Twinky

Good post, Dot. We are to love others "as ourselves". But first we need to love ourselves! Only later comes laying down our lives for our friends. Being "living sacrifices" does not mean laying down our lives as doormats. We're to be harmless to others, and generous to them. Give to those in need. Not to those who come simply to steal, kill and destroy. AND>>> We are also commanded to be as wise (or wary) as serpents (or snakes). Tread firmly and confidently on the ground, and most snakes will disappear quietly into the undergrowth. From your perspective, perhaps treading firmly and confidently means saying "No!" or "That's enough," or "This is a loan; what arrangements for repayment can you make?" And meaning it. (Mind you, I don't claim to be an expert...still working out the balance for myself! :blush: )

Take it easy and slow, like Socks suggests. But I'd wanna know: >Do you feel loved there? Cared for? Valued? How does that feel...to you? >How do you know leadership cares? How does that feel? >Do you always feel slightly guilty for having done/not done something? Aw, come on, let's go and hang out with some disreputable folks...like Jesus did.

From the blog that George's link above takes you to. But see my links (above) that describe the work that is going on in this historic cemetery, which had fallen into disuse and overgrown-ness; and is now tended by a volunteer group/trust. The Arno's Vale trust doesn't mention the "Muller Foundation", either; and the Muller website doesn't mention tending his grave, nor even where he is buried. Mentions where other family members are buried, though.

Hi Beguiled. You have been ill-treated by TWI and have had a very disturbed life, in so many ways. It would be nice to think it was an isolated incident...but unfortunately, it's the pattern of how TWI screwed everyone over. You may find solace in realizing that it wasn't your family, or you, that was specifically targeted, but it's the modus operandi. You are not at fault. Your parents are not at fault. Your brother is not at fault. You are all victims. Now figure out what to do with yourself. How to live your life from now on. Yes - YOU can do that. Here, we've nearly all been through the same stuff. You will be sad, happy, angry, confused, elated, relieved, and lots of other emotions. Many share what has helped them. As the onion layers of deceit are stripped off, the tears of relief will flow. Welcome!

Not sure why there would be the "family tomb" in the curbed and raised tomb thing photo'd in the blog; and also a headstone as shown on the actual Arno's Vale Cemetery website. The remains can't be buried in two places. There's no evidence of any connection between the two; they don't seem to be adjacent. Hmm. Might investigate that some time. Slightly off topic, but it appears that Muller's work continues, but now in relation to the care of the elderly: The Work of Muller's There's an interesting bit about his life (and two wives) under teh Heritage tab.

You might find this link of interest. Scroll down to the bottom for a pic of Muller's graveSTONE, ie, not what's shown in the earlier link. Yes, the grave was perhaps neglected, but that's because the cemetery itself had become neglected. It's now a well-cared for location and a haven for wildlife because it is relatively undisturbed. Muller's gravestone

Welcome, Cara, nice to have you here. Shocking what you will learn. And with all you learn, surprising how free you will become. Waysider, I fancy that rhubarb pie too, is there another piece? Yum yum.

I don't think they're so much "alpha" males as laugh-a-males. Or laughable males. (Vomit icon anywhere?)

Do tell more about the College Program, HighWay. It'd finished before I got seriously interested in TWI. Sounds like you had a really nice time, if you were free to take a job, and could come and go as you wished. Was it just for a year? How else did it differ from being in rez as Corps? And then you did go Corps...did you think it was going to be just the same? (Though by the time you did that, things might have moved on in intensity at HQ or wherever you were based.)

Okay, complaints on this thread about bugging EOb and/or BRC and who knows where else. What's the evidence for this? Who knows that it actually took place? Anybody here see or listen to the "bugs"? Or is it just suspicion (of the genuine spiritual kind, no doubt) that this took place? I do know that people were encouraged to "spy" on others. To "report back" on each other. Purely, of course, in the interest of "helping" the person spied upon.

This is a more up to date link for Ben Witherington: Ben's new site (Not that I know any more of him than appears on this thread.)

Although a lot of what has been commented on in this thread applies worldwide, I have to say that the air service personnel in the US are soooooo unpleasant that many people I know who do choose to fly will go "the other way round" so as to avoid having to pass via the US. And that's despite getting twice the luggage allowance. If passengers fly via the US, they can take twice as much, weight-wise. For a country that (says it) prides itself on good service, the US air service industry has such a looooong way to go, to match the reality with the hype.

And there was me, thinking you were talking about tap dancing....

Good work, Skyrider, on finding all this stuff. Great thread, this, makes some excellent points. One of those areas left over from PFAL that no-one had opportunity to challenge and probably rarely ever thought about. Yet more "advertising puff."

And another mouse today. That's right after she'd just had a good nosh of Go-Cat.

