Twinky

Apparently so, but he has set himself up as a real estate salesman, claiming that he has >20 years living in the area implying good knowledge of the housing market in NK. Yeah, right, if you consider trailers as housing.

Only among (ex) Way believers could there be such a huge discussion about the (possible) meanings of two words meaning receive. Not what the average church goer spends a lot of time thinking about. They'd rather just "receive" and "do" (or not) than spend time wondering what somebody 2000 years ago did (or not).

I thought I might post something onto his page - like a link to GSC - but the page has already disappeared, inaccessible. Pity.

Paramilitary type, seems to be ex-SAS. And has written this book: Oops..... A real paramilitary guy? Geer might have competition, LOL. At least when this latest victim escapes from that organisation, he might have some demolition skills to dispose of HQ on a permanent basis. (Oops again, I never said that...)

R&X the book wasn't mid-80s, it was a bit later, late 80s or very early 90s, wasn't it? As to the R&X book - more like, Martindale was teaching his own personal experience. Projecting, reading into, "identifying with." Maybe he was feeling a bit persecuted, got at. Not without justification: Geer had written PoP and slammed the Trustees badly, got them to sign the document "admitting" their "guilt" over VPW's death. LCM had been in his "fog years" stuff. Here he is, the new Prez, and here is this [other] wannabe Geer snapping at his heels. Thinking how VPW pursued the Paul/Timothy image, with VPW/Paul as the leader and LCM as Timothy, and LCM's own teachings on how Timothy was weak and let things slide, can't you just see LCM seeing himself as Timothy ought (in LCM's mind) to have been - bold, strong and fearless, leading the ministry out in victory? Yet being harassed by that horrible usurper James/Geer, who "seemed to be" a leader in Jerusalem/Gartmore? Or maybe LCM was just hero-worshipping VPW. I don't remember reading that bit in the book. I'm glad about that.

Load of rubbish, OS, you don't need to know.

The piggybank's empty, guess I won't be shopping there today. No indicaation of who's behind the site, no About Us page or whatever. I did notice a selection of teachings by Lovely Loy including one called "Doulos Doings" (relevant to a current thread about the meaning of "doulos" and another by him called "Girding your loins" or some such. That gives me the heebie-jeebies, knowing what he was actually doing with his loins at the time... :wacko: (barf).

It may not be much consolation, Goalie, but then again it might be...it wasn't anything aimed at you, nothing personal if you like. It was just part of their normal policy towards kids that were a little different. There are other posters here who had leaders say horrible things to them about how they should handle their special needs kids. TWI leaders having no idea themselves of how to handle matters, they recommended their normal strategy - beat until submissive; if still not responsive (quiet and obedient), throw out. I'm glad your son has the help he needs.

An update on these two mischievous critters. Tuxedo is as easily startled as ever but is quite affectionate and often comes to me when I'm sitting down and wants a fondle. She doesn't run off as readily and can be caught with comparitive ease. I can seize hold of her and lie on the couch and she will snuggle her head right down on my shoulder and occasionally even purr. But she gets off quick if I don't gently hold her. She eats my plants in the garden and is a diligent hunter of ...moths. Crypto is still a scaredy-pants and slinks around, haunches down and looking wary or guilty. She has just got the two of them confined to the house or allowed out only under supervision. Was in my kitchen two days ago and there was a sudden outcry outside and Crypto came skidding in and to the back of the room. Nothing to be seen outside but Mrs Blackbird was screaming with alarm. I went to see what Crypto was agitated about and there she had a half size fully fledged blackbird, opening its mouth but soundless. I retrieved this and took it outside, put it gently on the lawn, and shut the cats in the kitchen. I noticed the baby bird's leg was broken just above the knee but it appeared otherwise undamaged. Mrs B came and bounced around the lawn but though she saw her baby, did not try to feed it and it didn't open its mouth. Later I took it and put it on the flat roof of my neighbour's shed. It wasn't there half an hour later. I don't know if it could fly, or support itself on its one remaining useable leg, or whether I should - cut off (wince) - the dangling bit of leg which would become a nuisance to it (should it survive). So for the time being the girlies are not allowed outside the house except under supervision. I think the next is in my next door neighbour's garden so that means Crypto has now either dared to go outside my garden, or maybe the baby bird was taking a learner flight and landed on the lawn...more likely. Crypto spent the next couple of hours patrolling the area where I'd removed the bird from. She could smell it and wanted it. Tuxy was also quite excited/interested, not so much in the bird but more in whatever Crypto was interested in. I know it was bound to happen some time...but I'd rather it didn't. She needs to tackle something more her size...like those bl00dy woodpigeons that nip the growing points from the brassicas and steal the berries from my soft fruits.

