Twinky

Greasespot Cafe has helped so very many of us. It's an awesome self-help group. Brainfixed, you can shout us all a coffee. Maybe Pawtucket would welcome a financial contribution to the running costs of the board. Dunno how much ten years of therapy might cost you, but Paw's not out for a profit. Glad you're so much better and able to handle life!

Yikes, where have I heard that before? Sounds too much like "a worldwide, nondenominational Biblical research, teaching, and fellowship ministry to teach those who are hungering and thirsting for the truth how to understand the Bible." This also doesn't seem an honest thread. Post #1 asks for articles - but post #5 goes on to promote the poster's own work...again.

Hey OS I didn't say that TWI's lifestyle is Christian. But it is the lifestyle I'm doing my best to live. And, I guess, was - before a too-long diversion via Ohio.

Dunno what a Christian lifestyle has cost me. But the price paid to TWI was huge. Ever hear this one, or a variation on it? (Sometime said in church-y circles to uppity leaders/pastors....) "The congregation already has a savior - and it's not the pastor!"

What is this link, Donna? something with a .rm ending. What does it want, to open it? Is it worth opening? Precis, anyone?

From mstar's link: Included in the list of books banned in this district was the acclaimed novel about Japanese internment during WW II - Snow Falling on Cedars. This book was also challenged in the Richardson ISD Lake Highlands High School where it was used in the classroom. The report by the district stated that: "student's parent complained; however, student read book anyway even though an alternate book was on the list and allowed." So these bigots - ban a book about bigotry?

I think (and thought at the time) that the advanced class test was just a test to see how indoctrinated you were already. If you hadn't taken the bait so far, you were unlikely to do so with the Advanced Class. In fact, you might even see through it for the hocus-pocus that it was. But if you "passed" the test, you were obviously a good candidate to feed more junk food and to lay more burdens upon.

If we want something from God, it behooves us to play our part, too. We can't just be a-prayin' about things. A bit like someone saying, I want good health, I want to be healed of such and such an illness ...but never bothering to wash oneself or clean one's teeth or do any kind of "preventive" work. We might say we want good health...but then our actions negate that. And likewise, with other things, we can refuse to take appropriate action. We don't knock on the doors, don't write the letter, don't do our best in the job we've got... So we "claim" something with our mouths, but our actions (hearts) show otherwise. It reminded me of this: James 2:14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him? 15 If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food, 16 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit? 17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone. 18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works. Were we, perhaps, tricked into saying to our own selves, "depart in peace, be warmed and filled" and not doing what was needful to our own bodies? Not doing what we needed, to get on in life? Not putting in the study, the hard work, the - whatever - to succeed in secular terms, but rather, expecting God to magically make what we wanted, come to pass? because we were so busy "studying the Word" (gag) which is more important? So, then, as we did all that Bible study, weren't we "earning" a response from God, rather than allowing his grace to bring it to pass? Shouldn't it be that, we get stuck into our normal daily life, or prepare for our activities, or whatever...always mindful of God's love and grace, always keeping him and what we perceive as his will, right in the forefront of our thinking and activities. That's just living "heartily as unto the Lord." And that gives God scope to bring us before those who can help us, to those who will open doors. For example, Joseph in prison in Egypt probably prayed a lot for release - but he also got on with the business of helping others, getting involved in their lives, developing his people-skills. He didn't sit in his cell all day hiding from the world - or on his knees praying (Genesis 39-41). Just think about that...do you reckon VPW got his eye removed...by a "believer" who believed God to "work in him" and move his fingers in the right place to carry out the surgery - or do you suppose the surgeon had practiced and practiced and practiced, and made sure he was as skillful as possible when he worked on patients? I do believe that prayer works. I do believe that God can go over and above anything that we pray for. And I do believe that some prayers require considerable "input" from us. Our lives should be prayers in action.

Sounds a bit "Prince Caspian" to me (Narnia series). If that's the future ... I'm joining somewhere else RIGHT NOW. What a horrid version of The Return. VPW is the captain, and Jesus (not mentioned) is no doubt pulling on the oars as a galley slave or some such, huh?

