’ll listen better!

Proverbs 19:24 A slothful man hideth his hand in his bosom, and will not so much as bring it to his mouth again.

Friends, that's exactly right. Absolutely! Gotta pray for these guys, the BoD, your TWI leadership at all levels, etc. Wassmatter, didn't you ever read this verse? And who persecuted you more than the (TWI) household of God, and the leadership of TWI? <_<

LOL, Waysider!!!!

They detached themselves from reality a long time ago, by hiding in the cornfield and failing to have contact with people in their ordinary lives. They're suffering from delusions, group-think mentality. That place in Ohio is a sort of self-build lunatic asylum.

This is an easier to understand explanation of the love of God: Simple, huh? Explained once to the scribe, and he "got it" straight away. No need for fancy explanations, literals according to usage, foreign or cult words. And elsewhere, there is an explanation (Luke 10:29-37) that "neighbour" doesn't just mean those in the household, those of your tribe, cultural background, particular belief system...it means...EVERYONE. Bless those that persecute you...blessing is a part of agape.

The man donated thousands of dollars..."example of a successful believer"...Special treatment... Doesn't kowtow and moves on with life. Thereby becomes possessed... Gee. After all God had done for him. All those doors that had been opened for him. Who knows what was on offer at the special parties. Maybe that's why he left.

Who's this "most"? Cos it's new to people at the Cafe. If you have to stay home to take care of your family, do you not get some state aid to help you financially? Maybe because you spend your time making extraordinarily long posts, presenting yourself as an expert, refusing to answer reasonable requests, obfuscating. Stop whining and just get on with proper responses. How you spend the rest of your life is up to you. Obfuscation There's a burden of proof on any "expert" to show him/herself so, when they push their agenda as much as you're doing. What it's about, as you well know, is that all of us here have been scammed with this story once already. How does this proverb read in Aramaic, Hebrew or whatever else is your specialist subject?

And I didn't ask about your doctrine, I asked WHY YOU DIDN'T GET A JOB! At least put some effort into trying to get a job!! Or do you class yourself as self-employed? Self-employed cult leader?