As they think... Sur-prise!!!! BoD, you've got mail!!!!!

Old Skool makes a fair point here. Just as there was to be a commitment from a slave to the master (especially where there is a choice for the slave to go free, leave the master) so the master had commitments to his slaves. These include the right to fair treatment, not to be abused to the point of permanent damage, and for other provisions. Matthew Henry Commentary -first two paragraphs TWI had a great thing about teaching us to be “douloses” or (“douleia” for women) – sold-out bondslaves-servants to God. But then – they put themselves in God’s place, as his spokesman. They made themselves lords over God’s flock. Without ever taking on the responsibilities of the owner of servant-slaves. And also – without ever remembering that the men and women who make up the BoD/BoT and other higher-ups are themselves douloses of the same God. Here is their reward:

Good on you JJ.

I doubt it's right to say people "stuck it out" to be able to get the WoW pin, or anything else, really. I do think people stuck it out because they had made a commitment to do whatever they were doing, and wanted to see that through. TWI taught so much about commitment (mostly about commitment to the ministry that had taught you the word - gag) - about seeing things through that you'd started - about not quitting when the going got rough - and all of that is good stuff and great principles for life. However, the commitment had subtly become shifted from Godly commitment, to a commitment to TWI. And people became misdirected because TWI is so "in the face," so that they placed the wrong focus on the commitment. It's very liberating to understand that walking away from TWI is NOT walking away from God, and in leaving behind a God-denying organization, you may in fact be walking TOWARDS a better life with God.

It's beginning to look as though Mr Trimm, having successfully fought off TWI, has himself been fought off by GSC. He hasn't been around for several days now. Obviously no takers for his flavor of Kool-Aid.

Ha ha, T&O, I thought I'd be a missionary too. And actually, I did do something like that - got myself a job overseas, loved it, joined what was usually a really supportive twig overseas, and from there made it into the Corps. And from there, everything went downhill. Sucked everything I had out of me ... then spat me out, with nothing, no support, no friends...nothing. Well, I've surely learned how to be a minister, a missionary. Or rather, what those people are NOT.

A little out of context, perhaps, but the implications are clear: In other words, consider the circumstances. That means good things AND bad things. Not got enough money to do what you want? Don't start, "believing to receive" what you need whilst you're building. Not got the strength or ability to start some other project? You or your team aren't good enough? Find a different way to deal with your project. Don't disregard the circumstances, and don't disregard superior strength, facilities, etc. Note that word "consulteth." Doesn't do it alone; talks it over with others, who, presumably, will also be aware of the downsides. I'd say these verses are a significant invitation to be aware of our surroundings, everything that's going on, and not to close our eyes to "negatives." God is not after foolhardy followers. And he doesn't expect us to be foolhardy. He gave us brains to think things through. He surrounded us with people who can offer advice based on the circumstances around us. He gave us free will to choose a course of action that was appropriate for us. We can make those negatives in our backgrounds (and we've all got some) into strengths, or learn how to minimise them - but only if we look realistically at them - and seek proper help, wise counsel, in overcoming them. And the source of that help is not limited to pseudo ministers who get "revelation" from God. Run a mile from those, and seek those who have training, experience, and humility to guide.