I think OS is going for the record of how many posts can made in the shortest time.

So much protest at homosexuals... Parades round RoA carrying placards. Escalating some years later to huuuuge long screaming sessions during Corps Nights. Accusations about anyone kicked out or M&A'd that they were homos or homo-sympathisers or homo-fantasisers. And all because ... the lady loves ... Rosalie. Well, dunno about love but certainly got physical with. And since LCM couldn't scream at D0nna or control her as he wished, he took it out on everyone else. Like kicking the cat when you have a bad day at work. Meeooowww! LCM forgot - that his own behavior assaulting women might have provoked D0nna's disgust with him and her turning to another (who knows the real ins and outs of R&D?, not that that's the subject here). He also forgot that God loves us ALL and that Jesus died for us ALL including homosexuals. And adultery is an offence against God just the same as homosexuality is an offence against God.

"Toxic Faith" is good to read, too. I never read a Bible for many years. And then couldn't pick up a KJV. I liked The Message because it's so radically different. I read all sorts of versions now. Enjoy your friends and family, who love and support you despite your Way-weirdness. Don't "judge" them for what they do and think all their actions are devil-spirit inspired. (You'll get yourself really confused.) Read a lot here, and think about the discussions. You will be very surprised at the range of views. Shocked, maybe, about how far some of us have "strayed from the truth." ...No, we haven't, we're just trying to make sense of things. Be patient with yourself. God loves YOU. He will never leave or abandon you. Jesus loves YOU (you might have some difficulty with coming to terms with "Jesus" since he was hardly mentioned in TWI) and he won't abandon you either. Be angry. Be joyful. Be thankful. Be yourself. Be your real self.

Amazing, OldSkool. There was a high attrition rate from my Corps, but we started out very much bigger. I thought at the time that throwing someone out every so often, together with the culture of fear (disguised as doing one's best for God), was designed to keep the remainder in line, lest we too get thrown out. With so few in your Corps, they hadn't the disposable bodies to try that tactic.

"Oirish git"? Poly, that's not very polite of you. Try something else. "Fekking eejit" for example. Or, "Feisigh do thoin fein" which apparently means "F-ck your own donkey (?)." (You might need another word there .) I liked the Oirish git. But that was then. Now, you tell me, he has gone the way of other TWI leadership. (edited cos the fonts went funny)