I've always loved camping and being in a tent. But my experience at RoA was never "tented" in a little tent. Got to spend one RoA in a huge tent (marquee) on a camp bed. And another in some hut kind of thing. (Now what was that? It had bunk beds and slept about 12 people.) Was that one of those Waytels or Corpstels or whatever they were? ************** And I just returned from several nights in a little tent with a good friend. We camped on a refreshingly breezy hillside overlooking an enormous estuary. In the evenings, lounging outside the tent sipping red wine. Before having a lovely hot shower (plenty of hot water) and flopping into bed. Ah, camping....

I don't think that VP taught all of the UL classes - but late 80s, at the time of the PoP paper and all that fallout, a huge number of people left and, as usual, all of any non-standing person's work automatically got deleted. (They wuz puzzest, you know, deluded, can't have their contaminated work available to polute the purity of the remaining believers.) And so (I think) some of the UL classes were quietly forgotten about. I think W@lter Cummins did some stuff and no doubt others, whose names I don't know. None of these tapes or classes was around when I was in rez except a few really old classes by VPW - perhaps the same stuff OldSkool got hold of years later. Interesting that OS seems to have discovered that Romans was a ripoff of yet another class. Why isn't that a surprise??

Welcome to both of you. This is a place where you will definitely start to see things a little differently. You may find your views changing markedly while you're here. You might even think some of us are a little off the wall (blame the waiters, the coffee is strong here). Speaking of which, hey, enjoy a cup of java and a bite of cake.

This is the Biblical version of "sh1t happens": Stuff happens, and it's not always due to any fault of the "recipient" - not their bad believing, their stupid action, their abuse of their bodies... Of course, it all might be as a result of one's own actions, deliberate or otherwise. 2 Tim 2:26 ... And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will. Like fishes are taken in a net, or birds in a snare - sometimes people fall into a trap laid by God's arch enemy. Plenty of stuff about that in Proverbs, and in Ecclesiastes, a book that wasn't high ohn TWI's reading list. Dunno if that's karma, or acknowledging a spiritual battle, or just acknowledging life as we all live it.

Crypto is enjoying life very much now. Today she brought a friend home for lunch. It was a mouse and it was firmly held in her jaws and still moving feebly. I chased her out of the house and she vanished beneath a dense bush in the garden. I don't so much mind her catching mice ... as having to deal with the likely consequences - ie, if she eats prey, at some stage she will get intestinal worms. The problem with that is that I have only ever held this cat twice! In 2-1/2 years! I can't imagine forcing a worm tablet down her throat, nor even squirting Frontline on the back of her neck. I think it doubtful that she will willingly eat a worm tablet or powder. She is canny and of once bitten, twice shy nature - catch her in a place once, and you'll never see her there again. Does anyone have any suggestions? I reckon I'm going to have about three months to figure out a way to to start worming her. I would prefer to live and emerge from the dosing experience with an unbitten and ideally unscratched skin. Meanwhile, Tuxy was interested in this faintly wriggly creature that Crypto had and was wide-eyed with desire to share. Hard luck, Crypto wasn't in sharing mood.

There were quite a lot of strictures in the OT about counting the number of people one was responsible for...or not counting. Off the top of my head, this is the only quote that I can think of, and it's when David had already started a head count of how many people "he" had rule over: but I think there are other scriptures that say that no count was to be taken at all. Counting how many people you "have" on your membership role, etc, is all about ego. How important you are; not how important God is. Yes, there is wisdom in knowing approximately, so that you can plan somewhat for the future; but (as that lovely (cough) "ministry" would say): "it's all about heart. What's the heart behind it?" And if TWI is counting numbers, one thing is certain, it's not because they want to plan to bless them all.

Are you for real, Sunesis??? JMwas there when I was in rez (time of LCM's great rants) and (no idea how this came up) she said she had been a lez but had been healed of that and (big laugh) that's what a finger was for (brandishing her finger). I was grossed out and avoided her ever after.

If it really requires all that much maintenance (still), best thing to do would be to tear it down and leave it to the critters. Sell any particularly good fitting (the gold-plated taps, LOL!), not that the s/hand value would be great. That's better stewardship than throwing good money after bad. But they won't, will they?

If they really wanted to keep up numbers, they could include all those in known splinter groups, like CFFM, CES/STFI, and all those headed up by ex Region coordinators. Some of them stick more or less to Way doctrine and practices, don't they? At least, that's where their roots are. Maybe even include groups overseas, too. Some of those organizations would definitely object, though, thinking they had moved on and away from Way doctrine. (Hey, I'm just trying to think how TWI might spin it.)

I'm sure when I was in rez LCM used to boast about having run a ??branch?? with just a filing box and a table. He was making the point that branch leaders were wanting big offices, computers, fancy gear (in his opinion) and he managed to do it with just minimal stuff. And (he told us) he could go out and do it again if he needed to. Well. Maybe he doesn't need to. Sure as eggs is eggs, the world doesn't need him to, either. Course, with so many records that came to be demanded about fellowship attendees, it'd need to be a mighty big filing box now.