There's a very good side to "keeping it positive." However, the flip side is refusing to look at things as they are, and being unrealistic about the current situation. The Bible is full of people in desperate situations. I imagine it was hard to keep positive when you were cooking up your kids to eat, being dragged off as a captive to a foreign land, being enslaved, being unfairly imprisoned, etc. In NT times I admire enormously the bravery of the early Christians who KNEW Paul was coming to their towns and cities to arrest them resulting in torture and quite likely death. Yet they stayed around. What, do you think they were thinking positive and had some early warning system that told them that on the road to Damascus, Paul would be enlightened? What about all the early Christians before that trip? OldSkool, the remarkable King David had a simple background, was favored, was then hunted for many years to within an inch of his life. It was a hard and difficult time. But he did not lose his love for God in that time, and the skills he learned during that time set him up to be the best king Israel could have (at least, in his early years of reigning kingship.) God used his skills and abilities (including music) to reach out to others. And for David to simply enjoy. Whatever your background, there is much that you can still draw from it. You had hard times and overcame them. You have something to share with those from other difficult backgrounds. Now just get out there, play your music, and enjoy your talent. Who knows what a great example you can be - just by living your life? Show people how to escape - a poor background, an aimless youth, and bullying legalism in all its forms. You know what NOT to be!

My garden is finally getting going...sort of. I've been rebuilding the path, and the soil from under the new aggregate has been in heaps all over the growing area. It's now bagged into huuuge bags and will be spread on the lawn to raise the level a little, when the new path is laid. So I have managed to plant my runner beans, which are looking lovely, very sturdy, and well rooted. They all took this year, not so many as other years, but doing much better. I have planted peas (not doing too well); these are underplanted with strawberries which are swelling up nicely (must net them soon to keep the woodpigeons away). The autumn raspberries are producing so much stem/plant that they are in danger of swamping that bit of garden - this is their 2nd year, so I should get a reasonable crop (I hope). I started brassicas from seed and they are now pricked out and have started to grow. I have sown lettuce, rocket and beetroot seeds but nothing showing yet. There are some self-set potatoes and they seem to be thriving. They're right where the beans are but hey, they can fight it out between themselves. Meanwhile, last year's leeks are still in the ground and have grown flower stalks - the flowers will be out soon. Should I dig 'em out now, or let 'em seed and use the seed next year? (Might depend on the available space!!) I have been given loads of tomatoes, which will go into gro-bags or planters, not the garden. No swetcorn this year; disappointing last year. No courgettes (yet) this year. Might try and get some plants on Sat from the Farmers Market. My hanging baskets are still not set up. Tomorrow, perhaps. The plants are shrivelling through neglect.

Have a whole heap of fun.

Go for it with passion, OldSkool. Who gave you the talent? So go glorify God, and use what he gave you. Don't bury that talent in the ground ... wait, you already did that. Time to exhume it and get using it. Life is to be lived and enjoyed. Heck, God thinks music is so important that at the time of establishing the rites of the Israelite congregation, he had a whole division of singer-songwriters. TWI put you under a guilt trip about anything that wasn't connected with what they thought was God's will for your life. They are expert in that at least - instilling guilt and self-condemnation. Send it right back where it belongs. Maybe you can post some audio tracks somehow - GS Radio??? (Musack in the Cafe, hey, things get better every day!)

You daft lot, the mantle that is referred to is a gas mantle - after all, we're to be lights of the world, aren't we, or was that just Jesus, and we are salt of the earth or some such? Gas lighting