I never understood that reference, anyway. In view of what I know now, it might have been better to refer to Solomon, who asked for a wise and discerning heart. He did some good things and judged wisely - in the beginning. And also, kept harems of women. Any woman he wanted, he took. (Sound familiar?) If you're looking for "heart" how about Josiah? He cleaned the place up really well: 2 Kings 23:25 Neither before nor after Josiah was there a king like him who turned to the LORD as he did--with all his heart and with all his soul and with all his strength, in accordance with all the Law of Moses. The "God's own heart" reference isn't from the OT at all but from Acts, where Paul is presenting the Lord Jesus Christ to the people of Antioch: 16 Then Paul stood up , and beckoning with his hand said , Men of Israel, and ye that fear God, give audience . 17 The God of this people of Israel chose our fathers, and exalted the people when they dwelt as strangers in the land of Egypt, and with an high arm brought he them out of it. 18 And about the time of forty years suffered he their manners in the wilderness. 19 And when he had destroyed seven nations in the land of Chanaan, he divided their land to them by lot . 20 And after that he gave unto them judges about the space of four hundred and fifty years, until Samuel the prophet. 21 And afterward they desired a king: and God gave unto them Saul the son of Cis, a man of the tribe of Benjamin, by the space of forty years. 22 And when he had removed him, he raised up unto them David to be their king; to whom also he gave testimony , and said , I have found David the son of Jesse, a man after mine own heart,which shall fulfil all my will. 23 Of this man's seed hath God according to his promise raised unto Israel a Saviour, Jesus: 24 When John had first preached before his coming the baptism of repentance to all the people of Israel. 25 And as John fulfilled his course, he said , Whom think ye that I am ? I am not he. But, behold , there cometh one after me, whose shoes of his feet I am not worthy to loose . 26 Men and brethren, children of the stock of Abraham, and whosoever among you feareth God, to you is the word of this salvation sent . 27 For they that dwell at Jerusalem, and their rulers, because they knew him not , nor yet the voices of the prophets which are read every sabbath day, they have fulfilled them in condemning him. 28 And though they found no cause of death in him, yet desired they Pilate that he should be slain . 29 And when they had fulfilled all that was written of him, they took him down from the tree, and laid him in a sepulchre. 30 But God raised him from the dead: 31 And he was seen many days of them which came up with him from Galilee to Jerusalem, who are his witnesses unto the people. 32 And we declare unto you glad tidings , how that the promise which was made unto the fathers, 33 God hath fulfilled the same unto us their children, in that he hath raised up Jesus again ; as it is also written in the second psalm, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee. 34 And as concerning that he raised him up from the dead, now no more to return to corruption, he said on this wise , I will give you the sure mercies of David. 35 Wherefore he saith also in another psalm, Thou shalt not suffer thine Holy One to see corruption. 36 For David, after he had served his own generation by the will of God, fell on sleep , and was laid unto his fathers, and saw corruption: 37 But he, whom God raised again , saw no corruption. 38 Be it known unto you therefore, men and brethren, that through this man is preached unto you the forgiveness of sins: 39 And by him all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses. 40 Beware therefore, lest that come upon you, which is spoken of in the prophets; 41 Behold, ye despisers, and wonder, and perish : for I work a work in your days, a work which ye shall in no wise believe, though a man declare it unto you. 42 And when the Jews were gone out of the synagogue, the Gentiles besought that these words might be preached to them the next sabbath. 43 Now when the congregation was broken up , many of the Jews and religious proselytes followed Paul and Barnabas: who, speaking to them, persuaded them to continue in the grace of God. What's the context? The lineage of Jesus - not the outstandingness of David. Why does Paul mention David? Because David was such a significant builder and establisher of the state of Israel. And now, Paul is preaching about Jesus and about who is the true Israel. David was a man after God's heart at the time he was selected to be king. God later barred him from significant privileges, like actually building the temple, because of David's own lifestyle ("man of blood"). Even though David was doing what he thought was right - attacking the enemies of Israel, fighting "Godly" wars. Right? Maybe. After God's heart? Who knows; David wasn't exactly blessing those who persecuted him - or persecuted Israel. <a name="47">

The "no gifts/bribe" policy came in when (field) people were offered old computers, sofas, old cars, etc, by members of their twigs, businesses they'd worked with, etc. It was aimed more at non-TWI people giving things to (in particular) field Corps. Very unfair, because field Corps didn't have a lot of income to begin with. They had to be self-funding (before field Corps were taken onto the staff payroll...and shortly thereafter all taken off the staff payroll, LOL), but because of TWI responsibilities found it difficult to maintain well-paying jobs. They were not allowed to take full time jobs (why would you want to pursue a career, when the greatness of God's Word was at stake? And to pursue a career that the WC person might have had before WC was seen as "returning to vomit"). Very unfair, because only a few years earlier, being given equipment would have been seen as "God blessing you" and providing for your needs. Very unfair, because this "no gifts" policy was to show those outside the Way that their contributions were not required. We're not beggars, you know! But in fact ... we were. It was in this context that the bribes/devil spirits thing came in - in context of gifts (of physical things) from non-Wayfers to field Corps. And so, instead of letting people just give where they had what would ease another's need, the giving from sheer generosity of heart was actively discouraged. As to gifts for leaders, class coordinators, etc, from grateful Wayfers, that didn't come in till a couple of years later. And then LCM said that it was because gifts were getting too extravagant and it wasn't appropriate. (It sounded good at the time.) I've an idea that a limit on the value of such gifts was set. But who was it that was getting the gifts? You know it! Probably because his closet was full of fancy suits or his garage full of posh cars. Unfair, because monetary gifts were still given to LCM, as a thank you even for taped classes, where his physical presence was never seen. Not to the coordinators of those classes, mind, who had done all the work.