T&O, I think you have a good point there. It really was much more of a discussion than a sit-still-and-keep-quiet sort of thing. We see the young Jesus in the temple - asking questions of the educated rabbis of the time, seeking their views and opinions. We see the passionate Paul, debating with the Greeks - and they will "hear him again." Go away, think about it, mull it over, ask more questions. Bring to bear their critical thinking skills. I find I myself learn much more when I'm sharing with someone, and have to "defend" my point of view, not that a defence is necessary, rather that it's a more detailed explanation or showing the logic. Others ask questions, and you (I) have to think about what you (I) think you (I) know. It's not "done" with a large congregation (or even a small one!) - why not? Would it become too disorderly? Ingrained fear of church ministers of being challenged? Ingrained submissiveness of congregations - or their lack of thorough Biblical teaching? In my church, the person delivering the sermon also writes a short note of the main points s/he covers and then poses a few questions, maybe 4-6, and these are discussed in the small groups (about 10-15 people) where each person gets to say what they think. It can be a thought-provoking time. My small group and I thought each other's ideas rather bizarre, when I first started going. The way someone might say, "but what about ...?" would point out flaws of TWI teachings, that might have been red-flagged at the time, but there was little time to discuss with others due to the mind-numbing length of sermons. (In that, TWI is not unique; I've been to other church services where the preacher has gone on too long.) 2 For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified. So how much, then, should one relate personal anecdotes - "what God has done for me" - type of thing? Ever? Never? If so, when?

Are you sure the meeting isn't so that everyone on the Cabinet knows that the others haven't been booted out overnight, LOL?

(emphasis as shown in Companion Bible, not sure if this will show as that Gothic script) (bold bit is my emphasis and what I'd like to talk about) I'd welcome a discussion of this, the practical effects of 2:2. I excerpted a little from chapters 1 and 2, but you might like to look at the whole of both chapters before responding. The way TWI taught this, you just spoke about the risen Christ and his accomplishments. You toured people round the epistles. You showed them what the scriptures, particularly the epistles, said – about Christ, about the hearer's status as a (spiritual) son of God (seated in the heavenlies, etc). And what Wayfers say is often said without regard to who the person is that they are speaking, and with little regard for that person's life and the things they may be having to cope with. I meet one or two occasionally. Their mouths are full of scriptures – but their hearts seem devoid of interest in me, my life, what I might need, etc. Neither do they seem able to relate to worldly events and perhaps put a "spiritual perspective" on them (other than "works of the adversary"). I think that has to be wrong teaching. My view is that we aren't to take notice of "endless fables" and genealogies – my influential family is this, my job is that, I've got a doctorate in – blah blah. But not, that we are not to take an interest in people and their lives so far. How on earth can you win anyone to Christ, if you don't have the faintest idea of their circumstances? If you express no concern for that person? Surely then you are in serious danger of being on an almighty ego trip - look at me, how many Bible verses I know!! (Not necessarily: how well I understand those verses.) I think Paul is saying that he's not standing in his own authority, credentials etc (though he does mention these in Phil 3:5). And he is demonstrating by his life and lifestyle how he himself knows the risen Christ. Neither is he trying to "trick them" with enticing words, fancy words, misleading information, twisted scriptures, or preachifying at them. He stands in the authority and strength that was instilled in him on the road to Damascus. Nothing else is worthy, and definitely not his "old" life. Perhaps he is also showing Christ - by what he doesn't say. Paul remained acutely aware of what was going on in the churches he founded, where the disputes arose, where people weren't likeminded, where they were not practicing proper principle. When we look at the risen Christ during the time he remained with the disciples, what was he doing? Hanging out with the disciples – cooking a meal for them, still being their servant, visiting them – opening the scriptures and teaching them so that they really understood – even helping them with their businesses (John 21). 1 Pet 3:15 reminds us that we are always to be ready to give an answer to anyone who asks a reason of the hope that is in us, with meekness and fear [respect]. So clearly the lifestyle there is not one of preachifying either, such that little else is known about the speaker. Because if the person were preachifying so much – there would be no need to even ask the question, never mind give an answer. It would seem strange if Paul did not use different methods, depending on his hearers. If speaking in a synagogue to Jews who were already instructed in the OT, he could expound the scriptures. With the "Greeks" he preached the "unknown God". And in those situations, that would be right, perhaps. There are many such records. But when speaking with individuals or living with them (eg Lydia, Acts 16) - don't you think he might have talked with them on a more personal basis? Discuss.

Rosalie in Levis...