Nothing new under the sun: The Fireman

What About It, welcome to the Cafe. We're nearly all TWI-survivors here and even those who aren't survivors have been affected in some way. This is a safe space for you to explore new ideas and you may find your ideas change quite a lot over the next few months. Your opinion will be respected, if you present it respectfully (it's even okay to be angry!). You may find threads on a lot of topics that you have questions about. The search function at the top of the page might help you locate those threads. Useful articles can be accessed via the front page, too. Prepare to be shocked at what you read. Life's great! Confusing, but definitely better out than in. For the moment, have a cup of coffee and relax a while.

sorry wrong location for post

OldSkool - how many people in your Corps group a) started? b) graduated? c) were still with TWI when you left (as far as you know)? d) are still (as far as you know) with TWI today? - this one might be a bit hard to answer, LOL

Sometimes it's easy to BE right...in your actions. But to DO right isn't always so easy. So it's your right of way at the road junction. What do you do? Charge across anyway, and mow down the little old lady with the walking stick? It's your right of way at the next junction. What do you do? Shoot across and get hit by a red-light jumper? Sue him from your hospital bed? Your son went out and got drunk. What do you do? Thrash him halfway to death, in hopes he won't do it again? You find out a stash of drugs in your other son's room. What do you do? Lecture him? Throw him out? Confine him to the home? Your daughter comes home and tells you she's four months pregnant. What do you do? Turn her out into the street? Confine her to the home? Ban her from seeing the father again? Make her marry the father? Your spouse is having an affair. What do you do? Kick him/her out, get a divorce? Sit down together to consider where your marriage is unsatisfactory and whether it's repairable? Some of the alternatives are "justifiable" but they aren't necessarily right. You can "do" all the right things and indeed there are many records in the Bible of where people did the right actions - but their heart was "far from" God. If you're not being loving (however you interpret that), can you even be right, in God's eyes?

Wouldn't that be, God bless you REdundantly ?

Yeah, they kicked me out too. And I'm grateful (now). It was dreadful at the time and for years afterwards. Unlikely, however, that I would have left of my own accord. I'd well and truly burned my bridges and there was nowhere else for me to go (as I thought). Thank God He has bigger and better plans for us all than toilet cleaning, the dish room, grovelling in chicken sh it,and generally wasting the abilities He gave us.

Now this is just promoting someone else's agenda. Why bring Christianity into it? It doesn't need to be there, and it doesn't add anything, except to promote someone else's agenda. It's bringing one aspect of Christianity into an argument, without bringing the whole spectrum of Christianity into it - like our service to fellow men. Did not Christ himself lay aside his individuality? Phil 2:7 But [Christ] made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant... Doesn't sound like too much "individualism" there. ...the belief that it is desirable that men should be free to develop their own individual gifts and bents... Is this a "Christian belief"? (Or is Christian belief in the redemptive power of the resurrection, given to all who believe - not just to individuals, LOL?) Or is it taking the phrase "spiritual gifts" which are for the aid to the congregation, way out of context? So what's his agenda, the author of this quote? The road to the control of others is well-worn and is based on creating fear in, then dependence of, the "controllee." And it's been around as long as civilization. Wierwille probably learned the basics at the hands of his belt-wielding father, from reports elsewhere at the Cafe.

Ca-FART-ic...very funny, unless you're just blowing hot air again... There are ways of saying that are not with words. Who doesn't know That Look that mama gave them when they were a little kid? Or the Blank Face or the Silent Treatment when a disapproved of action was suggested? Or the Shrug that (by interpretation) means "have it your own way; there'll be trouble"? Or the disingenuous comment that means the opposite of what it says? There are many things that TWI never SAID - explicitly - but they said 'em, just the same.